Thread: B Hop is Overrated

Yeah I said it....Seems everyone of late thinks B Hop is some boxing god but I am going to lay out a few points on why I dont think he is as good as everyone seems to think:

Claims to fame:

20 title defense - This is quite an accomplishment but who did he really beat? Glen Johnson, Joppy, Eastman, Allen? Not the cream of the crop...Trinidad was his best win but he is a blown up welter/jr welter at best....(please dont bring up de la hoya)

Tarver Victory - Yeah B Hop moved up to Lt Hvy to beat Tarver who beat Jones on his way down....I believe Tarver was overrated because of his victories over a faded Jones.....Dawson whopped tarver just as easy as B Hop and I dont think Dawson is going to be an all time great....

Pavlik - Pavlik's claim to fame is his victory over Taylor. I believe Pavlik was overrated at the time....Taylor punched himself out in the first fight and has been plagued by stamina issues of late. Pavlik moved up in weight and has had issues since....

Hopkins Strikes:

Loss to Jones. - Prime for prime Jones would beat Hopkins any day at middleweight....so even in his prime he wasnt the best middleweight....

Losses to Taylor - Whether you thought he won or lost he went life or death with Taylor at middleweight.....toward the end of his career he wasnt the best middleweight....

Loss to Joe Cal - Hopkins lost this fight and had to resort to trickery and cheating to even stay in the fight...wasnt the best Lt heavyweight either.......

For me Hopkins has been a whiner, dull fighter, dirty fighter and I am surprised at all of the people that have come out of the woodwork to proclaim how he is one of the greatest.....

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yeah I said it....Seems everyone of late thinks B Hop is some boxing god but I am going to lay out a few points on why I dont think he is as good as everyone seems to think:

Claims to fame:

20 title defense - This is quite an accomplishment but who did he really beat? Glen Johnson, Joppy, Eastman, Allen? Not the cream of the crop...Trinidad was his best win but he is a blown up welter/jr welter at best....(please dont bring up de la hoya)

Tarver Victory - Yeah B Hop moved up to Lt Hvy to beat Tarver who beat Jones on his way down....I believe Tarver was overrated because of his victories over a faded Jones.....Dawson whopped tarver just as easy as B Hop and I dont think Dawson is going to be an all time great....

Pavlik - Pavlik's claim to fame is his victory over Taylor. I believe Pavlik was overrated at the time....Taylor punched himself out in the first fight and has been plagued by stamina issues of late. Pavlik moved up in weight and has had issues since....

Hopkins Strikes:

Loss to Jones. - Prime for prime Jones would beat Hopkins any day at middleweight....so even in his prime he wasnt the best middleweight....

Losses to Taylor - Whether you thought he won or lost he went life or death with Taylor at middleweight.....toward the end of his career he wasnt the best middleweight....

Loss to Joe Cal - Hopkins lost this fight and had to resort to trickery and cheating to even stay in the fight...wasnt the best Lt heavyweight either.......

For me Hopkins has been a whiner, dull fighter, dirty fighter and I am surprised at all of the people that have come out of the woodwork to proclaim how he is one of the greatest.....

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yeah I said it....Seems everyone of late thinks B Hop is some boxing god but I am going to lay out a few points on why I dont think he is as good as everyone seems to think:

Claims to fame:

20 title defense - This is quite an accomplishment but who did he really beat? Glen Johnson, Joppy, Eastman, Allen? Not the cream of the crop...Trinidad was his best win but he is a blown up welter/jr welter at best....(please dont bring up de la hoya)

Tarver Victory - Yeah B Hop moved up to Lt Hvy to beat Tarver who beat Jones on his way down....I believe Tarver was overrated because of his victories over a faded Jones.....Dawson whopped tarver just as easy as B Hop and I dont think Dawson is going to be an all time great....

Pavlik - Pavlik's claim to fame is his victory over Taylor. I believe Pavlik was overrated at the time....Taylor punched himself out in the first fight and has been plagued by stamina issues of late. Pavlik moved up in weight and has had issues since....

Hopkins Strikes:

Loss to Jones. - Prime for prime Jones would beat Hopkins any day at middleweight....so even in his prime he wasnt the best middleweight....

Losses to Taylor - Whether you thought he won or lost he went life or death with Taylor at middleweight.....toward the end of his career he wasnt the best middleweight....

Loss to Joe Cal - Hopkins lost this fight and had to resort to trickery and cheating to even stay in the fight...wasnt the best Lt heavyweight either.......

For me Hopkins has been a whiner, dull fighter, dirty fighter and I am surprised at all of the people that have come out of the woodwork to proclaim how he is one of the greatest.....

Good points......thanks for sharing....

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

this wont end well.

and Bhop is in no way overrated.

I agree completely. He is well overrated.

His only really meaningful fight against a fighter in his own weight class in recent times was Calzaghe and Hopkins lost that quite convincingly. All of his fights since Taylor have been smoke and mirrors....except for Tarver. But even then Tarver has been pretty rubbish since then so you can argue that Tarver was over the hill and overrated anway.

Hopkins barely squeezed by Taylor giving up half the fight in both of those showings. And prior to that his record had a lot of filler and money fights with smaller men moving up.

lol this is almost laughable

If you wanna claim hopkins is overrated you may as well play the same card with the likes of jones, mosley etc

The guy hasnt been put down in 20+ years of boxing, has completely dominated a division over a 5-6 year period. Every single one of his losses have been due to close decisions that could of gone either way...

Jones 115-113 Hopkins
Taylor 115-113 Hopkins
Taylor 115-113 Hopkins
Calzaghe 115-112 Hopkins

If you wanna hate the man by all accounts hate away as many do. But to actually make such a ridiculous statement about an all time greats legacy isnt gonna gain you much noterity amongst the hardcore posters on this site

Originally Posted by miles

I agree completely. He is well overrated.

His only really meaningful fight against a fighter in his own weight class in recent times was Calzaghe and Hopkins lost that quite convincingly. All of his fights since Taylor have been smoke and mirrors....except for Tarver. But even then Tarver has been pretty rubbish since then so you can argue that Tarver was over the hill and overrated anway.

Hopkins barely squeezed by Taylor giving up half the fight in both of those showings. And prior to that his record had a lot of filler and money fights with smaller men moving up.

These are very valid points.

I appreciate Hopkins ability greatly. I've come to basically love his style of fighting. The old young him, the new old him... All top draw boxing.

But yes unfortunately, as with his style of fighting... Perception is a key word.

I wont pick too many holes though, Bernard is a marque fighter when referring to Boxing's elite BUT i do think the time has come as of late where Bernard is no longer good for the sport of boxing.

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

I can see both sides to this. I don't think he is overrated, I think he is/was awesome and every bit as good as the majority make him out to be..BUT..... I do think that his reign at Middleweight saw him fight really average opposition. The only guy he was ever expected to have any trouble with was Jones who beat him. I give him credit for beating Johnson, who was unbeaten at the time, but lets face it Johnson is no ATG. His losses against Taylor also tarnish his legacy imo

Much like Cazlaghe and Jones I think HE is great, but his RESUME is not

I Love people bringing up guys who could beat Bernard today Duh, he's 44 he needs the right type of fight to win one where he can fight at his pace

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

Can we say LUCKY punch? he was getting worked.

Forrest could whoop anyone's ass almost. Jermaine may just be known down the road as the man who could only beat one man.

Yes, he LOST the decision. If he didn't hug the last 4 rounds and fake all those low blows, we could have actually had a fight on our hands. But he just wanted to make it out of the fight.

He is a neat boxer... sort of. But not P4P #1 by any means at all. One win over a MW at a catchweight does not merit this status. Dawson win KO him, Tarvoris Cloud will KO him, Kessler, Glen Johnson, Abraham, all guys who would beat him today..

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

Can we say LUCKY punch? he was getting worked.

Forrest could whoop anyone's ass almost. Jermaine may just be known down the road as the man who could only beat one man.

Yes, he LOST the decision. If he didn't hug the last 4 rounds and fake all those low blows, we could have actually had a fight on our hands. But he just wanted to make it out of the fight.

He is a neat boxer... sort of. But not P4P #1 by any means at all. One win over a MW at a catchweight does not merit this status. Dawson win KO him, Tarvoris Cloud will KO him, Kessler, Glen Johnson, Abraham, all guys who would beat him today..

The first part of this (the yellow part) has to be a wind up right?

My eyes!

Originally Posted by OumaFan

Originally Posted by JonnyFolds

Originally Posted by Truth

Why BHOP isn't overrated:
20 Straight Defenses : Opposition wasn't that Bad he was just that good. PS Nobody said that about Trinidad as he was steamrolling through the middleweight division, DLH was a great win Bernard used his size and eventually wore down the smaller man
Win Over Tarver : Comes Up at 40 years old and does something the great Sugar Ray Robinson was UNABLE to accomplish
Pavlik : at 44 beats a young UNDEFEATED champion known for his KO Power

Jones: I disagree when you say it was prime vs prime I think for the 2 in this particular case it would be a 25 or so Jones against a 34 or so Hopkins
Taylor : Jermain had Bernard's # or so the judges thought, close entertaing fights But Jermain was able to sort of solve Bernard which is almost impossible to do. Jermain is to Bernard sort of how Vernon was to Shane.
Calzaghe: At 43 lose a controversial decision an UNDEFEATED 36 year old who has ruled his division for a decade and had annihlated the highly regarded Mikkell Kessler and one time highly regarded Jeff Lacy.

As for being dirty and whining sure he can be annoying and his antics at times are crazy (PR Flag, I'll never lose to a white boy). You can't underestimate his greatness.

Can we say LUCKY punch? he was getting worked.

Forrest could whoop anyone's ass almost. Jermaine may just be known down the road as the man who could only beat one man.

Yes, he LOST the decision. If he didn't hug the last 4 rounds and fake all those low blows, we could have actually had a fight on our hands. But he just wanted to make it out of the fight.

He is a neat boxer... sort of. But not P4P #1 by any means at all. One win over a MW at a catchweight does not merit this status. Dawson win KO him, Tarvoris Cloud will KO him, Kessler, Glen Johnson, Abraham, all guys who would beat him today..

The first part of this (the yellow part) has to be a wind up right?

The first part? What about the last part ...

"Dawson win KO him, Tarvoris Cloud will KO him, Kessler, Glen Johnson, Abraham, all guys who would beat him today.."