Thread: My view on De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Julio Cesar Chavez and other issues!

I’ve been following all types of sports from a very early age (about the age of 8, I’m now 30), Football (soccer), Formula 1, Tennis, Cricket and Boxing to mention a few.

My fight collection is now up to approximately 3,700 individual boxing fights.

I’ve been reading a fair bit on Mayweather (Pretty Boy) recently, I’m not suggesting I’m in anyway that I’m more knowledgeable than any of you, I’m simply stating my opinion is based on what knowledge I have.

I neither dislike Floyd Mayweather or like him, I simply respect him as a boxer but what annoys me is when a few fans say he is the greatest etc and then a few peeps who say he’s rubbish etc because IMO neither of those statements are correct!

Let me give you a viewpoint Mayweather v De La Hoya, these two both fought not that long a go and as we know this went to a split decision. If we look at the facts it is clear that Mayweather moved up in weight to take on De La Hoya, it is also clear that De La Hoya was and is past his best, most certainly past his peak, and when you consider his successful promotional activities, he’s more businessman than boxer these days.

Anyway we are currently seeing Mayweather at his peak and the weight that best suits him is Welterweight, let’s take the recent Mayweather Vs. De La Hoya fight and then look back at a hungry and sharp De La Hoya at Welterweight and put them together in that scenario and I think we have an interesting outcome.

We see Mayweather at his peak but if a ‘past his prime’ De La Hoya could take Mayweather to a close split decision what does a prime De La Hoya do?

I stated before in some of my previous posts that the words Legend, All-Time Great and even Great are sometimes misused, whilst I except Mayweather is a Phenomenal Boxer he is not an all-time great!

I look back at some of the older fighters, let’s take Hagler for example, there was none of this bulls**t about “he brings nothing to the table”. Mugabi was a dangerous fighter I believe he had something like 25 fights all wins by KO. Hagler took the fight and stopped him, this is just one example.

At the time Mugabi was a dangerous fight and could be perceived as “bringing nothing to the table”, but Hagler had no issues with proving what he was about as a boxer/fighter.

People will argue, Mayweather has beaten everyone in his division etc, well no I disagree, why say “he brings nothing to the table” why not fight Cotto, Margarito, Williams, if you are as good as you say you are and want to go down as a ‘Great fighter’ then fight these guys and if Mayweather wins I will have no hesitation in giving him his props.

Yes times have changed, but I don’t agree with “well he’s beaten everyone out there” with only a hand full of fights, guys like Julio Cesar Chavez fought 100+ fights, even Hagler ended up with 60+ fights.

That leads me nicely onto yesterday. Yesterday I felt like watching some fights from Julio Cesar Chavez so I cleaned up the house knowing that I haven’t got to worry about food as I have plenty of Turkey and Vegetables left over to eat later, so I grabbed myself a few drinks and chilled out, I don’t usually drink but I like to let my hair down and re-charge the batteries every so often.

I decided on watching Chavez Vs. Roger Mayweather 1, 2 and Chavez Vs. Meldrick Taylor 1, 2. The fights I have included the original HBO pre-fight build up etc so it really takes you back in time and highlights the importance of each fight.

During and after I completed watching these fights it just re-confirmed how great Julio Cesar Chavez was as a boxer/fighter and how good he was for boxing.

I think at the age of 25-27 he was simply amazing, his work on the inside, his chin, his will to win and steadied aggression were simply wonderful to watch, I recall during the first Taylor fight and second Mayweather fight, the commentators seemed to be watching different fights, they failed to see early on the damage Chavez was doing in both of these fights. In both instances, just before the bout was over the two defeated fighters had nothing left.

You’re thinking where am I going with this? Well first of all I’m saying no doubt Julio Cesar Chavez is an all time great which I knew anyway and I don’t think anyone will disagree with that, it’s just a breath of fresh air to watch the fights again after so long. Secondly yes Chavez like many other greats fought on to long but forget that.

I feel a prime Chavez Vs. a prime De La Hoya (I know these to fought twice, but Chavez was not in his prime) would beat De La Hoya. A lot of Mayweather fans might not except this but yes a prime Chavez would also beat a prime Floyd Mayweather Jnr.

When I look back at the Hatton Vs. Mayweather fight after watching Chavez, I saw so many flaws in Hatton. Chavez’s head movement in his prime and creating angles to punch were simply sublime.

Let’s be fair, the first Castillo Vs. Mayweather fight was very close, let’s replace Castillo with a prime Chavez. Yes I know very interesting! I feel just to put it into perspective Chavez would TKO Hatton in about round 10 or 11 but that’s just my opinion.

Looking back I have to hold my hands up, I was one of a few who thought Hatton would beat Tszyu and he did, but I also thought Hatton could beat Mayweather, the closer the fight got the more I doubted if Hatton could.

If I look back and if I were to be completely professional, just look at a fighters face, that gives you a good idea of how good they are at not getting hit and if you look at Hatton’s face, you can clearly see he get’s hit!

Oh and whilst on the subject, I have to say I was totally and utterly disgusted by the chorus of boo’s from the British Hatton fans whilst the USA national anthem was playing or being sang as it where. I’m from England and I just thought that was disgusting, they went around drinking beer and shouting and singing “Hatton wonderland” and the Americans provided them with good hospitality and then for the British fans to ‘boo’ during the anthem was disgraceful, they should be ashamed of themselves!!

Anyway now that I have got that of my chest…

Fighters like Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Duran, Chavez and Louis to mention a very few are true greats and will only come around once in a while! So let’s not insult these all-time greats by calling ‘less a fighters’ all-time greats, these ’less a fighters’ who are undoubtedly very good, have some more work to do before they can be mentioned in the same breath as true greats!!!

The next fight I’ll be watching whilst enjoying the festive and New Year season will be Julio Cesar Chavez Vs. Hector Camacho, I know this was a fight Chavez wanted quite badly, it’ll be interesting to see the ‘clinic’ he puts on Camacho, I recall the scorecards read - judge: Dalby Shirley 117-111 | judge: Carol Castellano 119-110 | judge: Harry Gibbs 120-107.

In fact I'm going to put it on know.

Just finished watching 'El Grand Campeoni Mexicano' Julio Cesar Chavez Vs. Hector 'macho' Camacho, and just reminded me that fair credit to Camacho, allthough ran alot he sayed there.

But there was only going to be one outcome and that just reminded me of the beating Chavez gave to Camacho.

Ok, now I'm watching Julio Ceasr Chavez Vs. Greg Haugan, this was a bit of bad blood match but I've just seen the Intro's this is avout the 7th time I've wached this fight and I can never get over the Intro.

What an atmosphere 130,000 people which I still think is a record!!

Anyway, I'm going to watch Haugen take a beating, I luv the bit when Chavez asks Haugen about those cab drivers!!

Lol!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Realitycheck77

I’ve been following all types of sports from a very early age (about the age of 8, I’m now 30), Football (soccer), Formula 1, Tennis, Cricket and Boxing to mention a few.

My fight collection is now up to approximately 3,700 individual boxing fights.

I’ve been reading a fair bit on Mayweather (Pretty Boy) recently, I’m not suggesting I’m in anyway that I’m more knowledgeable than any of you, I’m simply stating my opinion is based on what knowledge I have.

I neither dislike Floyd Mayweather or like him, I simply respect him as a boxer but what annoys me is when a few fans say he is the greatest etc and then a few peeps who say he’s rubbish etc because IMO neither of those statements are correct!

Let me give you a viewpoint Mayweather v De La Hoya, these two both fought not that long a go and as we know this went to a split decision. If we look at the facts it is clear that Mayweather moved up in weight to take on De La Hoya, it is also clear that De La Hoya was and is past his best, most certainly past his peak, and when you consider his successful promotional activities, he’s more businessman than boxer these days.

Anyway we are currently seeing Mayweather at his peak and the weight that best suits him is Welterweight, let’s take the recent Mayweather Vs. De La Hoya fight and then look back at a hungry and sharp De La Hoya at Welterweight and put them together in that scenario and I think we have an interesting outcome.

We see Mayweather at his peak but if a ‘past his prime’ De La Hoya could take Mayweather to a close split decision what does a prime De La Hoya do?

I stated before in some of my previous posts that the words Legend, All-Time Great and even Great are sometimes misused, whilst I except Mayweather is a Phenomenal Boxer he is not an all-time great!

I look back at some of the older fighters, let’s take Hagler for example, there was none of this bulls**t about “he brings nothing to the table”. Mugabi was a dangerous fighter I believe he had something like 25 fights all wins by KO. Hagler took the fight and stopped him, this is just one example.

At the time Mugabi was a dangerous fight and could be perceived as “bringing nothing to the table”, but Hagler had no issues with proving what he was about as a boxer/fighter.

People will argue, Mayweather has beaten everyone in his division etc, well no I disagree, why say “he brings nothing to the table” why not fight Cotto, Margarito, Williams, if you are as good as you say you are and want to go down as a ‘Great fighter’ then fight these guys and if Mayweather wins I will have no hesitation in giving him his props.

Yes times have changed, but I don’t agree with “well he’s beaten everyone out there” with only a hand full of fights, guys like Julio Cesar Chavez fought 100+ fights, even Hagler ended up with 60+ fights.

That leads me nicely onto yesterday. Yesterday I felt like watching some fights from Julio Cesar Chavez so I cleaned up the house knowing that I haven’t got to worry about food as I have plenty of Turkey and Vegetables left over to eat later, so I grabbed myself a few drinks and chilled out, I don’t usually drink but I like to let my hair down and re-charge the batteries every so often.

I decided on watching Chavez Vs. Roger Mayweather 1, 2 and Chavez Vs. Meldrick Taylor 1, 2. The fights I have included the original HBO pre-fight build up etc so it really takes you back in time and highlights the importance of each fight.

During and after I completed watching these fights it just re-confirmed how great Julio Cesar Chavez was as a boxer/fighter and how good he was for boxing.

I think at the age of 25-27 he was simply amazing, his work on the inside, his chin, his will to win and steadied aggression were simply wonderful to watch, I recall during the first Taylor fight and second Mayweather fight, the commentators seemed to be watching different fights, they failed to see early on the damage Chavez was doing in both of these fights. In both instances, just before the bout was over the two defeated fighters had nothing left.

You’re thinking where am I going with this? Well first of all I’m saying no doubt Julio Cesar Chavez is an all time great which I knew anyway and I don’t think anyone will disagree with that, it’s just a breath of fresh air to watch the fights again after so long. Secondly yes Chavez like many other greats fought on to long but forget that.

I feel a prime Chavez Vs. a prime De La Hoya (I know these to fought twice, but Chavez was not in his prime) would beat De La Hoya. A lot of Mayweather fans might not except this but yes a prime Chavez would also beat a prime Floyd Mayweather Jnr.

When I look back at the Hatton Vs. Mayweather fight after watching Chavez, I saw so many flaws in Hatton. Chavez’s head movement in his prime and creating angles to punch were simply sublime.

Let’s be fair, the first Castillo Vs. Mayweather fight was very close, let’s replace Castillo with a prime Chavez. Yes I know very interesting! I feel just to put it into perspective Chavez would TKO Hatton in about round 10 or 11 but that’s just my opinion.

Looking back I have to hold my hands up, I was one of a few who thought Hatton would beat Tszyu and he did, but I also thought Hatton could beat Mayweather, the closer the fight got the more I doubted if Hatton could.

If I look back and if I were to be completely professional, just look at a fighters face, that gives you a good idea of how good they are at not getting hit and if you look at Hatton’s face, you can clearly see he get’s hit!

Oh and whilst on the subject, I have to say I was totally and utterly disgusted by the chorus of boo’s from the British Hatton fans whilst the USA national anthem was playing or being sang as it where. I’m from England and I just thought that was disgusting, they went around drinking beer and shouting and singing “Hatton wonderland” and the Americans provided them with good hospitality and then for the British fans to ‘boo’ during the anthem was disgraceful, they should be ashamed of themselves!!

Anyway now that I have got that of my chest…

Fighters like Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Duran, Chavez and Louis to mention a very few are true greats and will only come around once in a while! So let’s not insult these all-time greats by calling ‘less a fighters’ all-time greats, these ’less a fighters’ who are undoubtedly very good, have some more work to do before they can be mentioned in the same breath as true greats!!!

The next fight I’ll be watching whilst enjoying the festive and New Year season will be Julio Cesar Chavez Vs. Hector Camacho, I know this was a fight Chavez wanted quite badly, it’ll be interesting to see the ‘clinic’ he puts on Camacho, I recall the scorecards read - judge: Dalby Shirley 117-111 | judge: Carol Castellano 119-110 | judge: Harry Gibbs 120-107.

In fact I'm going to put it on know.

We see Mayweather at his peak but if a ‘past his prime’ De La Hoya could take Mayweather to a close split decision what does a prime De La Hoya do?

Mayweather was not as his peak when he fought Oscar De La Hoya, Mayweather was about x2 times better at Super Featherweight. Mayweather beat Oscar De la Hoya by 4 or 3 rounds on my card. It wasn't a close fight at all.

look back at some of the older fighters, let’s take Hagler for example, there was none of this bulls**t about “he brings nothing to the table”. Mugabi was a dangerous fighter I believe he had something like 25 fights all wins by KO. Hagler took the fight and stopped him, this is just one example.

At the time Mugabi was a dangerous fight and could be perceived as “bringing nothing to the table”, but Hagler had no issues with proving what he was about as a boxer/fighter.

Mugabi is overrated by a lot of boxing fans, he never beat one good name coming into Hagler fight. And except for giving Hagler tough fight he was beaten to a pulp by the other elite fighters.

I feel a prime Chavez Vs. a prime De La Hoya (I know these to fought twice, but Chavez was not in his prime) would beat De La Hoya. A lot of Mayweather fans might not except this but yes a prime Chavez would also beat a prime Floyd Mayweather Jnr.

Chavez struggled with pure boxers, i think Mayweather would beat Chavez the same way Whitaker did. And why are you stating your opinions as facts ??

Yes times have changed, but I don’t agree with “well he’s beaten everyone out there” with only a hand full of fights, guys like Julio Cesar Chavez fought 100+ fights, even Hagler ended up with 60+ fights.

And most of Chavez's early fights were against cab drivers, so whats your point ?? you have to have handful of fights to have great opposition on your record ?? take a look at Oscar De La Hoya's record he hasn't fought nowhere near as many times as Hagler or Chavez. But just look at his opposition he has fought some of the best opposition in the history of the sport, your logic doesn't work for me.

Let’s be fair, the first Castillo Vs. Mayweather fight was very close, let’s replace Castillo with a prime Chavez. Yes I know very interesting! I feel just to put it into perspective Chavez would TKO Hatton in about round 10 or 11 but that’s just my opinion.

Yes lets be fair and remember Mayweather had bad shoulder injury in the 1st Castillo fight, and lets be fair and remember Mayweather totally out boxed Castillo in the rematch when he was 100 percent.

Or how about we replace Whitaker with Mayweather and put him in with Chavez who would win then ??

ICB you really put it on him hard.

In many way I agree with both of you.

If we want to be fair about a Prime for Prime match up between DLH and PBF we should also remember that DLH was probably also 2 times better as a Superfeatherweight. That he fought very few fights in that weight does not change the fact that he was very nearly unbeatable at the lower weightclasses. Like Mosley, what we consider DLH's prime should be around lightweight not welter were they got famous but lacked much of their power.

As for Chavez. Well I think it is safe to say that Mayweather has not faced a fighter like a prime Chavez. Yes Chavez has a record full of nobodies but he has some really good names there as well. Say what you want about Taylor but he really beat Taylor up like no one ever did before. And Taylor was a damn good fighter.

Yes Whitaker beat Chavez in most people's eyes. But again, lets be fair. Is this really a prime Chavez? He was after all 31 and had already fought 87 times.

Mayweather is a great fighter and there is no denying that. Lets see what happends. I hope to see him in the ring before the end of next year.

Originally Posted by Ice Cold Boxing

Originally Posted by Realitycheck77

I’ve been following all types of sports from a very early age (about the age of 8, I’m now 30), Football (soccer), Formula 1, Tennis, Cricket and Boxing to mention a few.

My fight collection is now up to approximately 3,700 individual boxing fights.

I’ve been reading a fair bit on Mayweather (Pretty Boy) recently, I’m not suggesting I’m in anyway that I’m more knowledgeable than any of you, I’m simply stating my opinion is based on what knowledge I have.

I neither dislike Floyd Mayweather or like him, I simply respect him as a boxer but what annoys me is when a few fans say he is the greatest etc and then a few peeps who say he’s rubbish etc because IMO neither of those statements are correct!

Let me give you a viewpoint Mayweather v De La Hoya, these two both fought not that long a go and as we know this went to a split decision. If we look at the facts it is clear that Mayweather moved up in weight to take on De La Hoya, it is also clear that De La Hoya was and is past his best, most certainly past his peak, and when you consider his successful promotional activities, he’s more businessman than boxer these days.

Anyway we are currently seeing Mayweather at his peak and the weight that best suits him is Welterweight, let’s take the recent Mayweather Vs. De La Hoya fight and then look back at a hungry and sharp De La Hoya at Welterweight and put them together in that scenario and I think we have an interesting outcome.

We see Mayweather at his peak but if a ‘past his prime’ De La Hoya could take Mayweather to a close split decision what does a prime De La Hoya do?

I stated before in some of my previous posts that the words Legend, All-Time Great and even Great are sometimes misused, whilst I except Mayweather is a Phenomenal Boxer he is not an all-time great!

I look back at some of the older fighters, let’s take Hagler for example, there was none of this bulls**t about “he brings nothing to the table”. Mugabi was a dangerous fighter I believe he had something like 25 fights all wins by KO. Hagler took the fight and stopped him, this is just one example.

At the time Mugabi was a dangerous fight and could be perceived as “bringing nothing to the table”, but Hagler had no issues with proving what he was about as a boxer/fighter.

People will argue, Mayweather has beaten everyone in his division etc, well no I disagree, why say “he brings nothing to the table” why not fight Cotto, Margarito, Williams, if you are as good as you say you are and want to go down as a ‘Great fighter’ then fight these guys and if Mayweather wins I will have no hesitation in giving him his props.

Yes times have changed, but I don’t agree with “well he’s beaten everyone out there” with only a hand full of fights, guys like Julio Cesar Chavez fought 100+ fights, even Hagler ended up with 60+ fights.

That leads me nicely onto yesterday. Yesterday I felt like watching some fights from Julio Cesar Chavez so I cleaned up the house knowing that I haven’t got to worry about food as I have plenty of Turkey and Vegetables left over to eat later, so I grabbed myself a few drinks and chilled out, I don’t usually drink but I like to let my hair down and re-charge the batteries every so often.

I decided on watching Chavez Vs. Roger Mayweather 1, 2 and Chavez Vs. Meldrick Taylor 1, 2. The fights I have included the original HBO pre-fight build up etc so it really takes you back in time and highlights the importance of each fight.

During and after I completed watching these fights it just re-confirmed how great Julio Cesar Chavez was as a boxer/fighter and how good he was for boxing.

I think at the age of 25-27 he was simply amazing, his work on the inside, his chin, his will to win and steadied aggression were simply wonderful to watch, I recall during the first Taylor fight and second Mayweather fight, the commentators seemed to be watching different fights, they failed to see early on the damage Chavez was doing in both of these fights. In both instances, just before the bout was over the two defeated fighters had nothing left.

You’re thinking where am I going with this? Well first of all I’m saying no doubt Julio Cesar Chavez is an all time great which I knew anyway and I don’t think anyone will disagree with that, it’s just a breath of fresh air to watch the fights again after so long. Secondly yes Chavez like many other greats fought on to long but forget that.

I feel a prime Chavez Vs. a prime De La Hoya (I know these to fought twice, but Chavez was not in his prime) would beat De La Hoya. A lot of Mayweather fans might not except this but yes a prime Chavez would also beat a prime Floyd Mayweather Jnr.

When I look back at the Hatton Vs. Mayweather fight after watching Chavez, I saw so many flaws in Hatton. Chavez’s head movement in his prime and creating angles to punch were simply sublime.

Let’s be fair, the first Castillo Vs. Mayweather fight was very close, let’s replace Castillo with a prime Chavez. Yes I know very interesting! I feel just to put it into perspective Chavez would TKO Hatton in about round 10 or 11 but that’s just my opinion.

Looking back I have to hold my hands up, I was one of a few who thought Hatton would beat Tszyu and he did, but I also thought Hatton could beat Mayweather, the closer the fight got the more I doubted if Hatton could.

If I look back and if I were to be completely professional, just look at a fighters face, that gives you a good idea of how good they are at not getting hit and if you look at Hatton’s face, you can clearly see he get’s hit!

Oh and whilst on the subject, I have to say I was totally and utterly disgusted by the chorus of boo’s from the British Hatton fans whilst the USA national anthem was playing or being sang as it where. I’m from England and I just thought that was disgusting, they went around drinking beer and shouting and singing “Hatton wonderland” and the Americans provided them with good hospitality and then for the British fans to ‘boo’ during the anthem was disgraceful, they should be ashamed of themselves!!

Anyway now that I have got that of my chest…

Fighters like Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Duran, Chavez and Louis to mention a very few are true greats and will only come around once in a while! So let’s not insult these all-time greats by calling ‘less a fighters’ all-time greats, these ’less a fighters’ who are undoubtedly very good, have some more work to do before they can be mentioned in the same breath as true greats!!!

The next fight I’ll be watching whilst enjoying the festive and New Year season will be Julio Cesar Chavez Vs. Hector Camacho, I know this was a fight Chavez wanted quite badly, it’ll be interesting to see the ‘clinic’ he puts on Camacho, I recall the scorecards read - judge: Dalby Shirley 117-111 | judge: Carol Castellano 119-110 | judge: Harry Gibbs 120-107.

In fact I'm going to put it on know.

We see Mayweather at his peak but if a ‘past his prime’ De La Hoya could take Mayweather to a close split decision what does a prime De La Hoya do?

Mayweather was not as his peak when he fought Oscar De La Hoya, Mayweather was about x2 times better at Super Featherweight. Mayweather beat Oscar De la Hoya by 4 or 3 rounds on my card. It wasn't a close fight at all.

look back at some of the older fighters, let’s take Hagler for example, there was none of this bulls**t about “he brings nothing to the table”. Mugabi was a dangerous fighter I believe he had something like 25 fights all wins by KO. Hagler took the fight and stopped him, this is just one example.

At the time Mugabi was a dangerous fight and could be perceived as “bringing nothing to the table”, but Hagler had no issues with proving what he was about as a boxer/fighter.

Mugabi is overrated by a lot of boxing fans, he never beat one good name coming into Hagler fight. And except for giving Hagler tough fight he was beaten to a pulp by the other elite fighters.

I feel a prime Chavez Vs. a prime De La Hoya (I know these to fought twice, but Chavez was not in his prime) would beat De La Hoya. A lot of Mayweather fans might not except this but yes a prime Chavez would also beat a prime Floyd Mayweather Jnr.

Chavez struggled with pure boxers, i think Mayweather would beat Chavez the same way Whitaker did. And why are you stating your opinions as facts ??

Yes times have changed, but I don’t agree with “well he’s beaten everyone out there” with only a hand full of fights, guys like Julio Cesar Chavez fought 100+ fights, even Hagler ended up with 60+ fights.

And most of Chavez's early fights were against cab drivers, so whats your point ?? you have to have handful of fights to have great opposition on your record ?? take a look at Oscar De La Hoya's record he hasn't fought nowhere near as many times as Hagler or Chavez. But just look at his opposition he has fought some of the best opposition in the history of the sport, your logic doesn't work for me.

Let’s be fair, the first Castillo Vs. Mayweather fight was very close, let’s replace Castillo with a prime Chavez. Yes I know very interesting! I feel just to put it into perspective Chavez would TKO Hatton in about round 10 or 11 but that’s just my opinion.

Yes lets be fair and remember Mayweather had bad shoulder injury in the 1st Castillo fight, and lets be fair and remember Mayweather totally out boxed Castillo in the rematch when he was 100 percent.

Or how about we replace Whitaker with Mayweather and put him in with Chavez who would win then ??

And most of Chavez's early fights were against cab drivers, so whats your point ?? you have to have handful of fights to have great opposition on your record ?? take a look at Oscar De La Hoya's record he hasn't fought nowhere near as many times as Hagler or Chavez. But just look at his opposition he has fought some of the best opposition in the history of the sport, your logic doesn't work for me.

It's FAIR to say Greg Huagen answered the question about the cab drivers?

and in IMO De La Hoya is not an ALLTIME Great boxer/fighter, yes he was one of the first to be explosive on your TV sets and all the media stuff, but he does not rank in the greats.

At SuperFeather and thats where you put PF Mayweather at his peak, Chavez fought from 1980 to 1987 at SuperFeather and his last fight was against Cabrera. then he moved up to Lightweight to beat Rosario, Chavez beats Mayweather.

How is CHavez that much greater than Mayweather or Dela Hoya? he is certainly one of the best mexicans to ever fight, but he was badly being outboxed by Meldrick Taylor before he ko'ed a guy who fought the wrong fight. Whitaker outboxed him, Dela Hoya tore him up. Obviously Mayweather isn't the greatest, but the reasons you give for him not being the greatest are wrong. Is he the greatest boxer? No, but p4p is he one of the most skilled to ever fight? Of course, there are maybe ten fighters who have ever foughten who possess his skills. People forget he is a natural 130 pounder fighting these way bigger guys and beating them badly. There are only a few guys in history who have done it to the same degree and they are guys like Leonard, Roy JOnes Jr., Robinson, Henry Armstrong... I was just watching ROy Jones Jr. and I can't see how people can't think he is in the top 20 p4p... People psychologically have a nostalgic view on sports. Hell Jim Brown said football players can't hit nowadays yet on average they are hitting almost twice as hard(pounds per square inch) as people did in his day. REgardless people who deny that Mayweather is one of the most talented guys to ever box are smoking something. Would he beat RObinson, or Gavilan or Turpin? Who knows, but they are natural welterweights and he ISN'T. Bring the 130 version of Mayweather up and its a way closer fight. To say he isn't as good as Robinson is fair enough, but to say Robinson is way out of his league is crap IMO because all those top guys had challenges from lesser opponents than Floyd or Roy Jones or even Oscar Dela Hoya.