The way people talk - Page 2

killersheep · #16 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 01:43 PM

For me 147 is the only real question about Mayweather.

I have no problem with him testing the waters against Mitchell, fighting Judah and beating the Lineal champ in Baldomir, but after that is where his legacy should have been made. He has a good resume, but it could be phenomenal. The chances are still there however hopefully Cotto wins, because a fight against PAC would be a lose/lose for Floyds legacy (although a win/win on the business side). Mosley would be the next option although Floyd seems to hold a lot of resentment towards him for not getting the fight when he wanted it.

IF in 2010 he beats the winner of PAC/Cotto and Mosley he will make a big move in the right direction.

BoxingChaos · #17 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amat

Cintron?

I remember when Margarito had that $8 million offer on the table and Floyd had an open date for November and boxrec posted that Floyd was fighting Cintron instead of Margarito. Anyone remember that day/week? This place went crazy.

I don't recall that but this proves that Arum is willing to deal with Floyd. Floyd has been telling us that he could not fight Cotto because Arum was an old man and refused to do business with Floyd. This is just one of MILLIONS of Floyd's excuses to get out of a tough fight.

Floyd should have just tore the Welter weight division apart and then he could have retired smooth sailing. He did not and yet he is still ranked the # 2 welter weight by Ring Mag

Now that Cotto has been plastered, everyone wants a piece of him.

Mosley had to balls to face Cotto at least when Cotto was hot and on a roll.

Reminds me of a Rugged comment.

Floyd: I beat Judah.
Rugged: After he lost to sorry old Baldomir.
Rugged: What a brave move that was. You really put your balls on the table with that choice.

Ownage.

Galaxy · #18 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 05:26 PM

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Good posting Amat, I am actually even considering sending some rep your way for it. I won't of course, but I did consider considering it at least.

I didn't really agree with the 'least resistance' thread much either.

First he claimed Floyd had been following this path of least resistance since his close call with Castillo. Well if my memory serves me correctly, immediately after almost losing to Castillo, Floyd fought Castillo again, to prove he could beat convincingly and he did, that's hardly the path of least resistance, especially considering the likes of Calzaghe and Hatton never offered rematches when they won dubious decisions.

The criticism for not fighting Hatton whilst they were at junior welter is a bit ridiculous seeing as he fought Hatton later, when Hatton was still undefeated and also a double weight world champ.

Don't guys realise that the serious challengers, those likely to be the guys the public demand, need time to develop and prove themselves as marquee names so that when the fight does happen it happens for more money?

Fighting Cotto a few years ago wouldn't mean nearly as much in terms of cash and interest than if he fights him after the Manny fight, presuming Cotto wins. Likewise for Manny. Sugar Shane is a far bigger proposition now than he was a couple years ago as well.

Floyd just knows the right time to fight the big fights to maximise the size of the event and his earnings appeal. It's purely good management and a sound business plan.

What he is is smart, not a coward choosing the path of least resistance.

His last 3 fights have been Oscar, Hatton and J M Marquez, all three most likely future Hall of Famers, and his next fight will likely be against the winner of Cotto Pacquaio.

That's a pretty good resume for the path of least resistance.

What I should have said was once he got past Castillo, I respect he gave he a return but since then he has played it safe

He fought Hatton at 147 after Collazo showed how vunerable Hatton was. Why didn't he fight him at 140?

I do realize certain fights & fighters need to be built into an extravaganza, but you can't tell me Tszyu wasn't a serious challenge. In fact I don't even see you mentioning the mans name. A lot like Floyd who quietly avoided him too

Fighting Cotto after he defeated Hatton was the fight everyone was calling for, instead Floyd ran to retirement & let actual warriors (Cotto & Margarito) fight each other

When he fought Oscar it was the worlds best fighter against the worlds most popular, anyone who thought Hatton had a chance was delusional & Marquez had to move up 2 weight classes, wheres the challenge?

The facts are:

He didn't defend against a ranked contender at 135 after the Castillo fights
Only Fought Corley & Gatti at 140 while avoiding the chamion Tszyu
Won the championship at 147 but has never faced a worthy welterweight opponent

This is where you're getting too one sidedly harsh on PBF. PBF moved up to 135 and went straight to the man of the division. He fought Castillo 2 of his 4 fights at 135 lbs. After fighting Castillo there is nothing left at 135. How can you argue PBF moving up after beating the man of the division twice? He would just be feasting on lesser fighters for lesser money which he did for 2 fights afterwards. Enough is enough. Who was left at 135 that would have been worth staying around for? So PBF moved up to 140lbs., and PBF was the one calling for a Tsyzu fight, and barely two fights into PBF's 140 tenure Hatton KO's Tszyu. How is that avoidance? Was PBF really suppose to fight Tszyu then? Bottom line is PBF cleaned out 130, he beat the man at 135 twice, and KO'd the ruler of the 140lbers even though it was 147. Please don't tell me you're one of the people who think Hatton would've won at 140. Hatton isn't more vulnerable at 147 because of the weight gain, heck he walks around in the 170s. Hatton is more vulnerable at 147 because the competition is a lot stiffer at 147 then it is at 140. Maybe PBF moved through 135 and 140 divisions too fast for your liking. But Pacquiao's moving up deserves more scrutiny than PBF's as of yet. Now at 147, PBF's run is deservedly in question.

I don't think I'm being harsh on Mayweather at all. I give him huge credit for taking on the man at 135 Castillo, & even bigger props for facing him again after the closeness of the 1st fight. But instead of defending against Johnston, Spadafora or Dorin all of whom were in the top 5 around the time he fought unrated Sosa & Ndou. Now don't get me wrong I liked the Ndou fight, but the guy was moving up from 130 & wasn't one of the top guys at 130. What was wrong with facing someone like Freitas who was planning to move up or approaching Casamayor? I not saying there was much for him to stay around for at 135 but he should have fought one of the lightweights I mentioned instead of 2 unrated lightweights.

Then moving to 140 he didn't fight Tszyu straight of, then when Hatton defeated Tszyu around the same time Mayweather fought Gatti, instead of fighting Hatton for the championship he chose to move up again & fight Mitchell. I'm not saying Hatton would of one at 140 but at least the fight was more meaningful at that time.

Pacquiao's moving up is a hell of a lot better, he fought Morales in his 1st fight at 130, I didn't like the choice of Diaz but he had fought Morales, Larios, Morales again, Solis, Barrera & Marquez again who were all rated leading up to that fight, so any easy fight could be argued. Then he fought DLH (I think DLH moving that far down was a mistake) & Hatton who was still the champ at 140. Now he's fighting one of the top guys at 147 in Cotto

Mar · #19 (**permalink**) 11-03-2009, 08:03 PM

Doesn't matter who the guy does or doesn't fight anymore....shane damn near breaks his neck to get in the ring and beg for a fight with the same guy who sent him numerous offers in the past. Just a hot min ago pac was the saviour now after marquez.....good grief. On a side note me and the wife met floyd and eller-whatever at the home opener for the kings last night. All that crap he does is a scam to get in our pockets dude was overly nice playing with fans and kids and stuff....even after the punk security tried to move everyone away floyd still waved people over.

Cleon · #20 (**permalink**) 11-04-2009, 08:15 AM

Floyd was insane at 130
Beat the man Castillo at 135
But has been a jive-ass-punk since
He may have made some mad money
But homie played himself

The Boxer · #21 (**permalink**) 11-04-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

For me its not really the case of fighting smaller men, its the fact he has been coasting against safe opponents since his scare with Castillo.

Instead of fighting Dorin or Spadafora he chose Sosa & Ndou

Instead of fighting Tszyu, Cotto or Hatton he chose Corley, Bruseles & Gatti

Instead of fighting Margarito, Mosley or Cintron he chose Mitchell, Judah & Baldomir

Then he took the money fights: DLH & Hatton, nothing wrong with that. But then instead of defending his championship against Cotto or Margarito he chose to retire.

Only to comeback against a lightweight, when guys like Cotto & Mosley reigned in the division.

He took the path of least resistance

If he fights the Pacquioa/ Cotto winner & then the Mosley/ Berto winner all can be forgiven. If he doesn't his legacy will always be questioned!

I'm cool with everything you said except for Tszyu and Dorin. Tszyu was injured for what seem like forever and he didn't seem like he wanted to fight anyway. This is Hindsight but Dorin was a little overated. Didn't Gatti stop him with a body shot. He should have fought Spadafora especialy since it was rumor (don't know if it was true) that spadafora gave PBF some problems in sparring but didn't spadafora do time.

I have more comments but i have to catch the train.

Killface · #22 (**permalink**) 11-04-2009, 04:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Instead of fighting Margarito, Mosley or Cintron he chose Mitchell, Judah & Baldomir

I have to take issue with this one. Sharmba Mitchell was Floyd's first fight at 147. I don't think you can fault a guy for taking a 'feel-out' fight. Zab wasn't a lock- if he'd had common sense at all or heart Zab COULD have won and Carlos Baldomir was the champ. If Zab had minded his business there would have been no fight for Floyd to make with Tata.

Who was Margarito at the time? Sure, he had a belt, but he was calling out Floyd back at 140 because NOBODY knew him, not even Mexican fans. I'll give you Mosley and Cintron, but let's be honest, Kermit has 0 chance at beating PBF. Mosley did and probably still does and we'll see what the new year brings if he beats Berto.

Galaxy · #23 (**permalink**) 11-04-2009, 09:54 PM

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Originally Posted by The Boxer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

For me its not really the case of fighting smaller men, its the fact he has been coasting against safe opponents since his scare with Castillo.

Instead of fighting Dorin or Spadafora he chose Sosa & Ndou

Instead of fighting Tszyu, Cotto or Hatton he chose Corley, Bruseles & Gatti

Instead of fighting Margarito, Mosley or Cintron he chose Mitchell, Judah & Baldomir

Then he took the money fights: DLH & Hatton, nothing wrong with that. But then instead of defending his championship against Cotto or Margarito he chose to retire.

Only to comeback against a lightweight, when guys like Cotto & Mosley reigned in the division.

He took the path of least resistance

If he fights the Pacquioa/ Cotto winner & then the Mosley/ Berto winner all can be forgiven. If he doesn't his legacy will always be questioned!

I'm cool with everything you said except for Tszyu and Dorin. Tszyu was injured for what seem like forever and he didn't seem like he wanted to fight anyway. This is Hindsight but Dorin was a little overated. Didn't Gatti stop him with a body shot. He should have fought Spadafora especialy since it was rumor (don't know if it was true) that spadafora gave PBF some problems in sparring but didn't spadafora do time.

I have more comments but i have to catch the train.

Tszyu was the champ & sure you can say this or that for why the fight didn't happen, the fact he was there at 140 for a year & never fought the champ, when Hatton became champion what did Floyd do? He moved up to take on Mitchell instead...

Sure its easy to say Dorin was over rated now, but at the time him, Johnston & Spadafora were all top 5 & both Dorin & Spadafora were undefeated. Instead of fighting those guys he fought unrated lightweights. Leaving Spadafora & Dorin to fight each other, just like he made Cotto & Margarito do. You can say whatever you want about these fighters now, but the fact is they had the balls to fight each other

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Originally Posted by Killface

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Instead of fighting Margarito, Mosley or Cintron he chose Mitchell, Judah & Baldomir

I have to take issue with this one. Sharmba Mitchell was Floyd's first fight at 147. I don't think you can fault a guy for taking a 'feel-out' fight. Zab wasn't a lock- if he'd had common sense at all or heart Zab COULD have won and Carlos Baldomir was the champ. If Zab had minded his business there would have been no fight for Floyd to make with Tata.

Who was Margarito at the time? Sure, he had a belt, but he was calling out Floyd back at 140 because NOBODY knew him, not even Mexican fans. I'll give you Mosley and Cintron, but let's be honest, Kermit has 0 chance at beating PBF. Mosley did and probably still does and we'll see what the new year brings if he beats Berto.

Yeah Mitchell was Floyd's 1st fight at 147, the issue for me is he took that fight instead of fighting Hatton who had become champ while Floyd was still there. At 135 his 1st fight was the champ Castillo. So what was wrong with Margarito or Mosley as a 1st fight at 147 for a guy like Floyd who had so much promise? Who was Margarito? Who the hell was Mitchell at 147? Even Cintron who I agree probably had no chance of beating Floyd would have been a better choice than Mitchell.

When Mayweather stepped up to 135 he took the best there was... Castillo. When he went to 140 he didn't get Tszyu or Hatton. At 147 he took the money in a no need fight against Judah instead of Mosley or Margarito & then instead of defending against Cotto or Margarito once he won the championship he took the Money again against DLH & Hatton. Then with no where left to hide he ran into retirement leaving Cotto & Margarito to face off. Then instead of coming back against the best welter Mosley (a move an ATG like Leonard did after 3 years against Hagler) Mayweather fights a lightweight!

The Boxer · #24 (**permalink**) 11-06-2009, 02:18 PM

I think everyone on here is making excellent points. The problem i'm having is people acting like Hatton was a nobody. When PBF fought Hatton he was undefeated. Before the fight people said PBF was ducking him and that Hatton was to strong and would apply to much presser. Matter fact every since PBF move up to from 135 all we heard about was how a fighter would apply all this presser on PBF and beat him. Anyway people begged for a Hatton fight. PBF fans like myself said all along that Hatton could win. The Haters said PBF was ducking him. Now when PBF KO's Hatton everyone acts like Hatton was nobody.

Why does PBF get no props for beating Hatton when everyone wanted to see that fight. Thats why i say he won't get any props for fighting Shane or PAC even though people are begging for those fights to take place.