Haven't ever seen these fights but i heard Muhammad took a pasting in both fights, was Muhammad past his prime when he fought Qawi ??

I don't think so Qawi was just a buzzsaw constantly pressuring. If you look Saad always had problems turning oppenents and fighting with angles.

Matt Franklin had power and tons of heart but Dwight Braxton was just a bad style for him , Dwight was durable ( went the distance with Spinks ) had a good work rate and was a buzzsaw of a pressure fighter. Just a bad style for Franklin.
Were great fights for sure.

I think those fights against Qawi took a lot out of Saad Muhammad, look at his record after the second fight, he goes on to lose about half of his remaining fights, against not the greatest fighters. I think he was definately in his prime going into the first fight. Qawi just hit too hard, he was like a smaller version of Joe Frazier. Saad Muhammad was the kind to take 2 to give one and that would never work against Qawi.

Originally Posted by ICB

Haven't ever seen these fights but i heard Muhammad took a pasting in both fights, was Muhammad past his prime when he fought Qawi ??

SURELY SOMEONE MUST HAVE A LICK SO ICE CAN WATCH THESE FIGHTS ?

Saad was slightly past his prime when he fought braxton. His absolute prime was around the 2nd Lopez fight in 1980. I agree, Braxton was just a bad style for him. plus he came in heavy and obviously didn't train his best. He underestimated Braxton. The second fight was sad. Saad took a tremendous pounding, and was shot from that time onward. It's too bad Saad didn't avoid Braxton. Had he made one more defense, a unification fight with Michael Spinks was in the works. I believe Spinks was a better style for Saad and it would have been a good fight.

Um Quawi is an absolute beast,IMO he beat Holyfield in their first fight. I don't have problem seeing him beat any cruiserweight or lightheavyweight unless they are really good counter punchers who could stay away from him. He reminded me of a more powerful Glen Johnson.

Yeah, Qawi was mean and intimidating. I'm pretty sure he learned his trade and started his pro career in prison, at Rahway, they had a good boxing program there. Not sure if they still do.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Um Quawi is an absolute beast,IMO he beat Holyfield in their first fight. I don't have problem seeing him beat any cruiserweight or lightheavyweight unless they are really good counter punchers who could stay away from him. He reminded me of a more powerful Glen Johnson.

A Novice Holyfield took on Qwai, while never having been past 6 rounds, and only 11 pro bouts, and he was total class....it was kinda early in Evander's career to take on a fighter of qwai's experience, but Evander diod it, went the distance, and BEAT Him....even with all of the LOEW Blows Qwai threw, and was warned about!!!

I was living in suburban Philly at the time and Miracle Matthew was seen as a municipal treasure. EVERYONE could hit Saad. Of course for about five years that only led to incredible comebacks. By the time he ran into Qawi Saad had had wars with The Indian twice, Marvin twice , Billy Douglas and Richie Kates. He wasn't shot or anything close but he may have been just a little worn. Still in his pirme but maybe past his absolute peak.

Qawi literally was a Buzzsaw. He hit Saad a lot early, like everyone did, but when Saad tried to mount one of his comebacks Qawi would just hit the accelerator and step on his throat. Qawi deserves full credit for those wins and he finished Saad as a top fighter.

Hello,
I too was from Philly, and used to watch Saad spar with Steve Traitz, and other fighters, Curtis Parker, Bennie Briscoe, LeRoy Diggs...and so on. Saad was a very humble and nice person outside the Ring....and to the Public. A couple of Fighters that I didn't care for, fromn the area in those time, were Qwai, Frank Animal Fletcher...and even Eddie Gregory.....But saad, you just had to like him!!! best, Ray

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I was living in suburban Philly at the time and Miracle Matthew was seen as a municipal treasure. EVERYONE could hit Saad. Of course for about five years that only led to incredible comebacks. By the time he ran into Qawi Saad had had wars with The Indian twice, Marvin twice , Billy Douglas and Richie Kates. He wasn't shot or anything close but he may have been just a little worn. Still in his pirme but maybe past his absolute peak.

Qawi literally was a Buzzsaw. He hit Saad a lot early, like everyone did, but when Saad tried to mount one of his comebacks Qawi would just hit the accelerator and step on his throat. Qawi deserves full credit for those wins and he finished Saad as a top fighter.

Originally Posted by rayr0683

Hello,
I too was from Philly, and used to watch Saad spar with Steve Traitz, and other fighters, Curtis Parker, Bennie Briscoe, LeRoy Diggs...and so on. Saad was a very humble and nice person outside the Ring....and to the Public. A couple of Fighters that I didn't care for, fromn the area in those time, were Qwai, Frank Animal Fletcher...and even Eddie Gregory.....But saad, you just had to like him!!! best, Ray

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I was living in suburban Philly at the time and Miracle Matthew was seen as a municipal treasure. EVERYONE could hit Saad. Of course for about five years that only led to incredible comebacks. By the time he ran into Qawi Saad had had wars with The Indian twice, Marvin twice , Billy Douglas and Richie Kates. He wasn't shot or anything close but he may have been just a little worn. Still in his pirme but maybe past his absolute peak.

Qawi literally was a Buzzsaw. He hit Saad a lot early, like everyone did, but when Saad tried to mount one of his comebacks Qawi would just hit the accelerator and step on his throat. Qawi deserves full credit for those wins and he finished Saad as a top fighter.

Steve Traitz? Now there is a name I haven't thought about for 30 years! Some high school friends of mine trained with him. Wasn't the Blue Horizon fun in those days? Philly had some truly tough guys.

Hello,
And yes, your Right!!! Great Days!!! I myself, trained with a guy named gary Roemhild, at Willie Reddish Gym, in Frankford...Griscom and Sellers Streets.......Curtis Parker was Willi's Number One Man at the Time....Curtis was 12-0 when I started at Reddish....and he was considered to be a Possible Contender to Hagler....but never happened. I was also friends with Billy Padden, at Reddish Gym...he is now a Pro Boxing Trainer in Florida!! But Stevie Traitz was an amazing Fighter....I figured he would have gone much farther as a Pro!!! I too remember Big Joe Thomas...The Heavyweight that mr. Traitz trained...and he went on to become the National Golden Gloves Heavyweight Champion, in Shrevesport,LA....in 1981. Huge Heavyweight...he fought at same time, and beat Tyrell Biggs....Lost to James Broad....and Marvis Frazier too was from same time as Joe Thomas...I like Joe Thomas alot...He too I thought would have gone far!!! Best, Ray

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Originally Posted by rayr0683

Hello,
I too was from Philly, and used to watch Saad spar with Steve Traitz, and other fighters, Curtis Parker, Bennie Briscoe, LeRoy Diggs...and so on. Saad was a very humble and nice person outside the Ring....and to the Public. A couple of Fighters that I didn't care for, fromn the area in those time, were Qwai, Frank Animal Fletcher...and even Eddie Gregory.....But saad, you just had to like him!!! best, Ray

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I was living in suburban Philly at the time and Miracle Matthew was seen as a municipal treasure. EVERYONE could hit Saad. Of course for about five years that only led to incredible comebacks. By the time he ran into Qawi Saad had had wars with The Indian twice, Marvin twice , Billy Douglas and Richie Kates. He wasn't shot or anything close but he may have been just a little worn. Still in his pirme but maybe past his absolute peak.

Qawi literally was a Buzzsaw. He hit Saad a lot early, like everyone did, but when Saad tried to mount one of his comebacks Qawi would just hit the accelerator and step on his throat. Qawi deserves full credit for those wins and he finished Saad as a top fighter.

Steve Traitz? Now there is a name I haven't thought about for 30 years! Some high school friends of mine trained with him. Wasn't the Blue Horizon fun in those days? Philly had some truly tough guys.

Originally Posted by rayr0683

Hello,
And yes, your Right!!! Great Days!!! I myself, trained with a guy named gary Roemhild, at Willie Reddish Gym, in Frankford...Griscom and Sellers Streets.......Curtis Parker was Willi's Number One Man at the Time....Curtis was 12-0 when I started at Reddish....and he was considered to be a Possible Contender to Hagler....but never happened. I was also friends with Billy Padden, at Reddish Gym...he is now a Pro Boxing Trainer in Florida!! But Stevie Traitz was an amazing Fighter....I figured he would have gone much farther as a Pro!!! I too remember Big Joe Thomas...The Heavyweight that mr. Traitz trained...and he went on to become the National Golden Gloves Heavyweight Champion, in Shrevesport,LA....in 1981. Huge Heavyweight...he fought at same time, and beat Tyrell Biggs....Lost to James Broad....and Marvis Frazier too was from same time as Joe Thomas...I like Joe Thomas alot...He too I thought would have gone far!!! Best, Ray

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

Originally Posted by rayr0683

Hello,
I too was from Philly, and used to watch Saad spar with Steve Traitz, and other fighters, Curtis Parker, Bennie Briscoe, LeRoy Diggs...and so on. Saad was a very humble and nice person outside the Ring....and to the Public. A couple of Fighters that I didn't care for, fromn the area in those time, were Qwai, Frank Animal Fletcher...and even Eddie Gregory.....But saad, you just had to like him!!! best, Ray

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I was living in suburban Philly at the time and Miracle Matthew was seen as a municipal treasure. EVERYONE could hit Saad. Of course for about five years that only led to incredible comebacks. By the time he ran into Qawi Saad had had wars with The Indian twice, Marvin twice , Billy Douglas and Richie Kates. He wasn't shot or anything close but he may have been just a little worn. Still in his pirme but maybe past his absolute peak.

Qawi literally was a Buzzsaw. He hit Saad a lot early, like everyone did, but when Saad tried to mount one of his comebacks Qawi would just hit the accelerator and step on his throat. Qawi deserves full credit for those wins and he finished Saad as a top fighter.

Steve Traitz? Now there is a name I haven't thought about for 30 years! Some high school friends of mine trained with him. Wasn't the Blue Horizon fun in those days? Philly had some truly tough guys.

Joe Thomas lived in Phoenixville where I went to HS. The town was pretty bummed when he got KO'd on the undercard of a Ray Mercer fight in AC. Another local boy was a friend of my little brother's Jimmy Deoria. Lightweight I think. His Dad trained guys at Front Street in Philly. Pretty good little fighter. But he stepped up to fight Angel Manfredy and Charles Murray and that was that.

Originally Posted by rayr0683

Originally Posted by Taeth

Um Quawi is an absolute beast,IMO he beat Holyfield in their first fight. I don't have problem seeing him beat any cruiserweight or lightheavyweight unless they are really good counter punchers who could stay away from him. He reminded me of a more powerful Glen Johnson.

A Novice Holyfield took on Qwai, while never having been past 6 rounds, and only 11 pro bouts, and he was total class....it was kinda early in Evander's career to take on a fighter of qwai's experience, but Evander diod it, went the distance, and BEAT Him....even with all of the LOEW Blows Qwai threw, and was warned about!!!

That was a brutal fight for Holyfield who had to go to hospital for dehydration.