Thread: Ice Cold Changed His Mind Slighty About Ali Was He Overrated ??

Right im going to get ton of sad clicks but i couldn't care less i think Ali was very good fighter with good skills but i do feel he was tad overrated here are my reasons why lets start at beginning

Right first Ali vs Cooper fight Ali got dropped and looked gone to me but split glove controversy and smelling salts which wasn't allowed in Uk at that time i believe saved him and Cooper in todays standards wouldn't even be heavyweight he would probably be lightheavyweight right secondly lets go to Doug Jones fight which Ali did struggle against average Jones who hit Ali clean sometimes again close fight but Ali did deserve now lets go to 70s he fought Frazier and got stuffing beat out of him and lost decision fair play was great fight by Frazier but thing i don't like is all these gift decisions Ali gets like Ken Norton fights arguably Norton could have won all 3 i gave Norton 2 out of 3 fights would Ali have been greatest if he would of lost 2 out of 3 against Norton ?? i don't think so and then theres this gift decision against Jimmy Young in which i felt Young deserved again would he have been greatest if he would of lost decision against Young i think not and again theres controversial decision against Shavers which could of gone either way right now let me finish this by saying Ali had some heart and hell of a chin and beat great fighters but overall i feel he is overrated by alot of people sc me all you want but thats my two cents.

Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?

Fair play for that post, Ice

If Ali had of retired after beating Foreman he would be beyond clouds today and possibly in the orbit of the earth!

He was human as are all boxers and deserves reevaluation as all other great boxers do to.

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?

Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.

Ill give you a cool click for the courage of your convictions. But remember Ali had to many hard ones one after the other so his condition was never as it should be or his mindsett. But his Bottle always got him through.

Thanks Scrap and Miles ccs back i know im going to get pasted on this thread but i speak whats on my mind.

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?

Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.

Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?

Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.

Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one

See thats where your wrong he wasn't unbeatable in 60s the average Doug Jones gave Ali good arguement losing sd and Cooper dropped Ali who is not even hw by the standards now and therers even controversy in that with split glove and smelling salts Ali was good but not unbeatable and Ali used same footwork he did in 60s against Norton and still lost and arguably Norton could of won all 3.

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?

Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.

Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one

See thats where your wrong he wasn't unbeatable in 60s the average Doug Jones gave Ali good arguement losing sd and Cooper dropped Ali who is not even hw by the standards now and therers even controversy in that with split glove and smelling salts Ali was good but not unbeatable and Ali used same footwork he did in 60s against Norton and still lost and arguably Norton could of won all 3.

Again
He was blind for a full round against Liston,the same Liston that everyone said he couldnt beat
Screwing around with Cooper and getting caught with a punchers chance doesnt make him overrated,a little to arrogant for his own good,but Ive made that complaint before
Of course,he made London,Mildenberger and Williams pay dearly for that,didnt he?

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Ummmmmmmm Ice,
While no clicks,are you kidding me?
The first guy to be undisputed Heavyweight champ 3 times,who fought Frazier to the point where there were reports Frazier died,who more or less toyed with dangerous heavyweight Zora Foley,who spent most of his fight with Patterson screaming "Whats My Name?" as he pummeled him,who used your boy Holmes as his sparring partner for the 70's,gold metalist,who let one of the hardest punchers out there in Foreman punch himself out,is overrated?

Yea thanks for sc and yes Ali was great but you guys overrate him imo he wasn't some unbeatable boxer that can't be beat he had been exposed by Young and Norton and Foreman was swinging and swinging hardly landing much clean and he just punched himself out and Ali koed him fair play great win for him i never said it wasn't yes and he used my boy Holmes as sparring partner and Holmes was getting better of him in sparring and imo Holmes would beat Ali.

Foreman wasnt landing because Ali wasnt letting him
Go ask Frazier how easy that is to pull off,hell ask Moorer.
Ali was able to take it to a decision with Norton with a broken jaw
In the 60's he was untouchable,to the point he goofed off with fighters,not bum's,good fighters,and he'd just play with them
Foley was a number one contender,and he toyed with him,until he decided to knock him out.
Your judging him on a decade after he won the title in the first place
And he still was able to take it and keep it for almost another one
There was only one

See thats where your wrong he wasn't unbeatable in 60s the average Doug Jones gave Ali good arguement losing sd and Cooper dropped Ali who is not even hw by the standards now and therers even controversy in that with split glove and smelling salts Ali was good but not unbeatable and Ali used same footwork he did in 60s against Norton and still lost and arguably Norton could of won all 3.

Again
He was blind for a full round against Liston,the same Liston that everyone said he couldnt beat
Screwing around with Cooper and getting caught with a punchers chance doesnt make him overrated,a little to arrogant for his own good,but Ive made that complaint before
Of course,he made London,Mildenberger and Williams pay dearly for that,didnt he?

London wasn't good fighter Mild who ?? and Williams was an average contender at best and how old was Liston against Ali ??

Liston was 32,not exactly elderly,and he didnt have those "issues" hed develop in the late 60's
Liston was a damn shame,if he hadnt run in to Ali,hed have been a great.
And if he hadnt developed issues,he might have fought his way back in to the mix

Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

Liston was 32,not exactly elderly,and he didnt have those "issues" hed develop in the late 60's
Liston was a damn shame,if he hadnt run in to Ali,hed have been a great.
And if he hadnt developed issues,he might have fought his way back in to the mix

I thought he was more like 38 and lied about his age unless im wrong ??

Date of birth 5-8-32
Ali Liston happened in 64
He kept fighting for another 6 years

Trainer Monkey your wrong they didn't know he exact age. He was anywhere between 35-40 when he fought Ali the first time they even have accounts from people who lived right next door to him growing up saying he would have had to have been 40 when he fought Ali. Anyways Ali was a good athlete, but wasn't even compared to Roy Jones Jr. very orthodox in how he fought. He had virtually no defense except speed for most of his career, and he had alot of problems with guys who could box which is why I don't think he would have won more than half the times were he to fight Lennox or Holmes Prime for Prime. He ran around way too much, and that would tire him out too quickly, also he had a hard time getting in on the jab.

i do agree he was overated but theres still no doubt he is one of the best heavyweights theres ever been but ice cold pointed out he had trouble with some fighters the main one being norton but if i remember rightly b4 when i said that louis could beat ali nd mentioned that ali struggled wid norton u said that dont mean nothing cos he was a difficult fighter so i dont no how u can use that aginst him now nd if it wasnt u sorry. cc for saying what many think