Thread: TONEY BALONEY

Originally Posted by Lionheart Lacy

u know i've stopped buying the boxing news cos firstly everytime i bought it i knew most of the stuff innit, secondly there are some writers who write shit about other fighters and yet they havent boxed a single round themselves.
i cant believe gavin evans some white boy has the nerve to write that. seriously toney is a great fighter, if u want i can get flaws out sugar ray robinsons record, jones's record, big georges record, that doesnt mean they not great.
the reason why toney never beat the undisputed champ in any division cos he was the undisputed champ, okay maybe he wasnt, but toney was known for fighting everyone and anyone, and very often. im sick of these writers, they need to be shot dead, okay maybe im goin over the top cos im angry but they try n get ppl down, n its just not fair, seriously!
toney was at one time the p4p king, he has won the Ring fighter of the year twice i think, his record is awesome, he's fought everyone, some of the most dangerous fighters around, he openyl challenged benn and eubank on tv (had the ballz). i mean i've NEVER!!! SEEN A FIGHTER AS COMPLETE AS TONEY BOTH IN THE THE PRACTICAL SIDE OF THINGS AND THE FACT HE FOUGHT EVERYONE AND HAS THE RIGHT MENTALITY (ATTITUDE) THAT A FIGHTER NEEDS OR HAS TO HAVE, THE '#I WILL FIGHT ANYONE ANYWHERE ANYTIME'. the onli james toney wasnt is a big box office draw like tyson, i'll never know why

While agree that the column was biased i dont agree with Toney being the most complete fighter ever. I do think his record flatters him a little. Just to pick apart your post a little bit.....

You say you have stopped buying the Boxing News because you are a know all and because the writers dont have any ring experience....well neither do most posters on here yet your happy to post on the site??

Also i don't know what you mean by WHITE BOY. Thats slightly racist and insinuates that White people are not allowed to write about black people and vice versa. Why does colour have to come into it Do white people only know about white boxers and vice versa?

Can you name one division where Toney did deserve to be undisputed number 1?

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Originally Posted by ono

To have never been stopped is a monumental achievement and yes Boxing Monthly is better than Boxing News

Fwockin Ahmen to that


So would you recomend this book your reading?

Yeah its pretty good. Its called 'The Dark Trade' by Donald Mcrae

A nicely written account of the author's personal journey through boxing in the 90s. The author vividly describes his encounters with some of the big names in the sport: Oscar De La Hoya, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones, Jr. and especially, James Toney. What's interesting about these sections of the book is that McRae really seems to get to know the people he's writing about and is able to reveal sides of their characters that aren't normally seen. I read this over a weekend, neglecting everything else I had planned to do because I couldn't put it down

That's a review from Amazon. Quite long and i took a break from it halfway through to read Ricky Hatton's autobiography which is also very good and pretty funny too.

Infact i would recommend both but especially the dark trade one.

I'll probably have to find "The Dark Trade". Sounds good!

Not too keen on Auto-Bios on current subjects though (ala Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard.... Amir Khan )

Lol neither is Joey Barton. Are you watching the England game tonight?

Haha, yeah wonder what was said between those lads during their training sessions

Im watching it... Never missed an England game, never will! :P

Alright, im a Liverpool fan right, but im getting bored of looking at Crouch's bean head in a fwockin England shirt.

Johnson and Defoe must have a disabillity i dont know about?

Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Haha, yeah wonder what was said between those lads during their training sessions

Im watching it... Never missed an England game, never will! :P

Alright, im a Liverpool fan right, but im getting bored of looking at Crouch's bean head in a fwockin England shirt.

Johnson and Defoe must have a disabillity i dont know about?

I'm a man city fan.

I quite like Crouchy. I think Johnson is injured. Dyer is playin upfront i think. Bit silly really.

I'm interested to see how Barton does.

Originally Posted by ono

Can you name one division where Toney did deserve to be undisputed number 1?

Yes. He didn't reign any division for a long time, or unify.. but after he beat Michael Nunn at middleweight I doubt anyone was regarded as the top dog other than him, especially after he defended against guys like Reggie Johnson and McCallum... Then when he moved up to super middleweight and beat Iran Barkley he was regarded by many as the no.1 p4p fighter in the world, and he remained in the top of the rankings and as the top dog at SMW beating guys like Charles Williams and Tim Littles.. After he lost Roy Jones he perhaps never quite gained the same status back, but I don't think it could be argued that Vassily Jirov was the undisputed number 1 at cruiser, and a great fighter, and Toney was very impressive beating him so you'd have to figure he was no.1 there for a short period. Really just a shame he didn't stay at cruiser in hindsight, but Im sure his lazy ass would have balooned up too much anyways. Really couldnt' see anyone who'd even have given him a good fight at cruiser unless Byrd had moved down a couple years back.

Originally Posted by p4pking

Originally Posted by ono

Can you name one division where Toney did deserve to be undisputed number 1?

Yes. He didn't reign any division for a long time, or unify.. but after he beat Michael Nunn at middleweight I doubt anyone was regarded as the top dog other than him, especially after he defended against guys like Reggie Johnson and McCallum... Then when he moved up to super middleweight and beat Iran Barkley he was regarded by many as the no.1 p4p fighter in the world, and he remained in the top of the rankings and as the top dog at SMW beating guys like Charles Williams and Tim Littles.. After he lost Roy Jones he perhaps never quite gained the same status back, but I don't think it could be argued that Vassily Jirov was the undisputed number 1 at cruiser, and a great fighter, and Toney was very impressive beating him so you'd have to figure he was no.1 there for a short period. Really just a shame he didn't stay at cruiser in hindsight, but Im sure his lazy ass would have balooned up too much anyways. Really couldnt' see anyone who'd even have given him a good fight at cruiser unless Byrd had moved down a couple years back.

Good posting again, thanks for that. That was me generally asking that question because James Toney's early career is not something i'm totally familiar with.

I have seen the Nunn fight and that was enjoyable but he was trailing by quite a margin before the KO. Was McCallum past it when they fought?

first thing first, i dont buy the boxingnews cos i used to know everything innit, what i meant was all the news was old and all over the net. so wahst the point. also sometimes i didnt agree with what the writers had to say , they were very biased alot of the time, they seemed like old guys who have watched alot of boxing but still dont know shit. btw toney is a complete fighter, u have to be blind not to see that. he could box, he could slug, and he could fight a boxer and counterpunch a slugger, thats called complete, he also has a solid heart, and a stubborness and determination not seen since chris eubanks. on top of all that he has the attitude of a fighter, a true badass. anyways i think he has proved this cos he wont have been champ at middleweight, smw, and hold a title a light heavyweigjht, world title at cruiserweight and held a title at HW if he wasnt a complete fighter. i mean jeff lacy may have been super middleweigjht champ but becos of his size and style, he wont have been champ at the divisions above his cos he is not well rounded n cant adapt.

i remember seeing in the boxing news when i first started buying it, when he wasn gonna fight ruiz. i didnt know much about boxing abroad back then, toney was very a big hat and he looked likea cool bastrd. that writer put it best, ' your not ordinary with almost 80 professional fights, neva being ko'd and onli losing 4 fights!' and its true, the guy comes into fights with a belly or sometimes in shape and he wins, n does it in stylethats the sign of greatness, yes thats right mr dumbass gavin evans! n on top of that he has the aura that jus makes him look like a true badass!

Originally Posted by ono

I have just finished reading a very interesting article in Boxing News about James Toney.

I won't guve you the whole piece because it's too long but i'll try my best to break it down and para-phrase it for you guys.

Gavin Evans writes that altho Toney was a very good fighter he can never be compared to the greats of the modern era such as Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather amongst others.....

"Let's start at middleweight. Prior to winning the IBF title in 91, two of Toney's wins were via split decision and Sanderline Williams held him to a draw"

He goes on to say that he finally broke through against Michael Nunn in a great fight. Problem was Nunn was weight drained and was well ahead before gtting knocked out. In Toney's first defence he was lucky to get a split against Reggie Johnson. He then went onto to draw with an over the hill Mike McCallum. Two months later he got a hotly disputed split against Dave Tiberi. One judge scored it 117-111 to Tiberi. He then won a majority decision return against the body snatcher Mike McCallum.

So to break it down, his 34 fight record at 160 included basically 5 splits/majorities, 1 dubious win and one plain ridiculous decision. Not exactly top ten status.

Joney did look great at super middle in stopping Iran Barkely and Prince Charles Williams but he then ran into Roy Jones.

Moving up to Light Heavy and he has two losses to Montell Griffin. Two fights after the 2nd reverse, he loses to Drake Thadzi who was 28-8-1 going in.

At Cruiser Toney did enjoy some success but he was over the weight limit in all but 2 of his 12 fights. Vassilly Jirov was his biggest scalp at Cruiser but he went on to lose to MIchael Morrer and Joe Messi so that discredits the win somewhat.

Finally we move up to heavyweight where he has 3 wins from 7 fights. He's only stopped one fighter at heavy and that was a 41 yr old Holyfield. As a former middlweight it's unfair to expect him to KO heavyweights. Then you have the Ruiz victory and the steroid sham, the Rahman draw and the 2 losses to Sam Peter.

So if his record of 69-6-3 impresses you, please consider he never once beat the undisputed number 1 in any division. Strange how records patch over what was quite an erratic career.

Discuss please

You are an infidel and I declare Jihad on you and your followers. :P

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by p4pking

Originally Posted by ono

Can you name one division where Toney did deserve to be undisputed number 1?

Yes. He didn't reign any division for a long time, or unify.. but after he beat Michael Nunn at middleweight I doubt anyone was regarded as the top dog other than him, especially after he defended against guys like Reggie Johnson and McCallum... Then when he moved up to super middleweight and beat Iran Barkley he was regarded by many as the no.1 p4p fighter in the world, and he remained in the top of the rankings and as the top dog at SMW beating guys like Charles Williams and Tim Littles.. After he lost Roy Jones he perhaps never quite gained the same status back, but I don't think it could be argued that Vassily Jirov was the undisputed number 1 at cruiser, and a great fighter, and Toney was very impressive beating him so you'd have to figure he was no.1 there for a short period. Really just a shame he didn't stay at cruiser in hindsight, but Im sure his lazy a** would have balooned up too much anyways. Really couldnt' see anyone who'd even have given him a good fight at cruiser unless Byrd had moved down a couple years back.

Good posting again, thanks for that. That was me generally asking that question because James Toney's early career is not something i'm totally familiar with.

I have seen the Nunn fight and that was enjoyable but he was trailing by quite a margin before the KO. Was McCallum past it when they fought?

A bit past it, they fought 3 times so I suppose moreso each time. 3rd happened later at light heacy or even cruiser though.. But he was still great in their first 2 fights and a clear top contender at middle. Watch their first fight McCallum battles Toney to a draw, great fight too. Thing is Toney was very raw in those days, he had a few very close, shaky starts to his middleweight campaign. Yes he was trailing when he stopped Nunn, it was a good fight but he was decisevly losing most rounds. Although you could argue he won the war of attrition as he started to do better and better in the mid rounds and was much fresher than Nunn when he stopped him. Wasn't just a big punch out of nowhere that people make it out to be. Reggie Johnson was a hell of a fighter in those days too. Nunn, McCallum, and Johnson would have stood head and shoulders above anyone else he could have met at 160 at that time.. It's funny because Middleweight is probably the division where he is most accomplished even though he was far from a finished product those days.. Just goes to show what the guy could have done if he'd mantained a good level of fitness and managed his weight to go along with the skills he developed.

Originally Posted by The Shadow

Originally Posted by ono

I have just finished reading a very interesting article in Boxing News about James Toney.

I won't guve you the whole piece because it's too long but i'll try my best to break it down and para-phrase it for you guys.

Gavin Evans writes that altho Toney was a very good fighter he can never be compared to the greats of the modern era such as Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather amongst others.....

"Let's start at middleweight. Prior to winning the IBF title in 91, two of Toney's wins were via split decision and Sanderline Williams held him to a draw"

He goes on to say that he finally broke through against Michael Nunn in a great fight. Problem was Nunn was weight drained and was well ahead before gtting knocked out. In Toney's first defence he was lucky to get a split against Reggie Johnson. He then went onto to draw with an over the hill Mike McCallum. Two months later he got a hotly disputed split against Dave Tiberi. One judge scored it 117-111 to Tiberi. He then won a majority decision return against the body snatcher Mike McCallum.

So to break it down, his 34 fight record at 160 included basically 5 splits/majorities, 1 dubious win and one plain ridiculous decision. Not exactly top ten status.

Joney did look great at super middle in stopping Iran Barkely and Prince Charles Williams but he then ran into Roy Jones.

Moving up to Light Heavy and he has two losses to Montell Griffin. Two fights after the 2nd reverse, he loses to Drake Thadzi who was 28-8-1 going in.

At Cruiser Toney did enjoy some success but he was over the weight limit in all but 2 of his 12 fights. Vassilly Jirov was his biggest scalp at Cruiser but he went on to lose to MIchael Morrer and Joe Messi so that discredits the win somewhat.

Finally we move up to heavyweight where he has 3 wins from 7 fights. He's only stopped one fighter at heavy and that was a 41 yr old Holyfield. As a former middlweight it's unfair to expect him to KO heavyweights. Then you have the Ruiz victory and the steroid sham, the Rahman draw and the 2 losses to Sam Peter.

So if his record of 69-6-3 impresses you, please consider he never once beat the undisputed number 1 in any division. Strange how records patch over what was quite an erratic career.

Discuss please

You are an infidel and I declare Jihad on you and your followers. :P

Sad click back you great big spanner. That article wasn't my opinion. I was para-phrasing from Boxing News magazine.

Originally Posted by p4pking

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by p4pking

Originally Posted by ono

Can you name one division where Toney did deserve to be undisputed number 1?

Yes. He didn't reign any division for a long time, or unify.. but after he beat Michael Nunn at middleweight I doubt anyone was regarded as the top dog other than him, especially after he defended against guys like Reggie Johnson and McCallum... Then when he moved up to super middleweight and beat Iran Barkley he was regarded by many as the no.1 p4p fighter in the world, and he remained in the top of the rankings and as the top dog at SMW beating guys like Charles Williams and Tim Littles.. After he lost Roy Jones he perhaps never quite gained the same status back, but I don't think it could be argued that Vassily Jirov was the undisputed number 1 at cruiser, and a great fighter, and Toney was very impressive beating him so you'd have to figure he was no.1 there for a short period. Really just a shame he didn't stay at cruiser in hindsight, but Im sure his lazy a** would have balooned up too much anyways. Really couldnt' see anyone who'd even have given him a good fight at cruiser unless Byrd had moved down a couple years back.

Good posting again, thanks for that. That was me generally asking that question because James Toney's early career is not something i'm totally familiar with.

I have seen the Nunn fight and that was enjoyable but he was trailing by quite a margin before the KO. Was McCallum past it when they fought?

A bit past it, they fought 3 times so I suppose moreso each time. 3rd happened later at light heacy or even cruiser though.. But he was still great in their first 2 fights and a clear top contender at middle. Watch their first fight McCallum battles Toney to a draw, great fight too. Thing is Toney was very raw in those days, he had a few very close, shaky starts to his middleweight campaign. Yes he was trailing when he stopped Nunn, it was a good fight but he was decisevly losing most rounds. Although you could argue he won the war of attrition as he started to do better and better in the mid rounds and was much fresher than Nunn when he stopped him. Wasn't just a big punch out of nowhere that people make it out to be. Reggie Johnson was a hell of a fighter in those days too. Nunn, McCallum, and Johnson would have stood head and shoulders above anyone else he could have met at 160 at that time.. It's funny because Middleweight is probably the division where he is most accomplished even though he was far from a finished product those days.. Just goes to show what the guy could have done if he'd mantained a good level of fitness and managed his weight to go along with the skills he developed.

CC #321. Thanks for that input. I'll try and get hold of a few Toney fights. The only ones i have are the Nunn fight and the Roy Jones fight.

I only have two myself.

Jirov & Holyfield.

Brilliant shows, the pair of em.