Thread: Oscar cleans up Tito's leftovers again

www.eastsideboxing.com

12.05.06 - By Bryce Wren, photo by David Martin Warr / DKP -- It started in 1994, when Felix Trinidad pounded out a unanimous decision against former multiple weight division champion Hector “Macho” Camacho. Little could the Puerto Rican slugger know that he had began paving the path to over a decade of “follow the leader” between the ropes. Trinidad had shown exactly how to beat Hector, -who was starting to decline as a fighter by that time- and a certain “golden boy” took note. It would be three years later that Oscar De la Hoya would finally feel comfortable in the knowledge that Macho Man’s speed and reflexes had all but perished, to finally fight Camacho. Much like Trinidad, Oscar was on offense and pressed Camacho. The unanimous decision was equally as one sided.

Also in 1994, Trinidad fought two other very talented former perennial contenders in Navajoa Mexico’s Yuri Boy Campas, and Detroit Cities, Oba Carr. Trinidad dominated and stopped them both, in the 4th and 8th rounds respectively.

In the middle of 1999, Oscar would get up the nerve to challenge Oba. Remarkably, it would take a lot more of a decline in Campas before Oscar would challenge the geriatric power puncher. De la Hoya waited for Yuri Boy to suffer four more stoppage losses and several more wearing wars before he would fight Campas. Unbelievably, even though many of Trinidad’s opponents were said to have been “ruined” by him, Tito had managed to stop both Carr and Campas sooner than the “Golden Boy” could. Taking four and eight rounds for Tito to seven and eleven for Oscar. These three fights would not be a short trend. De la Hoya would continue eating from Trinidad’s scraps for another ten years.

Fernando Vargas is a prime example of a talented fighter that was “ruined” by Felix. Maybe “ruined” is a bit harsh. He was “damaged”, anyway. He took an enormous beating by Trinidad, and even with a potential grudge fight with the Ferocious One, Oscar had to wait for a few tune ups from Vargas to ensure he was “shot” before taking him on in 2002.

Now clearly Oscar forgot the plan when he challenged former middleweight king Bernard Hopkins in 2004. I mean yes, this was a former Trinidad opponent, but Oscar should know, “you don’t fight the guys who win!”. Oscar learned the hard way, just as it was a given that any man Trinidad could walk through, could probably be out pointed or stopped later in a fight by De la Hoya, so did it go that anyone talented and powerful enough to beat Trinidad by an all night beat down could probably also stop Oscar earlier, with a lot less punishment. As if Tito’s victory decision over Oscar didn’t punctuate his superiority over his talented East Los Angeles rival, this just seemed to add more and more credence to the obvious conclusion. Trinidad was just better.

This past Saturday was just another chapter in the boxing version of “Beaches” with Oscar following Trinidad around singing “You are the wind beneath my wings”. Trinidad looked incredible during his first comeback fight in 2004 against tough slugger Ricardo Mayorga. Mayorga let his macho attitude get the best of him against Tito, and proved to be a fool by sticking out his chin for Tito to test. Trinidad obliged and hit Mayorga with two incredibly hard left hooks which the Nicaraguan never recovered from. It was impressive. It was also no surprise when the HBO crew aptly pointed out time and time again that the Golden Boy, Oscar De la Hoya, once again, was borrowing straight from the book, Felix Trinidad’s game plan for beating Ricardo Mayorga. Indeed, Everything from the way Oscar held his hands, to the way he threw his left hook was nearly a mirror image of what Felix had done in 2004.

Yes, it seems Oscar is completely obsessed with Trinidad. Hell, he even moved to Puerto Rico, Trinidad’s beloved homeland. I think a rematch, even now that Trinidad has re-re-retired would probably still be the largest payday for both men. I’m not sure that Oscar would have done any better against the Winky Wright that Tito was schooled by. So based on their last top level opponents, Hopkins and Mayorga, it seems that Trinidad is at least on par with the Golden Boy. Lets call for the rematch. I think both of them feel like there is unfinished business. Oscar isn’t capable of running for six rounds anymore, so we are guaranteed to see more fireworks. What does anybody have to lose? Let’s get it on!

I dont agree with some points in this article....Oscar obsessed with Tito anyone? Probably not. But the one thig that does strike me is the number of opponents they have in common and for sure Trinidad does beat them and at some point later Oscar has done the same, often times more effectively. Can we attribute this to Tito making them damaged goods? Who's to say...

Regardless, there is a lot of common anscestry between Tito and Oscar and there is also Tito's contoversial win over Oscar.....perhaps it should be written that Oscar and Tito should get it on one more time and answer for their last fight once and for all....

Then both fighters can retire from boxing and enjoy living in each others neighborhoods living upon the riches they reaped in the ring....

good article, eventhough its conclusions are a little too strong. anyway Trinidad seems to be the cyclists or the marathon runner that runs infront and sheilds the runner that's close behind from the strong winds

you can't deny the fact that it was only after Trinidad fought and beat Vargas and Mayorga and lost to Hopkins that ODH went on and duplicated the same feat. He KOED both Vargas and Mayorga and got KOED and beaten by Hopkins.

But Trinidad should be given the edge because he's a trail blazer. That ridiculous ambition of cleaning up the Junior Middleweight, Middleweight and then to face Jones at Supermiddleweight was outstanding and had me glued to my seat from the 2001-2002 boxing years.

It should also be noted that Trinidad took a much worse beating from a Hopkins that was probably close to his best.


DLH fought a Hopkins that was 3 years older - his skills had eroded somewhat - and DLH still lay down the minute things got a rough.

Tito took a pounding for 12 and almost heard the final bell - Oscar quit when he'd had enough.

CC to miles, for an excellent article... and to bixmix and greig for their insightful posts. I've posted pretty much the same point of view several times on this forum, only to get raked over the coals by overzealous Oscar fans who believe I'm dissing their guy. I even went on record congratulating Oscar on his dominant win over Mayorga, but I still get bombarded by the Oscar fanatics.

Facts are facts. Oscar HAS in fact waited for very timely moments in order to feast on former Trinidad victims. The article speaks eloquently and with facts. Too bad I can't write as well.

In no way does the article diminish from Oscar's prowess as a fighter. It only strives to give Tito his just due, something MANY Oscar fans on this forum seem reluctant to do. Why? Because Tito's not a pretty face who can speak English and flash a million dollar smile? That's hardly fair, is it?

Anyway, thanks again for pointing out what some of us have known for quite some time. It's about time an article such as this was published.

I never wanted to believe it, but maybe just maybe Tito did dent Mayorga's chin. No way he shoulda went down so easy against Oscar, even though he was countered. Or maybe Oscar was just more accurate than Tito. Either way accuracy and exhaustion hurt Mayorga badly. Sad watching it again, but Mayorga got his licks in, it wasn't as depressing or one-sided as the first time I watched it. Still Mayorga failed, it's a shame.

Gee, I'm sorry. But I gotta bring this thread back up to the front. I've caught SO MUCH HELL from the Oscar fanatics, I just wanted them to see another point of view. If you take the time to read it and analyze it, it makes sense.

Again, it's not the objective boxing fans who also happen to be Oscar fans that I have a problem with.... it's the blind fanatics who cannot see beyond the nose on their face and have always continued to "Tito bash."

Anyway, it's a HELL of an interesting spin on things, and an opinion I've stated many times myself. But since I go by "Titofan", that automatically rubs some people the wrong way.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Gee, I'm sorry. But I gotta bring this thread back up to the front. I've caught SO MUCH HELL from the Oscar fanatics, I just wanted them to see another point of view. If you take the time to read it and analyze it, it makes sense.

Again, it's not the objective boxing fans who also happen to be Oscar fans that I have a problem with.... it's the blind fanatics who cannot see beyond the nose on their face and have always continued to "Tito bash."

Anyway, it's a HELL of an interesting spin on things, and an opinion I've stated many times myself. But since I go by "Titofan", that automatically rubs some people the wrong way.

Ask anyone on here. I'mma a big Tito fan, but INO Tito would get KO'd this time around

Originally Posted by NorthSideX4

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Gee, I'm sorry. But I gotta bring this thread back up to the front. I've caught SO MUCH HELL from the Oscar fanatics, I just wanted them to see another point of view. If you take the time to read it and analyze it, it makes sense.

Again, it's not the objective boxing fans who also happen to be Oscar fans that I have a problem with.... it's the blind fanatics who cannot see beyond the nose on their face and have always continued to "Tito bash."

Anyway, it's a HELL of an interesting spin on things, and an opinion I've stated many times myself. But since I go by "Titofan", that automatically rubs some people the wrong way.

Ask anyone on here. I'mma a big Tito fan, but INO Tito would get KO'd this time around

Fair enough. I can respect that opinion. I myself think it would depend on Tito's mental state coming into the fight, but IMO Tito back at 100% would beat Oscar at 100%, especially at anything north of 147.

Yeah, ring rust doesn't seem to have affected ODH as much as Tito. But I will be quite honest Mayorga is deceptive, he can be outboxed easy and seemingly outclassed but there aren't other fighters that will be like that other fighter box and use defense. Mayorga uses power and intimidation that can have disasterous effects though

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by NorthSideX4

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Gee, I'm sorry. But I gotta bring this thread back up to the front. I've caught SO MUCH HELL from the Oscar fanatics, I just wanted them to see another point of view. If you take the time to read it and analyze it, it makes sense.

Again, it's not the objective boxing fans who also happen to be Oscar fans that I have a problem with.... it's the blind fanatics who cannot see beyond the nose on their face and have always continued to "Tito bash."

Anyway, it's a HELL of an interesting spin on things, and an opinion I've stated many times myself. But since I go by "Titofan", that automatically rubs some people the wrong way.

Ask anyone on here. I'mma a big Tito fan, but INO Tito would get KO'd this time around

Fair enough. I can respect that opinion. I myself think it would depend on Tito's mental state coming into the fight, but IMO Tito back at 100% would beat Oscar at 100%, especially at anything north of 147.

The reason I believe this is becuz it has showed that Tito is very one-denemsional & relies solely on his power & that wouldn't effect Oscar, but Oscar's power WOULD effect Tito

I thought ODH won the first fight but I think he had the power to hurt Tito but for some reason he decided to run around like a dummy

Originally Posted by NorthSideX4

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by NorthSideX4

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Gee, I'm sorry. But I gotta bring this thread back up to the front. I've caught SO MUCH HELL from the Oscar fanatics, I just wanted them to see another point of view. If you take the time to read it and analyze it, it makes sense.

Again, it's not the objective boxing fans who also happen to be Oscar fans that I have a problem with.... it's the blind fanatics who cannot see beyond the nose on their face and have always continued to "Tito bash."

Anyway, it's a HELL of an interesting spin on things, and an opinion I've stated many times myself. But since I go by "Titofan", that automatically rubs some people the wrong way.

Ask anyone on here. I'mma a big Tito fan, but INO Tito would get KO'd this time around

Fair enough. I can respect that opinion. I myself think it would depend on Tito's mental state coming into the fight, but IMO Tito back at 100% would beat Oscar at 100%, especially at anything north of 147.

The reason I believe this is becuz it has showed that Tito is very one-denemsional & relies solely on his power & that wouldn't effect Oscar, but Oscar's power WOULD effect Tito

That "one-dimensional" crap is getting old. For the 1000th time, you don't win over 40 fights against some elite fighters (including some very good boxers) by being one-dimensional. And just WHY wouldn't Tito's power affect Oscar? Has Oscar developed a higher tolerance to power punches with age? 'Cause he certainly felt the power in their first fight. Why else would he run after getting tagged late in the fight? As for Oscar's power, yes... if he caught Tito flush with a good counter, Tito would definitely feel the effects. That's just common sense. But I don't think the outcome would be the given Oscar victory many people think it would be.

But....... whether Oscar or Tito would win a rematch is entirely speculation and can be argued till the end of time.

What I'd like to know is..... what about this guy's article on Oscar feeding off of Tito's table scraps?

Originally Posted by miles

www.eastsideboxing.com

12.05.06 - By Bryce Wren, photo by David Martin Warr / DKP -- It started in 1994, when Felix Trinidad pounded out a unanimous decision against former multiple weight division champion Hector “Macho” Camacho. Little could the Puerto Rican slugger know that he had began paving the path to over a decade of “follow the leader” between the ropes. Trinidad had shown exactly how to beat Hector, -who was starting to decline as a fighter by that time- and a certain “golden boy” took note. It would be three years later that Oscar De la Hoya would finally feel comfortable in the knowledge that Macho Man’s speed and reflexes had all but perished, to finally fight Camacho. Much like Trinidad, Oscar was on offense and pressed Camacho. The unanimous decision was equally as one sided.

Also in 1994, Trinidad fought two other very talented former perennial contenders in Navajoa Mexico’s Yuri Boy Campas, and Detroit Cities, Oba Carr. Trinidad dominated and stopped them both, in the 4th and 8th rounds respectively.

In the middle of 1999, Oscar would get up the nerve to challenge Oba. Remarkably, it would take a lot more of a decline in Campas before Oscar would challenge the geriatric power puncher. De la Hoya waited for Yuri Boy to suffer four more stoppage losses and several more wearing wars before he would fight Campas. Unbelievably, even though many of Trinidad’s opponents were said to have been “ruined” by him, Tito had managed to stop both Carr and Campas sooner than the “Golden Boy” could. Taking four and eight rounds for Tito to seven and eleven for Oscar. These three fights would not be a short trend. De la Hoya would continue eating from Trinidad’s scraps for another ten years.

Fernando Vargas is a prime example of a talented fighter that was “ruined” by Felix. Maybe “ruined” is a bit harsh. He was “damaged”, anyway. He took an enormous beating by Trinidad, and even with a potential grudge fight with the Ferocious One, Oscar had to wait for a few tune ups from Vargas to ensure he was “shot” before taking him on in 2002.

Now clearly Oscar forgot the plan when he challenged former middleweight king Bernard Hopkins in 2004. I mean yes, this was a former Trinidad opponent, but Oscar should know, “you don’t fight the guys who win!”. Oscar learned the hard way, just as it was a given that any man Trinidad could walk through, could probably be out pointed or stopped later in a fight by De la Hoya, so did it go that anyone talented and powerful enough to beat Trinidad by an all night beat down could probably also stop Oscar earlier, with a lot less punishment. As if Tito’s victory decision over Oscar didn’t punctuate his superiority over his talented East Los Angeles rival, this just seemed to add more and more credence to the obvious conclusion. Trinidad was just better.

This past Saturday was just another chapter in the boxing version of “Beaches” with Oscar following Trinidad around singing “You are the wind beneath my wings”. Trinidad looked incredible during his first comeback fight in 2004 against tough slugger Ricardo Mayorga. Mayorga let his macho attitude get the best of him against Tito, and proved to be a fool by sticking out his chin for Tito to test. Trinidad obliged and hit Mayorga with two incredibly hard left hooks which the Nicaraguan never recovered from. It was impressive. It was also no surprise when the HBO crew aptly pointed out time and time again that the Golden Boy, Oscar De la Hoya, once again, was borrowing straight from the book, Felix Trinidad’s game plan for beating Ricardo Mayorga. Indeed, Everything from the way Oscar held his hands, to the way he threw his left hook was nearly a mirror image of what Felix had done in 2004.

Yes, it seems Oscar is completely obsessed with Trinidad. Hell, he even moved to Puerto Rico, Trinidad’s beloved homeland. I think a rematch, even now that Trinidad has re-re-retired would probably still be the largest payday for both men. I’m not sure that Oscar would have done any better against the Winky Wright that Tito was schooled by. So based on their last top level opponents, Hopkins and Mayorga, it seems that Trinidad is at least on par with the Golden Boy. Lets call for the rematch. I think both of them feel like there is unfinished business. Oscar isn’t capable of running for six rounds anymore, so we are guaranteed to see more fireworks. What does anybody have to lose? Let’s get it on!

Just some names and dates to back up Wren's very entertaining and insightful article:

Mayorga: TKO-8 by Tito (Oct 04)......... TKO-6 by Oscar (May 06)
Vargas: TKO-12 by Tito (Dec 00)........TKO-11 by Oscar (Sept 02)
Carr: TKO-8 by Tito (Dec 94).........TKO-11 by Oscar (May 99)
Campas: TKO-4 by Tito (Sept 94)........TKO-7 by Oscar (May 03)

As an interesting sidenote, Vargas, Carr, and Campas were all undefeated and on the rise when beaten by Tito. And as usual, Oscar waited until he felt he could safely take them, before getting into the ring with them. But Oscar walks on water, while Tito's one-dimensional. Give me a fooking break!!