Thread: Still doubting Berto?

He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.

I like Berto. He has great skills. But i think welters like Margarito, Cotto and Williams beat him

Originally Posted by Taeth

He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.

The potential is there, its just will he produce when he's in with the big boys

Beating Forbes is not the measuring stick of Berto's potential. I still have reservations about him. I wouldnt mind seeing him face Mosely, that would tell us more. Mosley probably has other plans though, and a ticking clock to beat. Maybe Clottey would be an interesting one to make, or even Cintron for the time being anyway.

Berto is looking pretty decent, but Im not quite sold yet.

Originally Posted by miles

Beating Forbes is not the measuring stick of Berto's potential. I still have reservations about him. I wouldnt mind seeing him face Mosely, that would tell us more. Mosley probably has other plans though, and a ticking clock to beat. Maybe Clottey would be an interesting one to make, or even Cintron for the time being anyway.

Berto is looking pretty decent, but Im not quite sold yet.

My thoughts exactly

Originally Posted by Taeth

He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.

Taeth i don't know what it is with you and Andre Berto but you have to be kidding ? Berto was struggling to land flush punches for majority of the fight, and lost 4 rounds IMO. He basically won by outworking Forbes in the later rounds. And over powering the smaller Forbes who spent majority of his career at the lower weight class. Berto got countered quite alot in the fight aswell.

Berto still hasn't beaten a top Welterweight yet, he needs to fight Collazo or etc. Then we could really judge how good Berto is, im not sold on Berto yet at all. I don't think he looked that good against Forbes, the only thing that impressed me was his amazing stamina, no doubt Berto is a good talent, but lets see him against a top Welterweight first before we start overrating him.

Originally Posted by Taeth

He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.

I'd like to see him in with Clottey. If would give him a chance. He's clearly at legit top 5 WW at this point. Tony would kill him and I still think Cotto could neutralize his handspeed with his jab. Berto still hasn't been in with a legit top 10 WW, but I saw him really mature against Forbes. Forbes pushed him, took a few rounds, and Berton just raised it to another level. That's a good sign for him. I want Clottey/Berto with the winner to fight winner of the Cotto/Margo rematch.

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by Taeth

He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.

Taeth i don't know what it is with you and Andre Berto but you have to be kidding ? Berto was struggling to land flush punches for majority of the fight, and lost 4 rounds IMO. He basically won by outworking Forbes in the later rounds. And over powering the smaller Forbes who spent majority of his career at the lower weight class. Berto got countered quite alot in the fight aswell.

Berto still hasn't beaten a top Welterweight yet, he needs to fight Collazo or etc. Then we could really judge how good Berto is, im not sold on Berto yet at all. I don't think he looked that good against Forbes, the only thing that impressed me was his amazing stamina, no doubt Berto is a good talent, but lets see him against a top Welterweight first before he start overrating him.

LOL He was landing solid punches on Forbes all night, to the body to the head... IMO it was Forbes was given more credit than he deserved in that fight. Maybe you can't keep up with his punches, I don't know, but Berto was landing clean all night. You guys might have to see guys face top competition before your satisfied, but I have Oscar beating almost everyone in the WW division, and he didn't beat Forbes even close to the same way Berto did.

I also look at the little thinks, How slick Berto is on the inside, how much better he defense was. People have been saying dumb stuff like Berto isn't a good defensive fighter, when he has been since pretty much since the knockdown. He has progressed everyfight.

The reason why I think this win is so important is this. Forbes might not be the best WW in the division, but he boxes technically better than most of the top WW. He is faster than most of the top welterweights, and he has a better chin or as good of a chin as anyone in the sport.

You guys are saying he hasn't foughten the big guys yet, but thats to come. I am not saying he is ready just yet, but he will be soon. I think you guys underestimate the importance of speed.

As of now I only see Margarito being too much for Berto without seeing how he does against Clottey, Cotto, etc.

I still don't see how any of you had Forbes winning more than the second round, he wasn't landing hardly anything, he was just eating punches, kinda reminded me of a heavyweight James Toeny... Pun not intended on the eating.

That all being said people are never willing to jump on bandwagons before its a safe bet, but Berto has consistently been proving people wrong, especially you ICT. Your opinion is your own, but in this case its wrong. I am not saying he is necessarily going to be the next p4p #1 like I could have said with MAyweather or Roy Jones Jr early on in their career, he is lacking a certain fluidity in his mobility that makes me scared that he may have the same shortcomings Mosley did. Luckily, there are no tall, skilled boxers left in the WW division except Cintron, but that fight will never happen if Berto's trainers know anything about bringing a fighter up.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by Taeth

He beat Forbes in every aspect, most surprisingly even in defense. He looked great as soon as he relaxed. I see him beating guys like Cotto really soon... No way is Cotto taking those uppercuts. He will continue to get underrated, but I don't see anyone except Margarito beating him from what I saw tonight. He has the fastest hands in the division, even if you consider Floyd still in it, He is one of its harder punchers, and he has great skills in there, I wish he would throw combinations more, or use his speed to completely dominate fights, but that will take time hopefully.

Taeth i don't know what it is with you and Andre Berto but you have to be kidding ? Berto was struggling to land flush punches for majority of the fight, and lost 4 rounds IMO. He basically won by outworking Forbes in the later rounds. And over powering the smaller Forbes who spent majority of his career at the lower weight class. Berto got countered quite alot in the fight aswell.

Berto still hasn't beaten a top Welterweight yet, he needs to fight Collazo or etc. Then we could really judge how good Berto is, im not sold on Berto yet at all. I don't think he looked that good against Forbes, the only thing that impressed me was his amazing stamina, no doubt Berto is a good talent, but lets see him against a top Welterweight first before he start overrating him.

LOL He was landing solid punches on Forbes all night, to the body to the head... IMO it was Forbes was given more credit than he deserved in that fight. Maybe you can't keep up with his punches, I don't know, but Berto was landing clean all night. You guys might have to see guys face top competition before your satisfied, but I have Oscar beating almost everyone in the WW division, and he didn't beat Forbes even close to the same way Berto did.

I also look at the little thinks, How slick Berto is on the inside, how much better he defense was. People have been saying dumb stuff like Berto isn't a good defensive fighter, when he has been since pretty much since the knockdown. He has progressed everyfight.

The reason why I think this win is so important is this. Forbes might not be the best WW in the division, but he boxes technically better than most of the top WW. He is faster than most of the top welterweights, and he has a better chin or as good of a chin as anyone in the sport.

You guys are saying he hasn't foughten the big guys yet, but thats to come. I am not saying he is ready just yet, but he will be soon. I think you guys underestimate the importance of speed.

As of now I only see Margarito being too much for Berto without seeing how he does against Clottey, Cotto, etc.

I still don't see how any of you had Forbes winning more than the second round, he wasn't landing hardly anything, he was just eating punches, kinda reminded me of a heavyweight James Toeny... Pun not intended on the eating.

That all being said people are never willing to jump on bandwagons before its a safe bet, but Berto has consistently been proving people wrong, especially you ICT. Your opinion is your own, but in this case its wrong. I am not saying he is necessarily going to be the next p4p #1 like I could have said with MAyweather or Roy Jones Jr early on in their career, he is lacking a certain fluidity in his mobility that makes me scared that he may have the same shortcomings Mosley did. Luckily, there are no tall, skilled boxers left in the WW division except Cintron, but that fight will never happen if Berto's trainers know anything about bringing a fighter up.

Actually no he wasn't Taeth and im suprised you think that, Berto was missing alot of his punches. Especially with his famous combinations which were mostly hitting arms and gloves, or when they did land they wern't flush.

In the later rounds Berto was landing more flush especially with the uppercuts on the inside, but he basically turned the fight around. By outworking and over powering the smaller Forbes.

I had Forbes winning 4 rounds against Berto where as i had Forbes winning 3 against ODLH. So it depends on what you mean when you say Berto beat Forbes more convincing than ODLH did, by more damage ? or etc ?

Berto did look better with his defense i'll give you that, he did adjust and started slipping more punches, but i think that has more to do with. Berto throwing more punches in the later rounds, which made Forbes workrate drop heavily. Which resulted in Forbes slowing down which made it easier for Berto to slip punches.

As for your last comments i disagree on most of that Taeth, first off Forbes was landing alot of counter shots earlier on. Which were clean effective punches, and sometimes Forbes would lead with the left hook and land aswell, plus Forbes done his homework to the body.

And you say he has proved me wrong but in what exactly ? all i want to see is him fight a top Welterweight and until he does, i ain't jumping on no bandwagon. Fighting Luis Collazo or the loser of Margarito vs Clottey 2, Carlos Quintana, etc. Any of these fights would be fine.

One thing i do like about Berto is his stamina even in the 12th round against Forbes, he still had the same energy like it was the 1st round, which will serve him well against the likes of Margarito. Who i think Berto has a good chance of beating based on that.

Lol Forbes didn't land that much at all, he did counter a few times, but you see what Forbes was able to do against Oscar, he was landing that jab consistenly he was landing more than one punch in his combinations consistently. Against Berto, he was landing a few counter shots early, but even then Berto's speed put him off balance so much most of them didn't land very hard.

1. Comparing Berto and Oscar's performances: I think Berto landed better, cleaner punches against Forbes. I think he "hurt" Forbes or got his attention more than Oscar did in their fight, and he definitely got hit less then Oscar.
2. The things Berto has consistently proven you/critics wrong: You said before the fight the only reason Berto would win would be outworking Forbes, and that Steve would send Berto to school in a boxing sense. Berto outboxed Forbes except for the second round. He threw better combinations he landed more punches, and he was better defensively. He jabbed well, he threw combinations well, he went to the body better than Forbes, and his uppercut landed all night. You are attributing all his success against Forbes due to size, but Andre showed good poise inside, he showed a good outside game, and I still think you are smoking something to get Forbes 4 rounds in that fight. He had the second round and thats it. If you throw away the bs compubox numbers Berto was outlanding him in every round, except the second. Of course Forbes will land a few counter shots, but he would against anyone coming forward, he is quick, experienced, and very skilled.

3. Berto's future: Maybe I am the only one of the few with the balls and foresight to invest in a fighter early,but Berto is, and has everything to be one of the best in the sport. He has speed unlike anyone except maybe Gamboa. He is hard to hit, and he hits hard. I respect what you say most of the time ICT, but I sense a geniune dislike of Berto so I am going totake everything you write with a grain of salt. There is no reason to dislike Berto, he is flashy, he is very nice young man, and he could be the next man to carry the sport.

Until Berto decides to fight the best then I'll give the credit he deserves...

All the tools are there and the kids def. got the goods. Looks to make some adjustments as his career has progressed.

But it's for NO reason why his management team themselves have said he wont be fighting Cotto, Margarito or Williams anytime soon.

He looked good yesterday in controlling the fight against a decent veteran superfeatherweight.

I still have reservations about him beating any of the top guys, or a real welterweight but I'll credit him that he's done everything asked of him so far.

Not sure why but he doesn't excite me at all. I find all of his fights dull and I just can't get into him. I also question his chin. Being floored by Cosme Riveria wasn't a great sign, even though admiteddly he did manage to do the same to Joel Julio.

Actually Berto reminds me a lot of Julio. They both work extremely hard in fights, outworking their carefully picked opponents down the stretch. But neither has faced a real test yet (Julio not since Quintana) and I don't see the tools in either to be able to beat an elite fighter.

I think he'll go on to have a decent career, but to me he's more the level of Joshua Clottey or Cintron than a Cotto, Mayweather or Mosely.

I can't see a glittering future with multiple world title belts like I can with any of the modern greats.

But I'm sure he'll pick up a belt or two in his career.

Williams, Margarito, Mayweather, Cotto, Oscar, Mosely etc though all have the beating of him right now imo, and probably he'll never reach that level.

Originally Posted by Rotten Apple

I like Berto. He has great skills. But i think welters like Margarito, Cotto and Williams beat him

His team knows that he's not ready for the big guys like Williams and Margarito, but I think he can beat Cotto. I'd love to see that.

What level?

Mayweather is way above Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Mosley at their current rate.
Now that he is gone there is no real great fighter left in the WW division hence why the lightweight is better now. Williams left the division as well.

I think Mosley is the perfect opponent for Berto, he can't throw anything effectively except that right hook from everything Ih ave seen, and Berto can block that all night, also if Cotto was landing his jab on Mosley with ease, Berto has just as sharp of a jab, but its twice as fast. Once against only Margarito as of right now I have any hesitation of Berto beating, but you guys will see after the Collazo fight whats, what.

I see no similarities between Julio and Berto, Berto is fast, defensive oriented fighter who has the power and speed to knock guys out. Julio is a purely offensive minded fighter who is skilled ,but doesn't have the physical tools or skills developed to be a top level fighter. I think Julio would have had a lot of trouble with Forbes.

Originally Posted by Taeth

Berto's future: Maybe I am the only one of the few with the balls and foresight to invest in a fighter early,but Berto is, and has everything to be one of the best in the sport. He has speed unlike anyone except maybe Gamboa. He is hard to hit, and he hits hard. I respect what you say most of the time ICT, but I sense a geniune dislike of Berto so I am going totake everything you write with a grain of salt. There is no reason to dislike Berto, he is flashy, he is very nice young man, and he could be the next man to carry the sport.

Berto is definitely one of my favorite young fighters. I like his game, his story and he seems like he has a real deep drive - which comes into play a lot in this game. His background and story is pretty remarkable too. He's mentally tough and you can't really teach that. If his boxing game continues to improve and evolve, I'm with you on this one Taeth.