Last edited by killersheep; 12-21-2008 at 07:28 PM.
For every story told that divides us, I believe there are a thousand untold that unite us.
I don't know if this can happen but i had the fight a draw 0 - 0 is was that piss poor, best case 108 - 108 , no-one did enough to a single round
The HW scene is a disgrace having them 2 fight for a World Title
It is a judges job to know something about the fighters participating in a title fight....ANY JUDGE who does not know about Evander Holyfield should not be judging a fight in boxing let alone a HW title bout....
The Evander of old was a fighter who liked to bounce before he struck look at any of his prime fights and you would know that...There is a difference between bouncing and being inactive and running....
Not as if Valuev was following him in a stalking manner EG_ Miguel Cotto wallking an opponent down to unleash is stalking to attack....
Following a man around with no idea what to do or how to handle the movement is not....
Ruslan Chagaev beat Valuev by using constant movement and basically jabbing him...That fight Valuev had no idea on what to do either.....
Ruslan was just more active then Evander is all...
Valuev had some moments with his jab in the later rds as evander was tired but certainly not enough to warrent a victory,,,absolutly not enough for the scors read...
I mean c'mon man this was booed in Switzerland
Hidden Content IN CASE THEY ALL FORGOT WHAT REAL HEAVYWEIGHT POWER WAS!!!
I just wish that Wladimir would get a shot at Valuev...Valuev SAYS he wants to fight the best but he never TRIES to fight the best.
Evander had to make the fight as best he could without taking any risks against the much bigger guy. It was as bad a fight as it was because Holyfield was waiting for Valuev to make a move so he could counter and find openings. Valuev didnt do anything so this made Evanders job a lot harder. Valuev made no effort to defend his titles and Evander, who most people thought was going to get annihilated, stuck to a smart gameplan that enabled him to overcome the size difference and take rounds from the giant by using lateral movement and throwing conservative combonations when he did get inside, and ultimately winning a decision, which he should have. 46 y/o Holyfield was on his toes for 12 rounds, in complete control of the pace of the fight and his opponent from the beginning, making Valuev look like an amateur and completely uncomfortable and clueless, few thought he could do any of those things. Those people saying that Valuev won must be immpressed with Valuevs size and figure that being in the middle on the ring, doing nothing, gives Valuev the edge because of his "ring generalship" and imposing shadow. He must be even more of a defensive genius than Willie Pep because Pep only won one round without throwing a punch. Valuev could actually will himself a victory. Truly astonishing feat by the Russian.
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Orrr....He fought like a man who was outweighed by 100 + lbs,an 11 year age diference,and has been on the down slide for more than a few years,yet he still maintained enough activity to make/keep Valuev overthinking things and apparently deficiant in enough confidence to fight as a Heavyweight Champion.The fight was a bore.....but when does the Fav. and Champion shoulder some responsibility for stinking out the place?If he can not catch up to the old man who is throwing minimal counters and force a taxing pace on him with the age,weight,height advantages he had....Thats on him.Vauev fought like a 2nd rate challenger.
EXACTLY..
that's something like what i was going to say..
directed towards J_C.. Holyfield was not running, he was being smart.. He knows he's not going to win a brawl with someone SO MUCH bigger than him, and was trying to get in and out as much as possible.. Running would have been if Valuev actually attempted to put Evander on the ropes, or walk him into a corner, and Evander was trying to escape instead of fight back.. This was not the case..
You do not get points or an advantage for coming into the ring the bigger guy, and the fight should not be scored that way..
Hey guys,
Me and my mate who is also into boxing analysed this fight this afternoon for about an hour and a half. Pretty sick and sadistic I know as it was such a bad fight but we disagreed on the outcome (he had Holy winning by a few points) and we wanted to settle our dispute. We counted everything thrown and everything landed (which isnt quite as time consuming as it may sound due to the lack of activity in the fight). Obviously theres some margin for error but I think we did a good job.
Here are the punch stats...(Round - Valuev - Holyfield)
1 - 37/2 - 19/6
2 - 21/2 - 13/6
3 - 23/2 - 11/7
4 - 32/6 - 18/8
5 - 24/2 - 19/5
6 - 51/7 - 13/6
7 - 37/9 - 13/7
8 - 40/9 - 27/6
9 - 29/5 - 20/4
10 - 35/3 - 17/5
11 - 30/4 - 18/7
12 - 43/1 - 15/3
Valuev 52/402 13%
Holyfield 70/203 34%
As I suspected and said earlier in the thread Valuev threw more but Holyfield landed more. Valuev threw twice as many infact although it really has to be said the majority of those were very weak jabs that never found the target whatsoever. The fact still remains that Valuev threw more in all 12 rounds. Holyfield connected more in 8 from the 12 rounds.
We fully agreed that Holyfield won rounds 2,3,5 and 11 and Valuev won rounds 6,7 and 8.
The other 5 rounds there could all be some debate on and were hard to score. It should be noted that Holyfield did score more connects in 4 of those 5 however.
Upon rewatching the fight I scored it 116-115 in favour of Holyfield. Still very very close though! And I 100% dispute anyone who says it was a clearcut shutout type win still.
Does anybody think Valuev won?
Not me
For every story told that divides us, I believe there are a thousand untold that unite us.
J_C you definately put the effort into judging the fight objectively, and came out with a different result. I comend you for that cause I know you had Valuev winning originally. I still think Holy won 10-2 or 9-3 based on his better percentage landed and more punches landed. The close rounds I couldnt give to give to Valuev based on him only landing 3 or 4 punches and Holyfield landing more while staying a step ahead and making Valuev miss. Still low numbers but enough to win the rounds. No masterpiece by any means but Evander should have won.
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Way past time for Holyfield to retire. Valuev won.
The judges actually was doing Holyfield a favor, IMO. Sending him a message to hang it up while he still can, and before getting seriously hurt.
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