Re: Is Gatti a worthy candidate for the Hall of Fame?
Continued...
The IBHoF continues to exist on the strength of the business it does for and during it's annual induction weekend and, naturally, fans are more likely to travel to see the induction of living fighters than a procession of posthumous awards. So, the reality is that Canastota will continue with their current policy of inducting fighters year in, year out.
"I think the likelihood is that Arturo will be inducted into the Canastota Hall of Fame," Hauser said. "Regardless that he was knocked out by Baldomir there are those who believe that he already deserved recognition on the basis of the intangibles I mentioned. And, of course, Gatti hasn't retired yet. If he beats Ricky Hatton (a fight which may yet happen) he will enhance his chances just as if he fights again and displays an uncharacteristic lack of heart - who I don't think will happen - that would diminish his chances."
Likely to refuse to vote if and when Gatti's name appears on an IBHoF ballot, Hauser's opinion is academic here. However, unlike Hauser, Tim Smith does use his Hall of Fame vote.
But he won't be using it to vote Gatti.
Smith began: "I love Arturo Gatti. He's an exciting fighter, he's a courageous fighter and I just love him. But regardless of whether Arturo fights again, or regardless of whether he'd beaten Baldomir or not, he doesn't deserve inclusion in the Hall of Fame. He is a tremendous ticket-seller and TV draw, but that isn't and shouldn't be the criteria for getting in. While he's won world titles, he's never being the dominant fighter in any division and he's never beaten a top class world fighter.
"Going from being a title holder at 130 and then, years later, winning a title at 140lbs is an achievement but you have to look closely at the guys he took those titles off (Tracy Harris Patterson and Gianluca Branco)."
As Hauser noted, there is no definitive criteria for induction to the Canastota institution, voters are free to invent and use their own and be as stringent or as lax as they want. But candidates have to get by a particularly hardy criterion if they are to receive Smith's vote.
"The criteria I use before voting for anyone to be put in the Hall of Fame is 'Which (existing) Hall of Famer in the same division would I take out to make room'. To me, that's my criteria that I have in mind when I look at the names on the ballot each year. I also think 'Could this guy have beaten a Roberto Duran, or a Ray Robinson or a Ray Leonard' and I don't think you could argue that Arturo would have been competitive there."
However, Smith added: "Arturo won't get my vote but he may get in. And regardless of whether he does or doesn't, he'll be remembered as both a tremendous attraction and an incredibly exciting fighter."
Boxing historian Randy Roberts is similarly both a fan of 'Thunder', but still lukewarm to him entering the Hall of Fame. Roberts: "I really like Gatti, he's been one of the most exciting fighters in a long, long time but I just don't think he has a credential as a surefire Hall of Famer. The centerpiece of his career was the Ward trilogy; and splitting fights with a Micky Ward and losing to Ivan Robinson is not what you'd expect from a 'great' of the ring.
"But he has given everything of himself to boxing, and in terms of excitement and entertainment he has a case to being a Hall of Famer, similar to Carmen Basilio (former world welterweight and middleweight champ from the 50s who is actually from Canastota). But where Basilio had wins over a Ray Robinson and others it seems like when Gatti moved up in class to fight a really top level fighter he was outclassed. Even against a good boxer with skills like Ivan Robinson, he gets beat. It is very difficult to come up with any Hall of Fame level victories on Gatti's record."
Roberts added: "If we're going to admit fighters on the basis of blood and guts, fighting back with a broken hand, fighting with everything you've got, popularity, number of exciting fights, then Gatti belongs in. Gatti brings something special, and you have to recognize that. But if we take all of that out and just look at how 'great' of a fighter he has been, then, no, he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame."
"But," Roberts adds, "If he got in I won't mind one bit because I just love Arturo Gatti."
A newcomer to boxing writing ('discovered' by SecondsOut), Matt Wells is not yet a full member of the BWAA. However, the 29-year-old will be by the time Gatti is HoF eligible. And Wells has already more or less decided that his fellow Canadian deserves to be remembered as a great fighter.
"It's a tough question," Wells began. "But I think Gatti will get into the HoF, because so many fighters do. You know, a fight career is all about legacy. If you carve out a good one, you should get in. Gatti didn't put together a long title run like a lot of other top fighters, but he still put together so many memorable performances and that's worth remembering and celebrating, too.
"There are a lot of guys who win titles and defend them for a while, but don't really leave an impression all that much. The Mandfredy and Robinson losses were when Gatti was in his hard partying days. You know for sure Mike Tyson will get in, and Tyson did less than Gatti did. I know Tyson became undisputed champion, but his appeal is built so much on his style and the excitement factor, just like Gatti. You have just as hard a time naming three pivotal Tyson victories as I would Gatti victories."
Wells adds: "And Gatti has beaten good fighters. Ruelas and Patterson and Rodriguez weren't the pound-for-pound best challenges in the world, but Gatti did well to beat them."
At least Matt's nod gets Gatti on the scoreboard with the SecondsOut selectors.
Personally, I have mixed feelings regarding Gatti's HoF credentials and, like some of my colleagues, believe that 'Thunder' has unique credentials for inclusion. Gatti v Ward may have been, in the words of one particularly sharp penned critic, 'the Ali v Frazier of club fights' but the term 'Gatti/Ward' has become common coinage for fans to describe exciting bouts. To a great many fans, Gatti v Ward is as good as it gets those views shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
While sharing Tom Hauser's concerns regarding the hordes of borderline - at best - 'greats' who are already in the HoF, put simply, the boxers already enshrined in Canastota aren't coming back out. And, given that reality, I personally chose to adopt a 'bottom up' criteria as opposed to the more 'top down' criterion favoured by Hauser and Smith in particular.
When readers write in to SecondsOut's regular 'Ask the Editors' feature enquiring whether I believe Fighter X, Y or Z belongs in Canastota, my personal shorthand reference will forever be Barry McGuigan.
Ulsterman McGuigan was a fine featherweight in the mid-1980s, defeating the exceptional, if ageing, Eusebio Pedroza to annex the WBA title in 1985. McGuigan would make two successful defences against two decent contenders before getting knocked out by the average Steve Cruz, who promptly lost the belt in first defense and never held championship gold again.
And neither did McGuigan, who was hacked to bits and retired by Jim McDonnell three fights later. That is not a career comparable with Hopkins or De La Hoya - much less Louis, Robinson, Ali or Leonard - but that's exactly what is implied by McGuigan's 2004 enshrinement
And yet, perhaps because of his fine work in attempting to represent both the Protestant and Catholic Irish, perhaps because he became an outstanding boxing commentator in retirement, McGuigan was given a Hall of Fame ring in 2005.
Ask any fight fan outside of Ireland who was the better fighter, McGuigan or Gatti, and you'll probably get a funny look before hearing Thunder's name in the affirmative.
For me, if McGuigan is in, you can't leave Gatti out.
Finally, I would point out that history is something which is created everyday and in the rear-view mirror of nostalgia, everything is magnified. Boxing fans in 20, 50 and 100 years time will be watching footage of Arturo Gatti fights -of that I am sure.
And, when they do, they'll assume that Gatti is already in the Hall of Fame.
Never beg a 40 dollar hooker...specially after she's just turned down your mom's credit card!!
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