Thread: Re Visiting Hagler vs Leonard (Again .. but why)

Watched this fight again the other day and as much as Im a Ray Leonard fan, I was thinking wellllllllllllllllllll .... What even gave him the right to fight for Haglers title other than the money involved ... surely there was more deserving middle weight fighters around that SHOULD'VE got that shot on merit other than Ray Leonard .... was it more theatre than fight ? that thought made me sick ...

Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

Watched this fight again the other day and as much as Im a Ray Leonard fan, I was thinking wellllllllllllllllllll .... What even gave him the right to fight for Haglers title other than the money involved ... surely there was more deserving middle weight fighters around that SHOULD'VE got that shot on merit other than Ray Leonard .... was it more theatre than fight ? that thought made me sick ...

Mike McCallum and Herol Graham for a start.

What Ray done coming back at a new weight against an atg was great but he never won that fight. He got the dec as he was a poster boy for American sport.

Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

Watched this fight again the other day and as much as Im a Ray Leonard fan, I was thinking wellllllllllllllllllll .... What even gave him the right to fight for Haglers title other than the money involved ... surely there was more deserving middle weight fighters around that SHOULD'VE got that shot on merit other than Ray Leonard .... was it more theatre than fight ? that thought made me sick ...

Yes there were plenty of other challengers out there like Mike McCallum, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, Frank Tate, etc. But Marvin Hagler hated SRL they were supposed to fight in the early 80s.

SRL called all celebrities etc, to a meeting where Marvin Hagler thought SRL was going to announce there fight, instead SRL annouced his retirement. And Marvin Hagler never forgave him for it.

But he hated him from way back then because SRL was the superstar, getting all the money. Where as Marvin Hagler was fighting for peanut's on undercard's, with his name being virtually unknown. Where as SRL was always the main event, because he won an Olympic gold.

He wanted to beat SRL so badly that i think that played a big role in him losing, because if you see the way he come out for the first 4 rounds. He tried to box with SRL, trying to show that not only could he out fight SRL. He could also outbox him he wanted to humilate SRL.

But it didn't workout that way SRL was more fresher than Marvin Hagler believed, and SRL gave Marvin Hagler a bit of boxing lesson in those first 4 rounds. Which in the end played a big role in the scoring.

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

Watched this fight again the other day and as much as Im a Ray Leonard fan, I was thinking wellllllllllllllllllll .... What even gave him the right to fight for Haglers title other than the money involved ... surely there was more deserving middle weight fighters around that SHOULD'VE got that shot on merit other than Ray Leonard .... was it more theatre than fight ? that thought made me sick ...

Yes there were plenty of other challengers out there like Mike McCallum, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, Frank Tate, etc. But Marvin Hagler hated SRL they were supposed to fight in the early 80s.

SRL called all celebrities etc, to a meeting where Marvin Hagler thought SRL was going to announce there fight, instead SRL annouced his retirement. And Marvin Hagler never forgave him for it.

But he hated him from way back then because SRL was the superstar, getting all the money. Where as Marvin Hagler was fighting for peanut's on undercard's, with his name being virtually unknown. Where as SRL was always the main event, because he won an Olympic gold.

He wanted to beat SRL so badly that i think that played a big role in him losing, because if you see the way he come out for the first 4 rounds. He tried to box with SRL, trying to show that not only could he out fight SRL. He could also outbox him he wanted to humilate SRL.

But it didn't workout that way SRL was more fresher than Marvin Hagler believed, and SRL gave Marvin Hagler a bit of boxing lesson in those first 4 rounds. Which in the end played a big role in the scoring.

I don't give those first 4 rds much stock..Marvin was outboxed and even out fought early by many guys (Hearns/Mugabi being two of them)....It is the whole picture that counts...

The fight was close IMO but to be the champ you must beat him decisively Leonard did not do that.....Not even close....

Yes Ray got the nod due to his public status but was it a big ripoff? No I have and we all have seen worse decisions and we will in the future...This one stands out so much due to the high profile opf the bout

Yeah Im up with ya on the history ... but what we have here is a fight for a world title, because they wanted it .. not because it was deserved (Personally I think Ray edged it but I dont want this thread to be another what if as its been done to death with good arguments on both sides)

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

Watched this fight again the other day and as much as Im a Ray Leonard fan, I was thinking wellllllllllllllllllll .... What even gave him the right to fight for Haglers title other than the money involved ... surely there was more deserving middle weight fighters around that SHOULD'VE got that shot on merit other than Ray Leonard .... was it more theatre than fight ? that thought made me sick ...

Yes there were plenty of other challengers out there like Mike McCallum, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, Frank Tate, etc. But Marvin Hagler hated SRL they were supposed to fight in the early 80s.

SRL called all celebrities etc, to a meeting where Marvin Hagler thought SRL was going to announce there fight, instead SRL annouced his retirement. And Marvin Hagler never forgave him for it.

But he hated him from way back then because SRL was the superstar, getting all the money. Where as Marvin Hagler was fighting for peanut's on undercard's, with his name being virtually unknown. Where as SRL was always the main event, because he won an Olympic gold.

He wanted to beat SRL so badly that i think that played a big role in him losing, because if you see the way he come out for the first 4 rounds. He tried to box with SRL, trying to show that not only could he out fight SRL. He could also outbox him he wanted to humilate SRL.

But it didn't workout that way SRL was more fresher than Marvin Hagler believed, and SRL gave Marvin Hagler a bit of boxing lesson in those first 4 rounds. Which in the end played a big role in the scoring.

I don't give those first 4 rds much stock..Marvin was outboxed and even out fought early by many guys (Hearns/Mugabi being two of them)....It is the whole picture that counts...

The fight was close IMO but to be the champ you must beat him decisively Leonard did not do that.....Not even close....

Yes Ray got the nod due to his public status but was it a big ripoff? No I have and we all have seen worse decisions and we will in the future...This one stands out so much due to the high profile opf the bout

Thomas Hearns only outboxed Marvin Hagler for about 1:30

John Mugabi well i remember him being somewhat competitive, but i don't remember him winning that many rounds. And i don't think Marvin Hagler was behind at anytime in the fight like he was with SRL.

Daxx i for certain think Marvin Hagler came out boxing against SRL, to show he could outbox him because he hated SRL that much. He wanted to show that he could beat him at his own game.

Marvin Hagler had never came out fighting right handed for majority of the first 4 rounds, like he did in the SRL fight. And even in his earlier career when he was more of a boxer, he never come out that cautious.

Originally Posted by ICB

Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

Originally Posted by ICB

Yes there were plenty of other challengers out there like Mike McCallum, Herol Graham, Michael Nunn, Frank Tate, etc. But Marvin Hagler hated SRL they were supposed to fight in the early 80s.

SRL called all celebrities etc, to a meeting where Marvin Hagler thought SRL was going to announce there fight, instead SRL annouced his retirement. And Marvin Hagler never forgave him for it.

But he hated him from way back then because SRL was the superstar, getting all the money. Where as Marvin Hagler was fighting for peanut's on undercard's, with his name being virtually unknown. Where as SRL was always the main event, because he won an Olympic gold.

He wanted to beat SRL so badly that i think that played a big role in him losing, because if you see the way he come out for the first 4 rounds. He tried to box with SRL, trying to show that not only could he out fight SRL. He could also outbox him he wanted to humilate SRL.

But it didn't workout that way SRL was more fresher than Marvin Hagler believed, and SRL gave Marvin Hagler a bit of boxing lesson in those first 4 rounds. Which in the end played a big role in the scoring.

I don't give those first 4 rds much stock..Marvin was outboxed and even out fought early by many guys (Hearns/Mugabi being two of them)....It is the whole picture that counts...

The fight was close IMO but to be the champ you must beat him decisively Leonard did not do that.....Not even close....

Yes Ray got the nod due to his public status but was it a big ripoff? No I have and we all have seen worse decisions and we will in the future...This one stands out so much due to the high profile opf the bout

Thomas Hearns only outboxed Marvin Hagler for about 1:30

John Mugabi well i remember him being somewhat competitive, but i don't remember him winning that many rounds. And i don't think Marvin Hagler was behind at anytime in the fight like he was with SRL.

Daxx i for certain think Marvin Hagler came out boxing against SRL, to show he could outbox him because he hated SRL that much. He wanted to show that he could beat him at his own game.

Marvin Hagler had never came out fighting right handed for majority of the first 4 rounds, like he did in the SRL fight. And even in his earlier career when he was more of a boxer, he never come out that cautious.

Well the Hagler Hearns fight only lasted 3 rds and for what Tommy lkasted for (*At least until the start of the 3rd ..Tommy was winning lol)

I should have corrected myself on the Mugabi part...He diod not realy outbox Hagler early he outfought him early...He laid some vicious power on Marvin those first few rounds....

He did wan t to beat Leonard at his own game but like I said I take no stock in it...Ray was not having any of Marvins game that is for certain....