Thread: marvin hagler vs roy jones: who would have won and why?

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

Marvin was relentless and always busy and working. He was never just sitting there with the exception of the Duran fight where he expected an aggressive Duran. That was his only glitch in all his fights. Duran was just a fighter he never expected to fight. But I think that Marvin had a 4th gear and usually fought in 4th . He did not have many different gears. When he fought Hearns he fought in 6th gear. But I think he was just a very determined and sharp fighter who knew his craft and I think he would have outworked Jones and stopped him. Jones never fought a guy as good as Hagler really, and Hagler fought a few guys as good as Jones

That is where you are wrong. Toney and Hopkins were not as good as Hagler.. I do not think Bernard was in a weak middleweight division and Toney was weakened by weight when he fought Jones. Jones fought Virgil Hill ,Toney and Hopkins. Those are his greatest wins but they are not the guys that Hagler fought and beat . People seem to think because Ray Leonard outboxed Hagler that Jones could. Totally different types of fighters. Ray knew exactly what to do to beat guys.
Jones fought Toney, Hopkins who were both easily as good as Hagler if not better, and Griffin was technically way better than Hagler.. Also Hagler wasn't always relentless in the Hagler-Leonard fight he thought he could box with Leonard, and lost the first three rounds, and also against Duran he tried to box him. Against Hearns he was lucky it ended when it did because they both couldn't go 12 rounds at that pace. Nobody came close to outworking prime Jones so there is no evidence he would have been worn down by the smaller, not as strong Hagler.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

Marvin was relentless and always busy and working. He was never just sitting there with the exception of the Duran fight where he expected an aggressive Duran. That was his only glitch in all his fights. Duran was just a fighter he never expected to fight. But I think that Marvin had a 4th gear and usually fought in 4th . He did not have many different gears. When he fought Hearns he fought in 6th gear. But I think he was just a very determined and sharp fighter who knew his craft and I think he would have outworked Jones and stopped him. Jones never fought a guy as good as Hagler really, and Hagler fought a few guys as good as Jones

Jones fought Toney, Hopkins who were both easily as good as Hagler if not better, and Griffin was technically way better than Hagler.. Also Hagler wasn't always relentless in the Hagler-Leonard fight he thought he could box with Leonard, and lost the first three rounds, and also against Duran he tried to box him. Against Hearns he was lucky it ended when it did because they both couldn't go 12 rounds at that pace. Nobody came close to outworking prime Jones so there is no evidence he would have been worn down by the smaller, not as strong Hagler.

I can understand you say Hopkins was in the same league as Hagler, but to suggest Toney was also in the same league if not better is ludicrous.

The reason Hagler fought the way he did against Duran is simple, he was intimidated, even though Duran was past his best Hagler was aware, even at that age Duran could be extremely dangerous, and Duran’s reputation was also a factor.

To fight Jones would NO WAY be easy, but I stand by what I said, I would see Hagler winning on points. I don’t feel Hagler would be able to stop Jones because in his prime Jones never let anybody truly test his chin, due to his movement, skill and reflexes, but I do feel Hagler would be able to catch up with him later in the fight.

I see Jones taking 5 rounds and Hagler taking 5, but Hagler edges it by taking the championship rounds, if It’s a 15 rounder I feel Hagler wins by a wider margin.

Originally Posted by Taeth

If anybody could stop Hagler it would be JOnes IMO... Whether he ko's Hagler or not this fight is easily JOnes'. Not that he would win easily every time, but that he wins this 9/10 times. He is too fast, and more importantly too big for Hagler who never fought a big guy who was also a better boxer than him... Think Leonard-Hagler, but in this fight Jones is faster than Leonard was at that point, and he hits hard enough that HAgler can't walk through his punches to counter like he did against Leonard.

No way....Jones does not hit that hard to keep Hagler off of him....Marvin was in with harder punchers than Roy...Marvin had a Granite chin...Look at Jones career...with the exception of Toney and a yet to be polished Hopkins he went a long long time fighting second teir opp...Guys ment to make you look good....Marvin would not fall into Toneys bad habit of trying to out do Jones and fight his fight. Hopkins was no where near the fighter he became as MW champion...Like I said befroe he took everthing the Beast had to offer and never even teetered...I would put the farm on it that Mugabi hit harder then Jones...The power is of no factor in this fight what so ever

Originally Posted by Realitycheck77

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65

Marvin was relentless and always busy and working. He was never just sitting there with the exception of the Duran fight where he expected an aggressive Duran. That was his only glitch in all his fights. Duran was just a fighter he never expected to fight. But I think that Marvin had a 4th gear and usually fought in 4th . He did not have many different gears. When he fought Hearns he fought in 6th gear. But I think he was just a very determined and sharp fighter who knew his craft and I think he would have outworked Jones and stopped him. Jones never fought a guy as good as Hagler really, and Hagler fought a few guys as good as Jones

Jones fought Toney, Hopkins who were both easily as good as Hagler if not better, and Griffin was technically way better than Hagler.. Also Hagler wasn't always relentless in the Hagler-Leonard fight he thought he could box with Leonard, and lost the first three rounds, and also against Duran he tried to box him. Against Hearns he was lucky it ended when it did because they both couldn't go 12 rounds at that pace. Nobody came close to outworking prime Jones so there is no evidence he would have been worn down by the smaller, not as strong Hagler.

I can understand you say Hopkins was in the same league as Hagler, but to suggest Toney was also in the same league if not better is ludicrous.

The reason Hagler fought the way he did against Duran is simple, he was intimidated, even though Duran was past his best Hagler was aware, even at that age Duran could be extremely dangerous, and Duran’s reputation was also a factor.

To fight Jones would NO WAY be easy, but I stand by what I said, I would see Hagler winning on points. I don’t feel Hagler would be able to stop Jones because in his prime Jones never let anybody truly test his chin, due to his movement, skill and reflexes, but I do feel Hagler would be able to catch up with him later in the fight.

I see Jones taking 5 rounds and Hagler taking 5, but Hagler edges it by taking the championship rounds, if It’s a 15 rounder I feel Hagler wins by a wider margin.

are you kidding have you seen early Toney at all? He is easily better than Hagler, and people are putting Hagler on a platform he doesn't deserve to be one.. He beat Hearns because of Hearns' weak chin and stamina. He beat Duran because he was simply too small. Mugabi we find out really wasn't all that great and was ko'ed twice after Hagler. Leonard beat Hagler because he out punched him, and Hagler tried to box with him for 3 rounds at the begining, and thats a Leonard who was by that point slower, far weaker, and nowhere near the reflexes of prime RJJ. Even if Hagler did tag RJJ, Roy had a good chin... He was hit plenty of times cleanly to no effect. Like I said Hagler doesn't have the footspeed, handspeed, or boxing skills to handle Roy's power, speed, and skill. End of argument from me.

I guess for the sake of this forum these kinds of discussions are necessary...I know its hard most people to forget the sour memory of Roy being knocked out. But he was 36 at least 5 years removed from his prime.

BUT PRIME VS PRIME... ROY JONES JR. EASILY BEATS ANY FIGHTER from any era between the weights of
160 - 175

hagler (lopsided UD), hearns (TKO 6), leonard (TKO 11), monzon (TKO 5), hopkins(UD obviously),mugabi(TKO) calzaghe (TKO 7), eubank (KO), collins (KO), benn (TKO , moore (TKO 11), foster (KO 4), conn (TKO 5), spinks (TKO 9),....That's just off the top of my head...

BUt anyone else you name Prime roy beats them all esp if its the 1994 - 1999 roy jones he'd crush them all....

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Originally Posted by Taeth

If anybody could stop Hagler it would be JOnes IMO... Whether he ko's Hagler or not this fight is easily JOnes'. Not that he would win easily every time, but that he wins this 9/10 times. He is too fast, and more importantly too big for Hagler who never fought a big guy who was also a better boxer than him... Think Leonard-Hagler, but in this fight Jones is faster than Leonard was at that point, and he hits hard enough that HAgler can't walk through his punches to counter like he did against Leonard.

No way....Jones does not hit that hard to keep Hagler off of him....Marvin was in with harder punchers than Roy...Marvin had a Granite chin...Look at Jones career...with the exception of Toney and a yet to be polished Hopkins he went a long long time fighting second teir opp...Guys ment to make you look good....Marvin would not fall into Toneys bad habit of trying to out do Jones and fight his fight. Hopkins was no where near the fighter he became as MW champion...Like I said befroe he took everthing the Beast had to offer and never even teetered...I would put the farm on it that Mugabi hit harder then Jones...The power is of no factor in this fight what so ever

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001758
LOL you haven't even watch any Roy Jones Jr. fights have you? Toney only tried to emulate Roy once in that fight, and due to balance he was "knocked" down. But Roy's power was apparent in that fight because Toney was able to counter because he was getting hit too hard too many times from too many angles. Are you going to tell me that a guy who can take punches from heavyweights including the hardest punching heavyweight right now at the age 38 doesn't have as good of a chin as Hagler? Mugabi did not hit harder than Roy Jones thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and Mugabi was right there to be hit back... Hagler wouldn't be able to catch Roy comming in and out against him because he couldn't hardly do it against Leonard who hadn't boxed in the ring for 3 years, and was 33. I know that Hagler wasn't in his prime, but he was had fights all the way leading up to that fight. To say power isn't relevant is retarded because of course it matters... You don't need to ko somebody for power to matter. and its not just power its RJJ's footspeed, handspeed, and angles along with power that are relevant.

Taeth always thinks that 'today's' modern fighter defeats anybody before them

Originally Posted by X

Taeth always thinks that 'today's' modern fighter defeats anybody before them

I think Mike Tyson beats any other heavyweight, and he is from the 80's. I just think two current fighters beat anybody close to their weightclass Roy JOnes Jr. and Mayweather Jr. just because sports evolve and half of you can't deal with it. Its psychologically proven that a fighter that you see when you start watching boxing will be veiwed in higher esteem later on in your life than fighters you will see as you get older. Meaning its in half of your guy's nature t believe that the fighters from your generations are better because you grew up watching them. I use to watch american football very closely back when I was younger especially the 49'ers and thats in the 90's, and already the athletes are so much better now in 2007 that those great teams of old wouldn't stand a chance. Its same in any sport. Now guys are running the 200 meters in under 20 seconds. Boxing guys progressively punch faster and are stronger. The only weightclasses that is not happening is 190 and up because all the good athletes up in those weights go in rugby or american football or else Ray Lewis from the Ravens would be the greatest heavyweight boxer ever, and if not him then any of a number of guys. THere is a kid in highschool who is 300 pounds runs 40 meters in 4.3 seconds, and he has 35inch arms, and supposedly mean as hell. Athletes like this could easily sweep up any generation of boxers if they grew up in the ring.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by X

Taeth always thinks that 'today's' modern fighter defeats anybody before them

I think Mike Tyson beats any other heavyweight, and he is from the 80's. I just think two current fighters beat anybody close to their weightclass Roy JOnes Jr. and Mayweather Jr. just because sports evolve and half of you can't deal with it. Its psychologically proven that a fighter that you see when you start watching boxing will be veiwed in higher esteem later on in your life than fighters you will see as you get older. Meaning its in half of your guy's nature t believe that the fighters from your generations are better because you grew up watching them. I use to watch american football very closely back when I was younger especially the 49'ers and thats in the 90's, and already the athletes are so much better now in 2007 that those great teams of old wouldn't stand a chance. Its same in any sport. Now guys are running the 200 meters in under 20 seconds. Boxing guys progressively punch faster and are stronger. The only weightclasses that is not happening is 190 and up because all the good athletes up in those weights go in rugby or american football or else Ray Lewis from the Ravens would be the greatest heavyweight boxer ever, and if not him then any of a number of guys. THere is a kid in highschool who is 300 pounds runs 40 meters in 4.3 seconds, and he has 35inch arms, and supposedly mean as hell. Athletes like this could easily sweep up any generation of boxers if they grew up in the ring.

i disagree with tyson statement but good post anyway

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Originally Posted by Taeth

If anybody could stop Hagler it would be JOnes IMO... Whether he ko's Hagler or not this fight is easily JOnes'. Not that he would win easily every time, but that he wins this 9/10 times. He is too fast, and more importantly too big for Hagler who never fought a big guy who was also a better boxer than him... Think Leonard-Hagler, but in this fight Jones is faster than Leonard was at that point, and he hits hard enough that HAgler can't walk through his punches to counter like he did against Leonard.

No way....Jones does not hit that hard to keep Hagler off of him....Marvin was in with harder punchers than Roy...Marvin had a Granite chin...Look at Jones career...with the exception of Toney and a yet to be polished Hopkins he went a long long time fighting second teir opp...Guys ment to make you look good....Marvin would not fall into Toneys bad habit of trying to out do Jones and fight his fight. Hopkins was no where near the fighter he became as MW champion...Like I said befroe he took everthing the Beast had to offer and never even teetered...I would put the farm on it that Mugabi hit harder then Jones...The power is of no factor in this fight what so ever

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001758
LOL you haven't even watch any Roy Jones Jr. fights have you? Toney only tried to emulate Roy once in that fight, and due to balance he was "knocked" down. But Roy's power was apparent in that fight because Toney was able to counter because he was getting hit too hard too many times from too many angles. Are you going to tell me that a guy who can take punches from heavyweights including the hardest punching heavyweight right now at the age 38 doesn't have as good of a chin as Hagler? Mugabi did not hit harder than Roy Jones thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard, and Mugabi was right there to be hit back... Hagler wouldn't be able to catch Roy comming in and out against him because he couldn't hardly do it against Leonard who hadn't boxed in the ring for 3 years, and was 33. I know that Hagler wasn't in his prime, but he was had fights all the way leading up to that fight. To say power isn't relevant is retarded because of course it matters... You don't need to ko somebody for power to matter. and its not just power its RJJ's footspeed, handspeed, and angles along with power that are relevant.

Emulate and fight his fight are two different things....

The first boxer I ever watched way Roy Jones and I thought in his prime no one could beat him. Hagler would beat him.

Roy Jones was unbeatable because his opponents let him be unbeatable. RJJ would pound on guys and then rest when he felt like it. The other guy wouldnt do nothing because he'd be too worried about being countered. Marvin wouldnt let RJJ rest for a second and RJJ would eventually get caught. If RJJ had SRL's chin he'd beat Hagler.

Originally Posted by baller

The first boxer I ever watched way Roy Jones and I thought in his prime no one could beat him. Hagler would beat him.

Roy Jones was unbeatable because his opponents let him be unbeatable. RJJ would pound on guys and then rest when he felt like it. The other guy wouldnt do nothing because he'd be too worried about being countered. Marvin wouldnt let RJJ rest for a second and RJJ would eventually get caught. If RJJ had SRL's chin he'd beat Hagler.

I agree with everything you said. Roy Jones was awesome but he is made for Marvin Hagler's style. Im a RJJ fan and I think he is greater than Hagler but I dont think he would prevail against him. He is a nightmare for every opponent he faced.