Slipping is NOT head movement?

God.in.my.corner · #1 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 09:26 PM

Please explain. Is slipping actually "defense" and is head movement more like movment before a punch is thrown to make you less hittable?

Chris Nagel · #2 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 10:27 PM

Don't you think that avoiding a punch is a form of defense?

God.in.my.corner · #3 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 10:32 PM

I still don't understand the difference. I thought they were the same. Slipping is avoiding a punch, and head movement is what you do between punches, correct? Both I thought were considered "head movement".

Chris Nagel · #4 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God.in.my.corner

I still don't understand the difference. I thought they were the same. Slipping is avoiding a punch, and head movement is what you do between punches, correct? Both I thought were considered "head movement".

The key difference is that "slipping" is when you are seizing an opportunity and deliberately avoiding a punch through head movement rather than otherwise incidentally. This requires the precise timing of a punch and then avoiding it. I suppose that you could look at it as a very important subcategory of head movement with a more specific purpose. For instance, actively slipping the jab and then countering.

Youngblood · #5 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 11:12 PM

Yea, it for me is basically a slight movement out of punchs target area, and throwing (usually inside) as a counter. That movement can be as simple as dropping down a few inches in stance.

Chris Nagel · #6 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

Yea, it for me is basically a slight movement out of punchs target area, and throwing (usually inside) as a counter. That movement can be as simple as dropping down a few inches in stance.

The body movement in slipping is very similar to throwing punch without extending your arm.

For example the motion of slipping to the outside to the jab would be like throwing a left-hook, and slipping inside would be like throwing a straight right.

You said that you usually slip toward the inside? I would think that it'd be to the more often to the outside since it'd be safer to (you wouldn't have to guard against their right hand).

Youngblood · #7 (**permalink**) 05-25-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Nagel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youngblood

Yea, it for me is basically a slight movement out of punchs target area, and throwing (usually inside) as a counter. That movement can be as simple as dropping down a few inches in stance.

The body movement in slipping is very similar to throwing punch without extending your arm.

For example the motion of slipping to the outside to the jab would be like throwing a left-hook, and slipping inside would be like throwing a straight right.

You said that you usually slip toward the inside? I would think that it'd be to the more often to the outside since it'd be safer to (you wouldn't have to guard against their right hand).

Well, to sorta illustrate what I mean...often I will see say a left hook coming, and instead of moving away, I drop below the punch so it at best might graze off the top of my head...but by then a punch (s), usually straight right-left hook combo is being delivered.

So not moving in, but dropping down to set up counter and avoid punch.

Chris Nagel · #8 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 12:05 AM

Ah ok, I think I understand what you talking about. It sounds like ducking or rolling under a punch.

I was just thinking about bobbing and weaving, which is another specific type of head movement that would be interesting to talk about.

God.in.my.corner · #9 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 12:56 AM

When sparring I tend to move my head by bending my rear knee, changing the level of my head while stalking usually. I find the contant lateral movement my head head/shoulders/hips not as effective unlesses I am slipping to counterpunch. But the more experienced guys always tell me i need more head movement....

Chris Nagel · #10 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 01:29 AM

I tend to agree with you there. The constant side-to-side head movement isn't really effective, and it can also become a little distracting at times.

I do like the idea of moving your head while bending your knee, put that together with footwork, or little pivot/turn of the balls of your feet and you can come up with some neat moves that can get you out of the way of a punch.

Here's an interesting post by a friend of mine that goes deeper into it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andre

I have tried to impart the slight shifts and half steps and full foot switches that they taught into ,the advanced fighting section on the front page because boxers can use these especially up nose to nose fighting either to evade or to get more power.

Boxers are lucky because there is no fear of a knee strike blowing you away as you duck and roll under a fist etc, or a elbow to catch you in the reverse path to your head.

So boxers can use more footwork than any other style fighters.
To use footwork to create better head movement while stepping is at their disposal and only just being discovered by a few.(

So your lucky,practice it and you'll be better than most)

To practice slight knee bends while standing square on and lift the outsides of your heels up while throwing shots nose to nose OR Slight Knee bends while stepping out on angles or knee bends stepping back on the angle can create head movements in a U shape or a n shape and to then practice the variations takes your head movements into the full circular O pattern.You practice those steps and bends with your normal ducking and weaving and you'll be a lot more evasive and devastating in your return shots(through weight shifting) than anyone whos gone before you.

On a different note, I believe that slipping punches should be practiced separately. Perhaps you could drill this with a trainer, or a partner? Check out the important posts section on this board, as there are some good threads dedicated to this subject to describe the different slips, as well as the different counters off of those slips.

**Andre** · #11 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 08:46 AM

For me Slipping is where you remain in contact distance but make them miss allow yourself the instant retaliation.Your head moves sure.

Actual head movement as in 'hard to hit' cause its on the move and not easily read, stems from many things cause your head will follow your feet your ankles your knees your hips your neck even your upper torso twisting will get your head out of the way of a straight shot as will just turning both ankles out or in one way or bending a knee.

I think people who have no neck and whos head follows their shoulder movment are easier to read so they have to stretch and lossen all the other joints mentioned and add it into their footwork so as to make up for it.Lacy lacks in that.Tyson utilized it and made it a strength by going low and head hunting from low down by covering up leaning and swaying in low with his knees and feet;(tough if you get timed and caught doing that though).

God.in.my.corner · #12 (**permalink**) 05-26-2009, 02:12 PM

thanks for the tips. Good stuff.

Chris Nagel · #13 (**permalink**) 05-27-2009, 04:31 PM

I did a quick search and found this really good thread on the subject: head movement

I'll make sure that this goes into the important posts section.

God.in.my.corner · #14 (**permalink**) 05-28-2009, 03:45 AM

That's perfect. More solid tips and a great thread.