Originally Posted by RP33

Originally Posted by brucelee

I respect you for not believing in God. That's your belief. But...... if I can do something to prove the existence of God I'll do it over and over again in this thread...... That's what my belief tells me so.

and there lies, what i believe, was the logic behind "creating" religion.. To keep people sane, and to keep society in peace..

but unfortunately it has created more problems and wars than it has solved..

If everyone had the attitude that you have Bruce then the world would be a better place.. but everyone has a problem understanding others.. a "my way is right, your way is wrong" ..

same shit goes for people who are gay.. in fact, that's even worse considering being gay is mainly genetic.. so it's not even like you choose to be gay like you can choose to not be religious..
why should i have a problem with gay people, or why should i have a say in if they should be able to get married or not..? I shouldn't, yet gay marriage is illegal.. fucking people man are so closed minded.

In my mind, people who have a problem with gay people are pretty much in the same camp as racists and bigots of all sorts. I just they're just scared of something that threatens their comfort zone or whatever, but it makes no sense to me. My perspective has always been why should I care if someone is gay or not, all it means is that they're attracted to men/women, what does it really matter? It's the character of the individual that is important.
Of course, there's always the argument that most people who hate homosexuals have latent homosexual tendancies, IE the ultra-conservative senators who are found trying to solicite sex in airport bathrooms.
Oh, and if some gay people are stupid enough to want to get married, I saw let them. It's not like us straight people are the only ones who should be allowed to make mistakes.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Missy

well if that's the case you won't go because you're being dishonest whereas I will get in for being a good person.

But wouldn't your idea of dishonest and good have to match that of God's for you to get into Heaven?

Why don't you ask your old friends at home with God.com

It's worth a try.

My point is it's impossible to believe that getting in to heaven comes down to good and bad, when everybody's idea of good or bad can be completely different.

Originally Posted by CFH

In my mind, people who have a problem with gay people are pretty much in the same camp as racists and bigots of all sorts. I just they're just scared of something that threatens their comfort zone or whatever, but it makes no sense to me. My perspective has always been why should I care if someone is gay or not, all it means is that they're attracted to men/women, what does it really matter? It's the character of the individual that is important.
Of course, there's always the argument that most people who hate homosexuals have latent homosexual tendancies, IE the ultra-conservative senators who are found trying to solicite sex in airport bathrooms.
Oh, and if some gay people are stupid enough to want to get married, I saw let them. It's not like us straight people are the only ones who should be allowed to make mistakes.

right.. i agree..

i mean, i don't wanna see gay guys making out or anything, that's the only thing.. but it has nothing to do with being homophobic or anything, i just don't wanna see that shit..

it's like.. i don't wanna see fat people making out.. same thing

okay.. i don't want to see ANYONE making out but just saying specifically homosexuals/overweight individuals bother me.. You don't see fat asses making out on Days of Our Lives do you? I rest my case.

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by ono

But wouldn't your idea of dishonest and good have to match that of God's for you to get into Heaven?

Why don't you ask your old friends at home with God.com

It's worth a try.

My point is it's impossible to believe that getting in to heaven comes down to good and bad, when everybody's idea of good or bad can be completely different.

You have a very valid point of view Ono.

It's really difficult to define goodness and badness. Every one would reason out that being good or bad is a state of mind. For example, for the terrorists, bombing and killing people for the sake of their god/God and religion is a good deed. For the victims, it is beyond pardon. How do we reconcile this dilemma then?

Let me give my perceived solution. Supposing the terrorist is a Muslim, we should identify the reason why he would resort to violence. Usually, these terrorists would say that they are doing a Holy War as mandated by the Koran.Let me then ask, does the Koran really command people to kill others? I believe most Muslims would not agree to that. As far as I know, there are still more peace loving Muslims than Muslim terrorists.

I am convinced that if these Muslim terrorists would only follow the commandments of Allah in the Koran, they would not resort to violence. Besides, Jesus as one of their prophets, never preached violent solutions to problems.


For the unbelievers, if they would only read the Bible or even the Koran, they would find out that those books are not simply written by human inspirations.

As a Christian, I chose to use the Bible as the basis of my belief of what is good or bad because the bible's principles have already stood the tests of time.

It's really very difficult to defend the Bible to people who haven't read it or to people who chose not to believe in it. Again, I am bound by the "rule of respecting the beliefs of others".

In the end, only time will tell whether who is right or wrong. As a Christian, i believe that there is a judgment time for all of us. If it will happen in the future, I hope that I find myself worthy of my God.

If it does not happen and if there is really no resurrection and judgment of the dead, then time will tell that I am wrong. But surely, I will still be proud to say that I have not lived my life in vain by following the commandments of the Bible because I lived a peaceful life here on earth.

I am happy and contented with my life because the Bible told me to be so and I'm grateful to God for the Bible.

With this I will rest my case to the test of time.

I'm of the belief that after life there is nothing....which generally makes life pointless. So if you personally believe in something, then i am very jealous of you. It gives you direction and hope, which i have to say i am sadly lacking in. I can't bring myself to believe in the supernatural so i'm of the opinion that every achievement i make on earth will all be irrelevant when i die.

Originally Posted by ono

I'm of the belief that after life there is nothing....which generally makes life pointless. So if you personally believe in something, then i am very jealous of you. It gives you direction and hope, which i have to say i am sadly lacking in. I can't bring myself to believe in the supernatural so i'm of the opinion that every achievement i make on earth will all be irrelevant when i die.

i'm basically the same way..

as much as i want to have kids, and be a dad and start a family, i have trouble mentally supporting it.. cause it's like, why am i going to force someone else to go through this "pointless" cycle..

we've all felt like we just wish we were never born in the first place......

Originally Posted by RP33

Originally Posted by ono

I'm of the belief that after life there is nothing....which generally makes life pointless. So if you personally believe in something, then i am very jealous of you. It gives you direction and hope, which i have to say i am sadly lacking in. I can't bring myself to believe in the supernatural so i'm of the opinion that every achievement i make on earth will all be irrelevant when i die.

i'm basically the same way..

as much as i want to have kids, and be a dad and start a family, i have trouble mentally supporting it.. cause it's like, why am i going to force someone else to go through this "pointless" cycle..

we've all felt like we just wish we were never born in the first place......

You miserable old gits

Originally Posted by CFH

Originally Posted by RP33

Originally Posted by brucelee

I respect you for not believing in God. That's your belief. But...... if I can do something to prove the existence of God I'll do it over and over again in this thread...... That's what my belief tells me so.

and there lies, what i believe, was the logic behind "creating" religion.. To keep people sane, and to keep society in peace..

but unfortunately it has created more problems and wars than it has solved..

If everyone had the attitude that you have Bruce then the world would be a better place.. but everyone has a problem understanding others.. a "my way is right, your way is wrong" ..

same shit goes for people who are gay.. in fact, that's even worse considering being gay is mainly genetic.. so it's not even like you choose to be gay like you can choose to not be religious..
why should i have a problem with gay people, or why should i have a say in if they should be able to get married or not..? I shouldn't, yet gay marriage is illegal.. fucking people man are so closed minded.

In my mind, people who have a problem with gay people are pretty much in the same camp as racists and bigots of all sorts. I just they're just scared of something that threatens their comfort zone or whatever, but it makes no sense to me. My perspective has always been why should I care if someone is gay or not, all it means is that they're attracted to men/women, what does it really matter? It's the character of the individual that is important.
Of course, there's always the argument that most people who hate homosexuals have latent homosexual tendancies, IE the ultra-conservative senators who are found trying to solicite sex in airport bathrooms.
Oh, and if some gay people are stupid enough to want to get married, I saw let them. It's not like us straight people are the only ones who should be allowed to make mistakes.

HAhaha yeah who gets the dildo in the divorce if they both use it
Good points though bro.
Anyone who has any problem with anyone else has a real problem within themselves and they are trying the old ego mental trick of
(If I can make him wrong then that must make me right )!

Its not right or wrong its judgment and its a deadly trap cause its created from within themselves so someone cant be freed from it until they themselves choose otherwise.
That is why judgment is warned about ,not because others above our level will judge us in return, but because it is self entrapment and self perpetuating so it will keep comming around.

Originally Posted by brucelee

Originally Posted by ono

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Why don't you ask your old friends at home with God.com

It's worth a try.

My point is it's impossible to believe that getting in to heaven comes down to good and bad, when everybody's idea of good or bad can be completely different.

You have a very valid point of view Ono.

It's really difficult to define goodness and badness. Every one would reason out that being good or bad is a state of mind. For example, for the terrorists, bombing and killing people for the sake of their god/God and religion is a good deed. For the victims, it is beyond pardon. How do we reconcile this dilemma then?

Let me give my perceived solution. Supposing the terrorist is a Muslim, we should identify the reason why he would resort to violence. Usually, these terrorists would say that they are doing a Holy War as mandated by the Koran.Let me then ask, does the Koran really command people to kill others? I believe most Muslims would not agree to that. As far as I know, there are still more peace loving Muslims than Muslim terrorists.

I am convinced that if these Muslim terrorists would only follow the commandments of Allah in the Koran, they would not resort to violence. Besides, Jesus as one of their prophets, never preached violent solutions to problems.


For the unbelievers, if they would only read the Bible or even the Koran, they would find out that those books are not simply written by human inspirations.

As a Christian, I chose to use the Bible as the basis of my belief of what is good or bad because the bible's principles have already stood the tests of time.

It's really very difficult to defend the Bible to people who haven't read it or to people who chose not to believe in it. Again, I am bound by the "rule of respecting the beliefs of others".

In the end, only time will tell whether who is right or wrong. As a Christian, i believe that there is a judgment time for all of us. If it will happen in the future, I hope that I find myself worthy of my God.

If it does not happen and if there is really no resurrection and judgment of the dead, then time will tell that I am wrong. But surely, I will still be proud to say that I have not lived my life in vain by following the commandments of the Bible because I lived a peaceful life here on earth.

I am happy and contented with my life because the Bible told me to be so and I'm grateful to God for the Bible.

With this I will rest my case to the test of time.

And if you go one stage back from the bible and read the scriptures of the Summarians you will find the bible got many of their belifes from there .
The rules or commandments were actually once a set of directions so you could grow into what you wish to easier.

Heaven has levels ,dimensions have levels ,there isnt just one or the other ,white and black ,good and evil the whole thing is so much larger than opposities and one stupid decision makes or breaks you..That is what we get to experience only from this 'duality' point of view, expand a bit.

It's always good to see someone proud of their beliefs no matter what they are and confident enough to speak up and stand by them.

Personally I don't have faith... in a way I'd like to have it - there have been times in my life when I could have used it - when my father passed away - when my marriage broke up for example. It's not a concious choice really you either believe or you don't - I don't. Family is my religion - I've learnt the hard way that the only people I can ever really count on are myself and my family.

I live my life pretty much the way a chrisitian would I suppose - I don't hate because of skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation, status or religious beliefs. The ideals of equality, compassion and freedom are principles that I have always lived by - I just don't believe that a God will reward me with eternal life at the end of it all. I can handle that...

Originally Posted by RP33

Originally Posted by ono

I'm of the belief that after life there is nothing....which generally makes life pointless. So if you personally believe in something, then i am very jealous of you. It gives you direction and hope, which i have to say i am sadly lacking in. I can't bring myself to believe in the supernatural so i'm of the opinion that every achievement i make on earth will all be irrelevant when i die.

i'm basically the same way..

as much as i want to have kids, and be a dad and start a family, i have trouble mentally supporting it.. cause it's like, why am i going to force someone else to go through this "pointless" cycle..

we've all felt like we just wish we were never born in the first place......

If you do something for someone who needs help specially a stranger, you will find those feelings will dissapear the more you go there.

There's a true expression. You cannot give away what you don't fully own.
This is true in so many areas, sickness is one of them, if you place the blame for your body deteriorating outside of yourself ,you have lost control over the areas that you can help yourself in.

Ownership of physical stuff or power over other people is an external thing that so many people place their whole life and all their power into .

The richest man is the one who knows he has enough.

It is not uncommon for people who have chosen to experience universal love within themselves, to want less of everything else as it is all extra baggage at a point and gets in the way.

Ask and you shall recieve.

But at the end of the day the best thing is a
balance of feeling, thoughts and body health.
Or in other words spiritual ,mental and physical.

Feelings are ment to be the root of your thought,speach and physical action is ment to come after. That is the natural way to flow but we all get it ass way around at times and its self destructive and addictive.

Originally Posted by Shamrock

It's always good to see someone proud of their beliefs no matter what they are and confident enough to speak up and stand by them.

Personally I don't have faith... in a way I'd like to have it - there have been times in my life when I could have used it - when my father passed away - when my marriage broke up for example. It's not a concious choice really you either believe or you don't - I don't. Family is my religion - I've learnt the hard way that the only people I can ever really count on are myself and my family.

I live my life pretty much the way a chrisitian would I suppose - I don't hate because of skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation, status or religious beliefs. The ideals of equality, compassion and freedom are principles that I have always lived by - I just don't believe that a God will reward me with eternal life at the end of it all. I can handle that...

Good for you mate, right on many levels ,
God wont reward you with it , you have it already .
By the way, your family is alot bigger than you think.

Originally Posted by Andre

Originally Posted by Shamrock

It's always good to see someone proud of their beliefs no matter what they are and confident enough to speak up and stand by them.

Personally I don't have faith... in a way I'd like to have it - there have been times in my life when I could have used it - when my father passed away - when my marriage broke up for example. It's not a concious choice really you either believe or you don't - I don't. Family is my religion - I've learnt the hard way that the only people I can ever really count on are myself and my family.

I live my life pretty much the way a chrisitian would I suppose - I don't hate because of skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation, status or religious beliefs. The ideals of equality, compassion and freedom are principles that I have always lived by - I just don't believe that a God will reward me with eternal life at the end of it all. I can handle that...

Good for you mate, right on many levels ,
God wont reward you with it , you have it already .
By the way, your family is alot bigger than you think.

Kinda blows that if there is a heaven I won't get in for not believing even though I've led a good life... yet you get people who hate and lie and do worse who find God at the end and they get a free pass

Originally Posted by Missy

Originally Posted by brucelee

Originally Posted by Missy

I say you're going to burn in hell for eternity.


I say I'm having a nice time right now and one day I will die and that's the end of it.

Just think about this Missy. If I'm right that God really exists and I believe in HIM, then I'm going to heaven/paradise. If I believe in HIM and HE really does not exist, I have nothing to lose. I die but I live a peaceful life.


If I don't believe in HIM and HE really exists, then I go to hell. If I don't believe in HIM and He really does not exist then I lost nothing but I would have lived a problematic life coz i could be doing some really bad things then.

So what would you choose?


The sane man would choose to believe.




I guess....

well if that's the case you won't go because you're being dishonest whereas I will get in for being a good person.

Hey Mizzy, you got quite a number of haters here but let me tell you that pinoys should be the last ones you should be hating, never mind the Barrera-pac thing. You know why? Cuz Philippines is the most gay open and tolerant country in the world. As a matter of fact, the most popular pinoy guy on the net is a gay guy who goes by the name bryanboy whose world famous website is all about flaunting his gayism. I remember when as a kid I came here on vacation in the 70's and what really shocked me was that gays were openly acting as gays here then and there were lots of them. That probably encouraged many guys here to be gays cuz almost everyone here has a gay brother, cousin or uncles. I had a gay uncle and I have a gay nephew here, not to mention the cousins. We even have several gays in the neighborhood. I watched some old movies here and I learned that as early as the 50's, they had accepted gays here coz there were some actors taking gays roles in those old films.

So Mizzy, I won't say any sissy things like let's be friends, but I think it's about time you stop picking on us. I can assure you one thing. When you come here, nobody will put you down, or make fun of you, or harass you just because someone is a gay. They're almost fully accepted here. Just ask some pinoys here.

[Attention mods, if you find this post inappropriate, you may do whatever you wish with it, just don't send it to the spammer.]

Originally Posted by Shamrock

Originally Posted by Andre

Originally Posted by Shamrock

It's always good to see someone proud of their beliefs no matter what they are and confident enough to speak up and stand by them.

Personally I don't have faith... in a way I'd like to have it - there have been times in my life when I could have used it - when my father passed away - when my marriage broke up for example. It's not a concious choice really you either believe or you don't - I don't. Family is my religion - I've learnt the hard way that the only people I can ever really count on are myself and my family.

I live my life pretty much the way a chrisitian would I suppose - I don't hate because of skin colour, nationality, sexual orientation, status or religious beliefs. The ideals of equality, compassion and freedom are principles that I have always lived by - I just don't believe that a God will reward me with eternal life at the end of it all. I can handle that...

Good for you mate, right on many levels ,
God wont reward you with it , you have it already .
By the way, your family is alot bigger than you think.

Kinda blows that if there is a heaven I won't get in for not believing even though I've led a good life... yet you get people who hate and lie and do worse who find God at the end and they get a free pass

No they dont, but they may chooce to go up from the level they exist on and are allowed to start that progression at any time ,of course. But they wont get through the next level if they are holding onto and want to bring certain extra luggage with them.
For obvious reasons you have to at some point drop some stuff in order to move along.
The next level up is only one level up, call it by a name (heaven),It has other names in other launguages too ; its not the highest realm, you can experience it right here and people do; same for the level below us, you can experience it here as well and people do just look around there is no real secrets its all here to see if you look.
There are many levels in many existances and each work the same;
As above so below. it was written in all the books not just the bible or the koran ,they have just paired the whole thing down into a simple do this or do that ,get this or get that, a simple here and there only, so the basic concept or the first step forwards could be grasped by all their people. The Love that extends down from the highest realm is of course "unconditional" it cant and it wont punish, it is the highest GOD of ALL ,all stemmed from it.