I'm just not up for watching another pac v delahoya..that was some bullshit and if there's a chance that any of the welters could come in looking like that then I'd rather manny stick to 140 or below and the WW's fight each other...there are still good and better fights to be made at WW without manny..so

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"Sixty forty I kicks yo' ass, Sixty forty I tears yo' ass up" - Roy Jones

Asking Cotto to give up 4 maybe even just 3 lbs is hardly another De La Hoya. Oscar came down an entire weight class that he hadn't fought in for 8 years! In fact he didn't even go down to 147, he weighed in at 142!!

Cotto was fighting at 140 only 3 years ago and being 7 years younger than Oscar doesn't have the slowed metabolism that Oscar has.

It's no way comparable, not even close.

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IMHO if PAC was not succesful in destroying both ODLH and Hatton this catchweight topics will not even be brought up. Obviously alot of people is threatened by PAC. Give the guy a break he will lose too, sometime.

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The most shameful thing in life is to get beat up by a smaller man.

Good point and Oscar Pac wasn't even a catchweight fight! They fought at 147 lbs, a legit weight class.

A catchweight would have been between 147 and 154 and better for Oscar and for fightfans

But this is it. WHY should Manny Pacquiao, or Anybody be given any ''Slack'' for a shot at Glory?

Did Roy Jones ask Ruiz to cut a stone to make a fair fight? No.
Roy bulked up as much as he saw reasonable and just got on with it.

Your Haye Valuev comments are a bit of a contradiction IMO. 70lbs difference is okay for two heavyweights but ''size matters more in the lower divisions''

That's absolute rubbish Bill. Manny Fighting at 147 is a problem but Haye fighting a 300lbs monster is cool?

Surely you can see this is nonsense?

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No Bill. 147 WAS the catchweight

We all saw the effects that had.

You seriously think David Haye is facing a tougher challenge against Nikolay Valuev than Bernard Hopkins would than fighting David Haye? I can't even debate that, that's just the funniest thing I've ever heard

As I said before size matters only up to a critical mass. Humans have a critical mass like ALL animals, a maximum size and weight above which their size can count against them. Valueve on account of his size is slow as fuck.

Regarding Roy Jones against John Ruiz. This actually highlights my point. Roy in moving up to heavyweight to achieve the goal of fighting a heavyweight world champ had to pick the SHITTEST heavyweight champ out there. He didn't beat a real champ, he beat a paper belt trinket holder.

Manny Pacquio is on about fighting either Cotto or Shane Mosely unquestionable the BEST fighters int the welterweight division and WORLD CLASS operators. Ruiz was and always has been a very mediocre champ.


As for not cutting Pacqauio any slack for a shot at glory, why should he have to fight Cotto at Cotto's weight any more than Cotto should fight Manny at Manny's weight?

Manny is the p4p number 1 recognised by everyone as the best fighter on the planet right now, Cotto is the guy who has something to prove.

Manny has already come up 7 weight classes why can't Cotto weight in at 2 lbs (just 2 freaking lbs) less than he weighed in against Clottey to make this fight happen?

And regarding the glory. What is the real glory, winning a trinket belt or beating Miguel Cotto?

The top champs are bigger than the belts, who gives a shit if Manny vs Cotto is for a belt or not, it's the fight that matters!!!

The ultimate goal of boxing HAS to be to give us the best, most entertaining and competitive matchups possible. We want to see the best fighters fight the best fighters.

The weight classes, world titles etc are there to help facilitate this, they are merely the methods by which we can help get the best fights. To put the weight classes and belts above the fights is ridiculous.

And HONESTLY you would rather see Ruiz vs Roy Jones at heavyweight than Cotto vs Pacquaio at 143 and Hopkins vs Haye at 210lbs?

In your heart of hearts, and not just to win an argument you think Ruiz vs Jones is better matchmaking, more entertaining, and a better fight for boxing in getting an audience than Cotto Paquaio at 143 and Hopkins vs Haye at 210? Seriously

Iv'e never mention Bernard Hopkins so i really don't understand this point

Look, either way you slice it Roy facing Ruiz at Heavyweight or David Haye fighting Valuev is BY FAR a bigger challenge than Manny Paquiao fighting a man just 7lbs above him.

Actually at the HW division the weight really doesn't matter anymore. Tyson was routinely outweighed by 15-30 pounds and fought guys that were 5 to 6 inches taller than him and he won easily in the 80s, but people still consider what someone like Duran or Leonard did going up in weight to fight a guy such as Hagler as more impressive because like Bilbo said, size matters a lot at the lower weights more so than at HW.

It's hard for me to explain the physiology of it but Bilbo did a great job in explaining about it in his recent posts.

Whew. What a gallant speech from the great Bilbo.

If I may make a comment, just last year, everybody was thinking that Cotto will be a monster against Pac in the 147 weight category. Even Bob Arum would not even dare to talk about Pac vs Cotto and obviously he has his rational reasons for not entertaining this match-up. It was only last year when Pac had to fight at lightweight and as many claim, he fought a weight drained DLH. So his wins at 135 and at 147 is still doubtful for many.

Any unbiased boxing fan knows that Pac fighting at 147 against one of the best in that division is suicidal. Even at a catchweight, I doubt Pac's chances against Cotto. Besides, against Cotto, Pac's greatest weapon and advantage is his speed. Gaining more weight than he's supposed to have would mean a relatively slower Pac.

If my memory does not fail me, Cotto won against Mosley who many considers to be a better counter puncher than Pac and whose speed is relatively comparable to Pac's speed.

Therefore, if Pac fights Cotto at 147, it would only mean one thing. He will be losing any advantage he may have against Cotto.

And Cotto's chances of winning will be tripled if not quadrupled. Cotto will have the advantages in power, speed(probably, based on his fight againt Mosley), reach, height. Not considering the fact that he has fought in that weight division for countless fights already.

While here comes our little hero who will be having his real debut in the weight category. Just be honest, do you still expect this match-up to be fair if made at 147?

If Pac will be mercilessly destroyed at the hands of Cotto, can we honestly be happy about this fight despite the hatred which many claim to have against Pac fans?

As true boxing fans, can we not appreciate the fact that here's a great fighter in our midst who's unbelievably jumping 7 weight categories. Would we conspire against a boxing great just because we hate his fans?

Why can't we give Pac a chance to test the waters and fight at a catchweight? This is his first.



Besides, we give that accomodation with Mayweather vs JMM. Why could we not give it to Pac? If Pac and JMM are almost equal in abilities, why the different treatment then?

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Catchweight fights for me are just another step of demeaning Boxing. We have too many world titles, too many weight divisions. The emphasis on being a 'world' champion doesn't mean much anymore. For me, rules are there for a reason. If you want to fight for a Welterweight title, then both fighters should have the choice to make the full Welterweight limit. If it's not for the belt, then they can do whatever they like.

This is where the pac thing gets weird and illogical for me. Okay Bilbo (or anyone else for that matter), since you're obviously an articulate individual. Please explain to me how it's okay for PACMAN to fight a man bigger than both Cotto and Mosley at their weight class, but not fight them at their own? If I didn't ask that clearly then I'll do it this way...

How does this makes sense:

PACMAN v OSCAR @ 154 (No! oscar too big must come down to 147)

PAC v COTTO or MOSLEY @ 147 (No! 147 too big must come down)

WTF !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? To me the answer is clear but I'll wait for your response.

''Cotto, just isn't allowed. Okay...? He just isn't.
Cotto is a monster at 147. It's not fair... Size matters.
I cant explain the physiology but it there you go.''

are you perhaps predicting Bilbo's explanation?...if so then I'm LMAO....

Ok first off curse all you disagreeing, I had to ask Saddo to boot me so I couldn't reply to this as I'm busy but I can't resist damnit

Let me answer these objections as best I can.

bzkfn said Catchweight fights for me are just another step of demeaning Boxing. We have too many world titles, too many weight divisions. The emphasis on being a 'world' champion doesn't mean much anymore.

No. What's demeaning boxing is that we have seemingly dozens of organisations with their own world title belts and upto 7 or 8 world title belts per division, including in some absurd cases two champions in the same organisation!

What's GREAT for boxing is when the alphabet paper champs get ignored and the BEST FIGHT THE BEST as in Pacquaio Cotto. Whether its for a paper belt or not who gives a shit! It's the FIGHT that counts!

@JonesJrMayweather, Ok so let's explain the Oscar thing. First off this was NOT NOT NOT NOT a catchweight fight. Oscar was a 154 lber and Manny a 135 lber. Manny agreed to jump two further weight classes whilst Oscar agreed to drop down one weight class. That's NOT a catchweight, the 147 lb weight division is a REAL division.

The fact that Oscar was weight drained is IRRELEVENT! What if Oscar had smashed Pacquiao like most were expecting? Would Manny have just moved up too high?

And please explain the logic of when a fight moves down a weight class its a catchweight fight and therefore fake bullshit but when a fighter moves up its not?

And what about the catchweight fight Hopkins vs Wright? Didn't everyone moan about that one being unfair to Wright because he had never fought above 160 and was too small for B Hop at 170lbs?

Didn't people at the time argue that B HOP should COME DOWN and fight at if not 160 then around 165 so it was fairer., YES THEY DID CHECK THE THREADS!!!!


Ok so now to the question why is it ok for Manny to fight Oscar at 147 and not Cotto or Mosely.

Well isn't obvious? All three fighters are much bigger than Manny. In a fight at either of their chosen weight classes it isn't a fair fight. Manny is a natural 135-140 lbs right that's his optimum weight so fighting these guys at THEIR optimum weight gives THEM an advantage.

So to level the playing the field a bit and allow these MEGA EVENTS, POSSIBLY BEST FIGHTS OF THE MILLENIUM!! to take place BOTH fighters have to give a little.

In Oscars case he moved down one weight class and Manny moved UP THREE! (not counting his brief water testing at lightweight)

In Mosely and Cotto's case Manny agrees to move up 3 or 4 lbs and they move down 3 or 4 lbs.

That's totally fair! And importantly it allows for these potential MEGA FIGHTS, AWESOME EVENTS WHICH EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE to take place when they OTHERWISE MIGHT NOT! How much clearer does it need to be?

(I apologise for the caps, they annoy me too, but I am an internet warrior and have no control over my frantic keyboard mashing bony fingers)