Thread: setting measurable goals for improvement of technique

In holly, that's in oaland county, that's about a half an hour drive from the Joe Byrd's boxing academy in Flint.

no shit!? I'm in Canton.

No kidding, ya'know Von you're just about 45 minutes away from me. What gym do you go to?

Originally Posted by Sharla

Scrap - just out of curiosity what are some things in boxing you feel come under the nature heading which some people mistake for being a nurture thing - something you could alter by training?

I keep revising, thats a terrific qeustion by the way Sharla. which came first the chicken or the egg, are gennetic memory is stronger than we like to beleive, are ancesters are never given the credit they deserve in many ways I beleive we communicate with them more than we like to beleive even in nuture, trainers can direct and teach but its natural human History you are trying to shape. Learning skills are I believe Genetic, but there are cases which would put that statement on its arse. But on closer inspection I wonder, whats your take Id be interested to here it you being in the feild yuore in

I think trainers are great, they keep your head from inflating and at the same time keep focused and down to earth.

In regards to the nature/nurture idea I think many people come to be with their own kinds of thinking in regards to their heritage and where they come from. Without a doubt I believe that a good fighter can become a great fighter if he does all that they can do but like all things it depends on a lot of factors.

Let me make an analogy to better describe where I'm coming from. My dad told me in regards to school or sports a lot of people have their foot on the accelerator floored, and others to lesser degrees. In highschool I've seen some Valedictorians, and honor roll students that were going full at it, but by the time they get to college I find that even with their commitment they can't cope with the higher demands of college. I on the other hand with a people I know went at about half power in highschool, and in college we're doing fine since we're just started reaching our thresh-hold.

The same is true for boxing, strong qualities will bring out the best of you, but it still doesn't put in what you didn't already have within you. That doesn't change the fact that we can always learn new things, but as you've dealt with yourself scrap that some people don't have it in them to learn things especially when a lot of things in boxing have different levels/factors to it which doesn't make it one of the easier disciplines to master.

Originally Posted by Sharla

Thanks for the comments everyone -

I do see the need for a sense of humour Chris! I guess if we couldn't all laugh at our mistakes sometimes we'd just cry!

I don't think my mind wanders a lot - I have the opposite problem really of getting stuck on details a bit too much. I guess the hope is that once I have key goals in mind and I know how to assess my progress, and what to do to progress - rather than just stewing on it - I'll be more efficient with my training time as I'll know what's most important.

I do have coaches and of course their opinion is extremely important to me but my gym is run by 4 coaches who all come in on different nights and have different ideas and teaching styles. Because of this I don't feel I can learn what each of them is trying to teach me without my own mental map of how it all fits together.

I can see your point about 'feeling' what you are trying to achieve. I can feel the difference between strong straight punches, hooks at head height and uppercuts but am still unable to 'feel' the difference between a strong and weak upper cut to the body.

Hey Aussie girl, is that convoluted and long winded enough for ya? I'm not going to bury you again just going to pour some more knowledge on your butt.

Just like when you're driving you have level awareness that taps into your feelings. It becomes so natural that you can already feel the twists and turns of the road in your mind, you can see your car accelerating and slowing down when necessary. A good driver will his whole route mapped out in his mind, and be flexible enough as the situation changes.

You with me so far Sharla?

Now let's tie this in with boxing, as a fighter you're on a road of some uncertainty, and you have own sorta road map in your mind on how you'll approach your opponent. All the practice and training helps things become natural so that when the time comes for you to react to your opponent you do it instinctively, just like driving when you see a detour, obstacle or an exit. The big difference is that in boxing there are many more variable that you must become aware with, your opponent, yourself and your objectives. It's more alike advanced driving (defensive, aggressive and tactical)

Now put yourself in the trainer's shoes. You're noticed that they have a bad habit or continue to make mistakes, you've gone and told them what they need to fix and may have told them everything that you think may help them. They continue to make the same mistaces despite your corrections and their determination. NO they must not have what it takes. Now go back to being ourselves, and let me tell you the other half to it. A trainer, or yourself can show you the ropes, tell you how to do it but they can not make experience it. They can make help us make adjustments as we do ourselves and the hope is that we can get a feeling of what's right.

Do you follow?

I think a good trainer take an Emanuel Steward or Ray Leonard's trainer Angelo Dundee are very keen on how they come across to a fighter. They know their fighters tendencies and attributes and work with that, they make suggestions that make the fighter come to that idea themselves.

You said your mind doesn't wander but you have an attention to details, and from what else I can gather that you work hard for it.

Now listen to me closely, what you don't want to become is a victim of overthinking, or analysing something to the point that you know it works, but you can't do it so you can feel it for yourself. What you need to do is make these thoughts natural by doing it right and coming to a realization so it's not like you have to grab out of a suggestion's-box when you need to do the right thing. Bruce Lee said it himself, "It hit's all by itself."

Now this is hotpoop! and I about buried you in it all over again in my convoluted way of thinking. But if you were to ask me of one exercise that helped you feel the techniques so that you can make them natural habits I'd say SHADOWBOXING in front of a mirror. Now you've been at it long enough to know what looks right and you got smart trainers behind you ready to pour the knowledge onto you if need be. Practice your feints, your punches counters, moves w/e and really take it in. Now when you are sparring you're not inexperienced you are more aware than ever. The sense of humor is just so you don't become to tense or die-hard that you can't take anything lightly you can't have a laugh once in a while then we can't ever have any fun.

I'm dead serious now, go say hi to the Sharla in the mirror and give her a 1-2 for me.


Regards,
Chris

Originally Posted by Chris N.

No kidding, ya'know Von you're just about 45 minutes away from me. What gym do you go to?

Dynamic on Warren Rd in Westland/Garden City. A fairly small gym that recently exploded with people because of Kronk's closure.

But that was last September when they lost their copper pipes.

I thought they were going to relocate, any news on that?

Hey maybe you two could set up a sparring session. Just an idea.

Maybe down the line, we'll see...

Hi Scrap - Well being in plant science the genetic inheritance of behavioural patterns is not my area but I do think with most things the final outcome is a mixture of genetics and environment. Many things will have an element each way just as we might all have physical tendencies towards particular health problems and behavioural management may or may not be enough to prevent us from actually getting them.

The difficult part is separating/ standardizing the environmental aspect from the genetic when studying it. Basically impossible unless you get a pair of identical twins to work with. You haven't ever trained identical twins by any chance? :-)

I guess I would think most things could be trained to a degree but some would be more difficult due to a lifetime of behavioural patterns shaped by what we are genetically more likely to be good at and a few purely genetic factors.

As for specific examples guess reflex action might be one thing you could train physically to a point and then it's more a matter of knowing how to make the most of the reflexes you have by improving the choice of how you respond. You might start by learning to relax and focus to increase you reflex speed and then learn to fine tune your timing and most appropriate response choice.

I do also think that certain personality traits especially those associated with addictive behaviour might be partially genetic. My own family might be an example of this - 3/4 of the kids in my family have competed at a national level in their sports (all different). Sport was our chosen outlet but for my grandmother it was alcohol, for my grandfather it was work and I could go on listing obsessive bahaviours of my family members. It could work out well or badly depending on our choices but we definately have an unusually obsessive family. I have always been involved in sport for myself - not anyone else - so I do think it's a genetic compulsion - we just can't leave it alone. We've all suffered different training induced injuries aswell since we are not good at stopping when we're told!

So basically I'd say there's some genetic component to most things although environmental factors aswell as deliberate psychological tactics such as positive thought etc can play a big part. Would you agree with that Scrap?

Originally Posted by Chris N.

But that was last September when they lost their copper pipes.

I thought they were going to relocate, any news on that?

nah, haven't really been following what's going on. All I know for sure is that (apparently, ie what I've been told) is that all these new guys, who are actually pretty good boxers, came fmor there. If you know anything about kronk you know it's a dump. She weren't in good shape. lol.

Yeah, what a shame.

Anyways how's your gym? The one I'm going to "Joe Byrd's" in Flint, it's small but it has one ring (14'), a few hitting bags, and speedbag. There's not much space, but it makes up for it with the people on hand. Also for 5 bucks a month you can't go wrong. I'll end up paying more in gas than the dues.

Also thanks for your input again Chris - you explain things the same way I think - I'm not good at writing short letters - so it works well for me

Thanks for taking the time to write all that - I promise to bond with the gym mirror a little more and since we have a pretty good set up at our gym for that I have no excuse not to

Sharla great post I agree, its something close to my heart it facinates me the older I get theres so many equations. You play the hand your dealt, but with time in an enviroment given there is change, what evolves is open for judgement long term, cc.

One more thing that I would like to add especially since you've also taken an interest in Von's pulley machine.

All boxing training (sparring, shadowboxing, and bagwork) has to be done before any supplementary training that trains especially in particularly the upper body. Also make sure you don't do the same workout everyday, or your muscles won't be able to recuperate. You don't want to go into a sparring session with your muscles already half tired. That goes the same for roadwork. I know a lot of fella's that like to do their running in the morning, that's fine as long as you don't have any sparring that's coming up later in the day.

Ha, this time I didn't bury you, just wanted to add a little cherry on the top.

Now shoo we gave you the full 101, now go punch a mirror or something.