Thread: Joe Calzaghe or James Toney at SuperMiddleweight

Alright who Takes This fight in there primes at Supermiddleweight and Why?

I like James Power at SuperMiddleweight and his defense is legendary a real hard as nails throwback fighter then you got Joe Calzaghe who is a punching machine who is tough as well.

I gotta go with James on this one(not cause I am American Either) I just think his smarts and defense with superb boxing skills a good power would break Joe down over the long haul

Yep James Toney was the only fighter I think who could rival Bernard in the defense/crafty category. THe young and in shape James Toney

I reckon Calzaghe would outpoint him.

Toneys 'prime' at supermiddleweight wasn't that great, losses to Roy Jones and Montell Griffin, a draw with an ancient McCallum.

Toney never had the heart or dedication at middleweight.

Calzaghe UD.

Calzaghe... and as a SM Toney's defence wasn't all that... look how he 'coped' with Roy Jones...

Calzaghe UD.

Styles. Calzaghe takes this.

Originally Posted by bilbo

I reckon Calzaghe would outpoint him.

Toneys 'prime' at supermiddleweight wasn't that great, losses to Roy Jones and Montell Griffin, a draw with an ancient McCallum.

Toney never had the heart or dedication at middleweight.

Calzaghe UD.

The draw against McCallum was at middleweight, and the losses to Griffin were at Light Heavy.

I think this fight would wind up looking like Jirov-Toney. Calzaghe throws high volume, works hard throughout, but James' defense and counter-punching ability is such that he is bound to land at a brilliant connect-percentage, and tire the other guy out with his slipping and blocking.

Plus of course, at super-middle Toney was dazzling - his best performance ever was there (vs. Iran Barkley) and if that Toney fights Joe, he would be just as fast, and quite a bit more technically proficient.

Lights Out wins this one, folks.

Originally Posted by The_Mac10

Originally Posted by bilbo

I reckon Calzaghe would outpoint him.

Toneys 'prime' at supermiddleweight wasn't that great, losses to Roy Jones and Montell Griffin, a draw with an ancient McCallum.

Toney never had the heart or dedication at middleweight.

Calzaghe UD.

The draw against McCallum was at middleweight, and the losses to Griffin were at Light Heavy.

I think this fight would wind up looking like Jirov-Toney. Calzaghe throws high volume, works hard throughout, but James' defense and counter-punching ability is such that he is bound to land at a brilliant connect-percentage, and tire the other guy out with his slipping and blocking.

Plus of course, at super-middle Toney was dazzling - his best performance ever was there (vs. Iran Barkley) and if that Toney fights Joe, he would be just as fast, and quite a bit more technically proficient.

Lights Out wins this one, folks.

Thats what I'm Talking bout

Originally Posted by The_Mac10

Originally Posted by bilbo

I reckon Calzaghe would outpoint him.

Toneys 'prime' at supermiddleweight wasn't that great, losses to Roy Jones and Montell Griffin, a draw with an ancient McCallum.

Toney never had the heart or dedication at middleweight.

Calzaghe UD.

The draw against McCallum was at middleweight, and the losses to Griffin were at Light Heavy.

I think this fight would wind up looking like Jirov-Toney. Calzaghe throws high volume, works hard throughout, but James' defense and counter-punching ability is such that he is bound to land at a brilliant connect-percentage, and tire the other guy out with his slipping and blocking.

Plus of course, at super-middle Toney was dazzling - his best performance ever was there (vs. Iran Barkley) and if that Toney fights Joe, he would be just as fast, and quite a bit more technically proficient.

Lights Out wins this one, folks.

Iran Barkely was never that hot truth be told. Knocked out in 1 round by a Nigel Benn who had been up all night snorting cocaine the night before and being outpointed and dropped by ancient lightweight Roberto Duran are black spots on his record that suggest to me at least that Calzaghe would have destroyed Barkely more emphatically than Toney.

Toney just was not active enough at middleweight, he struggled to make the weight and had little discipline. Calzaghe's workrate would be too much for him.

Minchael Nunn was kicking Toney's a** until he slowed down and got caught, and Calzaghe has a better chin, and more stamina than Nunn.

Calzaghe UD


Oh and Toney was not the skilful masterful defensive boxer he is today whilst at middleweight. I remember watching the Nunn fight, and the consensu before hand was that Toney would be too one dimensional to beat Nunn, and that is the way it looked for about 7 or 8 rounds.

Still, tough as nails, seemingly infatiguable and a great finisher in the final rounds Toney would be a handful for anybody, but I think the cream at middleweight back then could beat him over the distance, Hopkins, Eubank, and Calzaghe (although I mean Calzaghe now not 15 years ago)

i like james toney but i think calzaghe is too fast for him. calzaghe is the main boy

I wasn't trying to convince you that Barkley was some glowering name on Toney's record. My point was how James' looked.

Toneys allround ability was never more on display than in that fight. Combination punching, speed, power, workrate, stamina, chin. Everything was firing. Remember, we're talking prime-for-prime here, so I would say it is that version of James who goes in against Joe in this mythical match-up. Therefore your points about Toney struggling at middleweight, and in his fight with Michael Nunn (which, on paper, Toney should have lost, as Nunn was a superb veteran and James was making a huge leap up in quality) are made redundant, so spare us.

True, Benn mugged Barkley. I've not watched that one in a while, but I recall the stoppage being a bit premature. Either way, Toney didn't go in to destroy Iran in a round, he went in to show the world he was the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world - and after such a magnificent display, few argued.

Why, let me ask, do you think Nunn 'slowed down'? Because of TONEY. Because of the Ann Arbour mans constant pressure, determination and hunting him down. Toney's gameplan was to take it late. Between rounds if you recall Toney was telling Bill Miller "He's tiring, he's breathing like a freight train, I'm going to take him out" and he made good on it. Besides, Nunn is a different fighter from Calzaghe. And the argument is ridiculous anyway, because as I said that was Toney's first fight at world title level, he was green, and up against a superstar-in-the-making. Plus it was at a weight he often struggled at. We're talking PRIME, super-middleweight James here, boss.

Calzaghe's style is such that he comes forward - he throws hundreds of punching, he walks in, he backs off, he surveys, he comes ploughing in again. He has terrific handspeed and sharpness. But Toney very very rarely gets hit with two shots in a row - he is a master craftsman. And don't doubt his chin.

Over twelve rounds, considering Toneys build-in clock where he often does his best work late (though in all truthness, the Toney who fought Iran would beat Calzaghe at any time in the round) and considering Calzaghe's balls-to-the-wall approach he's playing into James' hands. When have you ever seen a fighter come forward vs. Toney and win? Jones pot-shotted him, Griffin caught him at two of his worst stages (and I still had James winning the first fight) and 'boxed' - aggressive fighters simply don't beat James. You wont get many better aggressive fighters than Jirov, and incidently McCallum, who although a brilliant boxer, did take the role as aggressor for much of their fights, and it suited Toney down to a tee.

Be a counter-punching fest.

Toney UD

Originally Posted by jtrock

Alright who Takes This fight in there primes at Supermiddleweight and Why?

I like James Power at SuperMiddleweight and his defense is legendary a real hard as nails throwback fighter then you got Joe Calzaghe who is a punching machine who is tough as well.

I gotta go with James on this one(not cause I am American Either) I just think his smarts and defense with superb boxing skills a good power would break Joe down over the long haul

I think JT pulls a "Lights Out" against Joe C......Toney's power was almost unequalled at that weight.....and he has tremdous boxing skills to go with it....those that want to bring up the RJJ fight must not realize that at that time in his career RJJ whips anybody at 168 period....and Toney whips everybody else.......

Originally Posted by bigragu

Originally Posted by jtrock

Alright who Takes This fight in there primes at Supermiddleweight and Why?

I like James Power at SuperMiddleweight and his defense is legendary a real hard as nails throwback fighter then you got Joe Calzaghe who is a punching machine who is tough as well.

I gotta go with James on this one(not cause I am American Either) I just think his smarts and defense with superb boxing skills a good power would break Joe down over the long haul

I think JT pulls a "Lights Out" against Joe C......Toney's power was almost unequalled at that weight.....and he has tremdous boxing skills to go with it....those that want to bring up the RJJ fight must not realize that at that time in his career RJJ whips anybody at 168 period....and Toney whips everybody else.......

Plus of course Toney had to lose 48Lbs in six weeks, which didn't help.

Originally Posted by The_Mac10

I wasn't trying to convince you that Barkley was some glowering name on Toney's record. My point was how James' looked.

Toneys allround ability was never more on display than in that fight. Combination punching, speed, power, workrate, stamina, chin. Everything was firing. Remember, we're talking prime-for-prime here, so I would say it is that version of James who goes in against Joe in this mythical match-up. Therefore your points about Toney struggling at middleweight, and in his fight with Michael Nunn (which, on paper, Toney should have lost, as Nunn was a superb veteran and James was making a huge leap up in quality) are made redundant, so spare us.

True, Benn mugged Barkley. I've not watched that one in a while, but I recall the stoppage being a bit premature. Either way, Toney didn't go in to destroy Iran in a round, he went in to show the world he was the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world - and after such a magnificent display, few argued.

Why, let me ask, do you think Nunn 'slowed down'? Because of TONEY. Because of the Ann Arbour mans constant pressure, determination and hunting him down. Toney's gameplan was to take it late. Between rounds if you recall Toney was telling Bill Miller "He's tiring, he's breathing like a freight train, I'm going to take him out" and he made good on it. Besides, Nunn is a different fighter from Calzaghe. And the argument is ridiculous anyway, because as I said that was Toney's first fight at world title level, he was green, and up against a superstar-in-the-making. Plus it was at a weight he often struggled at. We're talking PRIME, super-middleweight James here, boss.

Calzaghe's style is such that he comes forward - he throws hundreds of punching, he walks in, he backs off, he surveys, he comes ploughing in again. He has terrific handspeed and sharpness. But Toney very very rarely gets hit with two shots in a row - he is a master craftsman. And don't doubt his chin.

Over twelve rounds, considering Toneys build-in clock where he often does his best work late (though in all truthness, the Toney who fought Iran would beat Calzaghe at any time in the round) and considering Calzaghe's balls-to-the-wall approach he's playing into James' hands. When have you ever seen a fighter come forward vs. Toney and win? Jones pot-shotted him, Griffin caught him at two of his worst stages (and I still had James winning the first fight) and 'boxed' - aggressive fighters simply don't beat James. You wont get many better aggressive fighters than Jirov, and incidently McCallum, who although a brilliant boxer, did take the role as aggressor for much of their fights, and it suited Toney down to a tee.

Be a counter-punching fest.

Toney UD

Hey I ain't hating on the man, check my avatar he's my favourite non British fighter!

I just think at middleweight he never had the discipline to truly shine, hence his move up through the weights.

Great fighter though, one of the top 5 of the past 15 years imo, just he ain't beating Calzaghe at supermiddleweight.

Now 175 lb on the other hand..........................

Originally Posted by bilbo

I reckon Calzaghe would outpoint him.

Toneys 'prime' at supermiddleweight wasn't that great, losses to Roy Jones and Montell Griffin, a draw with an ancient McCallum.

Toney never had the heart or dedication at middleweight.

Calzaghe UD.

As someone else stated, the losses to Griffin came at LH and the McCallum fight was at MW. Also there is absolutely no shame in losing to a prime Roy at SMW. Roy would have KO'd Calzaghe. Just as I feel Toney probably would have. Toney hit nearly as hard as Lacy at Super Middle and was a master defensive fighter. Calzaghe would probably win some rounds simply by being active at times, but would suffer a late TKO, or 116-112 loss IMO.

People are on here like Calzaghe is the best thing since sliced bread when he did have a great performance against Jeff Lacy but that is about it!

Toney would not only make him look bad, but KO his azz before the 10th