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Thread: Who was better....

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  1. #1
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    Default Who was better....

    Hearns
    Hagler
    Leonard

    Who was the best P4p ?.. plz rate and expalain

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    From those 3.

    SRL
    Hagler
    Hearns



    *I rate Duran higher then them in a P4P status.

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    I also don't think there is a right or wrong way to rate those 3.
    Anyway you put them you can have an great arguement.

    It boils down to what you put more emphasis to and also in some cases who you are biased for...
    For me neither of those 3 are favorites of mine, I like them and I enjoy their fights and they are all time greats.
    I probably enjoy Hearns the most of those 3.

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by gest12645 View Post
    Hearns
    Hagler
    Leonard

    Who was the best P4p ?.. plz rate and expalain
    That's like saying which lager is best

    Cobra
    San Miguel
    Corona

    I can't rate them in any order. All great fighters

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    From those 3.

    SRL
    Hagler
    Hearns



    *I rate Duran higher then them in a P4P status.
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    Last edited by CGM; 11-27-2008 at 09:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    From those 3.

    SRL
    Hagler
    Hearns
    *I rate Duran higher then them in a P4P status.
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    Luckly I've delt with someone like you before who questioned Durans P4P status. (Not that theres anything wrong with questioning)
    But people don't look at the big picture...

    A boxers greatness is not measured by 1 or 2 or 3 things. It's a mixture of a handful of things. Durans great because he fought through adversity because he beat all time greats. Because he fought the best of his era, the next era and the next era. Because when he has listed as the underdog he came out on top, because when they said he was done he won. Because his skills were amazing because he could adapt to any style in the ring.

    Here's a post that should put things into light a bit more for you as far as Durans career.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tml#post436770

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    As for the P4P question here's my all time P4P list.
    I should say my most recent P4P list because it changes a bit as time passes and I learn more about boxers.

    All of the lists I make, I base them of fighters I've seen myself with my own eyes.
    I refuse to list ANY fighter whom I have not seen any fights of and have ONLY read things about. Which is why you will never see me list Saddler, Benny, Loughran, Greb etc. etc. etc. because the footage I've seen if any has been very limited.

    1. SRR
    2. Ali
    3. Armstrong
    4. Duran
    5. Alexis
    6. SRL
    7. Pernell
    8. JCC
    9. Monzon
    10. "Finito" Lopez

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    From those 3.

    SRL
    Hagler
    Hearns
    *I rate Duran higher then them in a P4P status.
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    Luckly I've delt with someone like you before who questioned Durans P4P status. (Not that theres anything wrong with questioning)
    But people don't look at the big picture...

    A boxers greatness is not measured by 1 or 2 or 3 things. It's a mixture of a handful of things. Durans great because he fought through adversity because he beat all time greats. Because he fought the best of his era, the next era and the next era. Because when he has listed as the underdog he came out on top, because when they said he was done he won. Because his skills were amazing because he could adapt to any style in the ring.

    Here's a post that should put things into light a bit more for you as far as Durans career.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tml#post436770
    Actually I do think I look at the big picture.

    I know he lost to all of the big 4 or 5 you rank him above, add Benitez to that list. I know he never had a succesful title defence above lightweight. I know when it comes to victories over the best there are several who have more.

    Anyway I don't really have the patience to spend what will obviously be a lot of time going through these points with a fine tooth comb. Except to say that a lot of your points are subjective. I've followed the sport closely for many years, although I probably haven't watched as many fights as you have. Buying or downloading old fights is not the way I like to spend my time and/or money.

    A lot of it depends on what your criteria are for greatness. Lots of room for opinion there. Sure Duran is an all time great, but to be consistently ranked top 5 by so many, I don't agree. Not so much that he doesn't deserve it, just that there are several others who are equally deserving IMO, who never get ranked as high as he does.

    p.s. your list is pretty good IMO, cheers keep up the good work
    Last edited by CGM; 11-27-2008 at 10:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    SRL

    he beat them all

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    Talking Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    As for the P4P question here's my all time P4P list.
    I should say my most recent P4P list because it changes a bit as time passes and I learn more about boxers.

    All of the lists I make, I base them of fighters I've seen myself with my own eyes.
    I refuse to list ANY fighter whom I have not seen any fights of and have ONLY read things about. Which is why you will never see me list Saddler, Benny, Loughran, Greb etc. etc. etc. because the footage I've seen if any has been very limited.

    1. SRR
    2. Ali
    3. Armstrong
    4. Duran
    5. Alexis
    6. SRL
    7. Pernell
    8. JCC
    9. Monzon
    10. "Finito" Lopez

    A very wise post bud ...

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    Talking Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by kingfrnk View Post
    SRL

    he beat them all
    Hey good point bud and my all time fav boxer too is SRL based on what Ive seen over the years & what he was doing in the eighties when I was a young bloke so Ill go with the SRL call too..

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  12. #12
    ICB Guest

    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    From those 3.

    SRL
    Hagler
    Hearns
    *I rate Duran higher then them in a P4P status.
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    Luckly I've delt with someone like you before who questioned Durans P4P status. (Not that theres anything wrong with questioning)
    But people don't look at the big picture...

    A boxers greatness is not measured by 1 or 2 or 3 things. It's a mixture of a handful of things. Durans great because he fought through adversity because he beat all time greats. Because he fought the best of his era, the next era and the next era. Because when he has listed as the underdog he came out on top, because when they said he was done he won. Because his skills were amazing because he could adapt to any style in the ring.

    Here's a post that should put things into light a bit more for you as far as Durans career.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tml#post436770
    Roberto i know your on about me but i watched most of the fights you mentioned, and i also learnt alot more about him. And i do no longer question him. Im not sure if you have seen this thread i made after that debate we had along time ago.

    But here it is.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...wrong-way.html

    And as for the thread i would have to say Marvin Hagler, i thought he got a draw against SRL. And he really should have only 1 loss IMO, and even though SRL may of had better single wins.

    Marvin Hagler gets the number 1 spot IMO, because he was more consistent. Where as SRL retired alot and wern't as consistent, after his best win against Thomas Hearns. He only had 8 fights in 16 years.

    1 Marvin Hagler
    2 Sugar Ray Leonard
    3 Thomas Hearns
    4 Roberto Duran

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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by ICB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post

    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    Luckly I've delt with someone like you before who questioned Durans P4P status. (Not that theres anything wrong with questioning)
    But people don't look at the big picture...

    A boxers greatness is not measured by 1 or 2 or 3 things. It's a mixture of a handful of things. Durans great because he fought through adversity because he beat all time greats. Because he fought the best of his era, the next era and the next era. Because when he has listed as the underdog he came out on top, because when they said he was done he won. Because his skills were amazing because he could adapt to any style in the ring.

    Here's a post that should put things into light a bit more for you as far as Durans career.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...tml#post436770
    Roberto i know your on about me but i watched most of the fights you mentioned, and i also learnt alot more about him. And i do no longer question him. Im not sure if you have seen this thread i made after that debate we had along time ago.

    But here it is.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...wrong-way.html

    And as for the thread i would have to say Marvin Hagler, i thought he got a draw against SRL. And he really should have only 1 loss IMO, and even though SRL may of had better single wins.

    Marvin Hagler gets the number 1 spot IMO, because he was more consistent. Where as SRL retired alot and wern't as consistent, after his best win against Thomas Hearns. He only had 8 fights in 16 years.

    1 Marvin Hagler
    2 Sugar Ray Leonard
    3 Thomas Hearns
    4 Roberto Duran
    IS that your all time p4p ranking of the four ICB, or just a comparison of the time when they fought each other?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Who was better....

    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CutMeMick View Post
    From those 3.

    SRL
    Hagler
    Hearns



    *I rate Duran higher then them in a P4P status.
    That's a thread in and of itself. I don't get how so many people can rate Duran so damn high on the all time p4p lists. On the basis of what? his time at lightweight? HIs badass image? Would you rate Duran higher than Arguello? Higher than Chavez? There are a number of fighters who have more victories against big names than Duran. Fighters who have had far more success moving up through the divisions. Who's the biggest name Duran has a +record against? Iknow Duran is good, but he aint that good. IMHO
    Are you kidding me Duran would mop the floor with Arguello or Chavez. He is on another level, he is bigger and stronger than Chavez, a more vicious inside fighter, harder to hit, faster.

    Duran beat a ton of guys, I dont' wnat to go through it all but Leonard was among them.

    He fought Hagler who people thought would kill him becuase he was a natural lightweight at one point, and gave Hagler a huge scare. He came back repeatedly at way higher weights to knock out prospects.

    ANyways based on the fighters you mentioned

    obviously
    1) Ray Leonard, He didn't fight in three years and still came out close to even with Hagler in their fight... if not winning the fight. He beat Hearns when they were in their prime, he beat Duran in their second meeting, and their first was a great battle. He stopped Benitez. IMO he is quite a bit ahead of the rest of the field.
    2) Thomas Hearns: I think if he was the size he was at welterweight naturally at middleweight he would be 6'3-6'4 and hit as hard as Lennox Lewis. Lets see Hagler try to deal with that kind of power when Thomas Hearns buckeled his knees with that first uppercut.
    3) Marvin Hagler: I know he was a great fighter, but I think he gets overrated if anyone on here. He biggest wins were against smaller guys, he didn't fight guys who ended up having the greatest track record at middleweight, He is kind of like Hopkins was before Hopkins went up to LHW and beat Tarver, WRight, IMO CAlzaghe, and Pavlik. Only while Hopkins did that Hagler whether he won or not was embarrassed by Leonard who hadn't foughten in three years because of a detached retina. People say HAgler was past it, but he was what 32 or 33? Hopkins has been holding at least even with the likes of Calzaghe and Wright while being 7 years their seniors. Then what he did to Pavlik who IMO is similar to Mugabi in hype and form, maybe will be better by the time his career is over.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Who was better....

    What would happen if Hagler at foughten a natural middleweight version of Leonard, who could move for 15 rounds, and could punch equivalently harder at the weight? Leonard was untried for all intense and purposes against a guy at the highest weight he had ever been at. He hadn't had a real fight in three years, he couldn't maintain his movement for even 6 rounds. I think people are forgetting the factor of Hagler's size, and that with that advantage he was still on basically an even playing field with an old Duran, rusty Leonard, and he basically outchinned Hearns which Leonard had done before, and lesser guys have done since.

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