Thread: Slander for slander

Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy

Originally Posted by Youngblood

Way back when Paulie started this open talk of Pac taking roids I suggested then it could end up in libel. That it even should. His voice isn't quite as loud as Mayweathers tho nor does it carry as much weight so when I saw the Mayweather camp doing it also, I thought to myself, well this could easily be a libel case. And I sorta wished there would be some kinda court case. But not at the expense of the fight. People need to realize you can't say things as such unless you can prove it to be truth.

I want for you to consider for a minute me taking your name and doing the worst possibly thing with it. Then telling you, personally, prove otherwise, or you are guilty. And it might be very difficult to prove. And maybe just my claim alone will damage you. Lets say you are applying for jobs in the future, and your name when punched into google by future potential employers comes up with all these allegations. Chances are, you are already damaged goods in some form of public opinion now and subjected to the reasoning behind libel laws.

This ofc put Pac in an awkward position. But I do think the right course if he is clean is to prove to them he is in fact clean. And then sue their damn asses off. And if he isn't clean, then o well, guess they were right.

I think there is a pretty big difference between a weight issue which we know Floyd already took advantage of with JMM, accepting a fine in lieu an advantage of coming in a bit over, and cheating with drugs.

I understand his actions, but as a fan who wants to see the fight happen, I don't like them because it may not happen. But I'm not entirely sure where to put the blame.

I'm actually quite glad that someone got to fuck with Roach and Pac like they've been fucking with fighters for some time now. Guess it took someone like Mayweather to do it. Good on him

My statement had/has nothing to do with bias. Only about libel.

Yours clearly does.

Big diff.

I think what has happened is this situation is mostly prefight hype, that ended up getting colored outside the lines. I don't think they were reading from a script (both sides), but from a playbook without guidelines. "Lets hype this thing!" And in doing so, Mayweathers took a step too far and forgot about the law with how serious of an allegation it was. Unless they know something we all don't, they could end up settling a big lawsuit out of court and it costing them. Plus could have derailed the whole deal. I wouldn't stand for anyone suggesting I was juicing either, and trying to belittle all my accomplishments, past and present. I'd sue their asses too for the next person to think twice about before trying the same thing.

Originally Posted by erik_corrales

Originally Posted by miles

No, you are wrong. Manny has chickened out. This is no hype.

Let's just face up to the facts. The fight is off.

i don't think manny ever chickened out. he's just looking out for his own good. remember, these are two big-egos we're talking about. i don't think anyone is backing down from this fight.

here's the thing, i heard that even before the hatton fight, team pac has been wanting to get a fight with floyd. roach was obviously upset when floyd took on marquez right before the pac-hatton fight. why would pac chicken out now? when he had just put a stellar performance vs. cotto threat. what did mayweather have, a one-sided(expected) fight with a bloated up marquez? pac fought the way he did against cotto (taking cotto's shots deliberately) to show that he's not afraid of heavy punches - what more potshots. roach wanted pac to KO cotto in the 12th round because he knows this would give them leverage should a mayweather fight exist. it's all about leverage.

the slander case will be settled outside of the court and pac and floyd will make a compromise for the fight contract. unlimited urine testing is the key since some scientific articles proved that hgh and epo(drugs in question) are detectable in urine. pac-floyd will push through 2010. biggest hype up to a fight, biggest payday in the history of boxing. that's how you make history.

p.s. i never knew glenlivet was this good.

Perhaps chickening out was the wrong way to put it, but to turn down the defining fight of your career over a demand to ensure cleanliness at the highest level is nuts. Starting legal proceedings so late after letting it go for so long also seems to me somewhat opportunistic. "We would like a random drugs test". "No". The public then gets upset and starts slinging mud. Manny's team: "Right that's it. We sue!". It is a bit crass and on that basis alone seems unreasonable. If the slander was so annoying, then he could have taken proceedings when it happened. But he didn't, he let it go. And saying it was because he was focussing on Cotto? Pac wouldn't have been organising anything, he would have had a legal team to do all the hard work for him. I've gone on a little tangent there, but at the end of the day also just want the fight made.

Originally Posted by miles

Perhaps chickening out was the wrong way to put it, but to turn down the defining fight of your career over a demand to ensure cleanliness at the highest level is nuts. Starting legal proceedings so late after letting it go for so long also seems to me somewhat opportunistic. "We would like a random drugs test". "No". The public then gets upset and starts slinging mud. Manny's team: "Right that's it. We sue!". It is a bit crass and on that basis alone seems unreasonable. If the slander was so annoying, then he could have taken proceedings when it happened. But he didn't, he let it go. And saying it was because he was focussing on Cotto? Pac wouldn't have been organising anything, he would have had a legal team to do all the hard work for him. I've gone on a little tangent there, but at the end of the day also just want the fight made.

he wasn't turning down. he was willing to fight. just not on mayweathers' terms. random blood testing was excessive and intrusive. simple as that.

why sue now? because it's gone way overboard. he didn't sue then because it was just that, accusations. even roach said mayweather sr. was "harmless". but now that they're facing against each other, it's a different story. add to that some boxers jumping on the "roidwagon". who wouldn't sue? let the man have his dignity.

i'll put it like this, say some rich billionaire pervert guy(pacquiao) has gotten married with a few girls(OLDH, hatton, cotto) and some dad(maweather sr.) says "oh that guy has aids(roids)". guy brushes it off, what good would it do to him to confront a bitter dad. all the marriages get filed for divorce(with OLDH, hatton and cotto) maybe cause he's too rough with the sex and now wants to court the dad's daughter(mayweather jr.) and the dad(sr.) starts saying "hey jr, don't go out with this guy, he must have aids. he's always sick and stuff". daughter has a dilemma cause she knows she wants to marry a rich guy and is into S&M but isn't so sure if it would pay off for a bunch of reasons(cause he's a womanizer or does/doesn't have aids). but guy knows in his mind that he doesn't have aids(or knows he doesn't, he uses rubber). he's had physical exams and blood tests and always passed with flying colors. now dad and girl want guy tested before they even start going out with each other and everytime before going out on a date, even before they get married. wouldn't you be insulted by that? then all these other girls(cintron, malignaggi) say "yeah he has aids, i know in my mind he has aids" even though they haven't even slept with the guy. i think that does warrant some dignity for the guy.

weird, fucked up analogy with holes, i know. but this is the way i see manny is taking it.

i for one thinks pacquiao has something to hide! he's willing to go to court and possibly not have this fight for a measly blood exam? looks to me and to every boxing fan (except pactardos) that he's hiding something. it only makes him that more suspicious that he's been on something since the 3rd morales fight. pacquiao looked like a damned welterweight compared to morales and it showed in his performance. mayweather jr. has every right to be concerned if pacquiao is taking steroids/PED's or not cause he's the one who was supposed to fight him. unfortunately, the boxing world will probably miss out on a great event but only because pacquiao is a lying, cheating coward who quite frankly is beginning to be an embarrassment to boxing.

Originally Posted by erik_corrales

Originally Posted by miles

Perhaps chickening out was the wrong way to put it, but to turn down the defining fight of your career over a demand to ensure cleanliness at the highest level is nuts. Starting legal proceedings so late after letting it go for so long also seems to me somewhat opportunistic. "We would like a random drugs test". "No". The public then gets upset and starts slinging mud. Manny's team: "Right that's it. We sue!". It is a bit crass and on that basis alone seems unreasonable. If the slander was so annoying, then he could have taken proceedings when it happened. But he didn't, he let it go. And saying it was because he was focussing on Cotto? Pac wouldn't have been organising anything, he would have had a legal team to do all the hard work for him. I've gone on a little tangent there, but at the end of the day also just want the fight made.

he wasn't turning down. he was willing to fight. just not on mayweathers' terms. random blood testing was excessive and intrusive. simple as that.

why sue now? because it's gone way overboard. he didn't sue then because it was just that, accusations. even roach said mayweather sr. was "harmless". but now that they're facing against each other, it's a different story. add to that some boxers jumping on the "roidwagon". who wouldn't sue? let the man have his dignity.

i'll put it like this, say some rich billionaire pervert guy(pacquiao) has gotten married with a few girls(OLDH, hatton, cotto) and some dad(maweather sr.) says "oh that guy has aids(roids)". guy brushes it off, what good would it do to him to confront a bitter dad. all the marriages get filed for divorce(with OLDH, hatton and cotto) maybe cause he's too rough with the sex and now wants to court the dad's daughter(mayweather jr.) and the dad(sr.) starts saying "hey jr, don't go out with this guy, he must have aids. he's always sick and stuff". daughter has a dilemma cause she knows she wants to marry a rich guy and is into S&M but isn't so sure if it would pay off for a bunch of reasons(cause he's a womanizer or does/doesn't have aids). but guy knows in his mind that he doesn't have aids(or knows he doesn't, he uses rubber). he's had physical exams and blood tests and always passed with flying colors. now dad and girl want guy tested before they even start going out with each other and everytime before going out on a date, even before they get married. wouldn't you be insulted by that? then all these other girls(cintron, malignaggi) say "yeah he has aids, i know in my mind he has aids" even though they haven't even slept with the guy. i think that does warrant some dignity for the guy.

weird, fucked up analogy with holes, i know. but this is the way i see manny is taking it.

Haha, funny post!

But humour aside, you do make some good points. Having said that though, this is suppposedly a professional sport. If there are kinks in the testing and one fighter has decided that he wants the testing just to make sure, then you have to go with that. You could even reverse it and say "He thinks I'm that good. I'm performing so well because I must be on drugs. Haha!". Manny needs to chill a bit and just get the fight made. The people encouraging him saying "You mustn't back down etc" need to pipe down. This fight needs to happen and if that means giving a bit of blood then so be it. The ultimate satisfaction would surely come from beating Mayweather rather than cancelling completely and going off to fight Foreman. But maybe that's just me, surely not though?

Originally Posted by miles

Haha, funny post!

But humour aside, you do make some good points. Having said that though, this is suppposedly a professional sport. If there are kinks in the testing and one fighter has decided that he wants the testing just to make sure, then you have to go with that. You could even reverse it and say "He thinks I'm that good. I'm performing so well because I must be on drugs. Haha!". Manny needs to chill a bit and just get the fight made. The people encouraging him saying "You mustn't back down etc" need to pipe down. This fight needs to happen and if that means giving a bit of blood then so be it. The ultimate satisfaction would surely come from beating Mayweather rather than cancelling completely and going off to fight Foreman. But maybe that's just me, surely not though?

we all want the fight to happen. WE ALL DO.

its just the random blood testing that's being a 300strong spartan army that's in the way of getting the fight made.

i'm gonna have to side with pac with the issue though. blood testing is intrusive and excessive. people are saying "take the tests and prove that you're clean", it isn't that simple. for one, he does risk losing psychological edge. second, i've had a blood sample taken from me a while back. unfortunately i had to take it twice cause at first, the nurse kept screwing up, not finding my vein so he wiggled the needle around looking for a vein. he didn't find one. so he had to take from my other arm. he got it right. that whole day, i wasn't confident with stretching my arm cause it felt like my veins were messed up, even though i wasn't really sure about it. maybe it was all in my head. it did bruise though. i was even supposed to try and train but i just cancelled. point is, getting into a big fight like this and knowing you can possibly be beat mentally by taking blood samples is a big "stick-your-chin-out" for pacquiao. it can ruin your training camp and it can mess up you game physically and mentally.

there's always a way to get the fight made. and that's through nanotrap testing.

Originally Posted by erik_corrales

Originally Posted by miles

Haha, funny post!

But humour aside, you do make some good points. Having said that though, this is suppposedly a professional sport. If there are kinks in the testing and one fighter has decided that he wants the testing just to make sure, then you have to go with that. You could even reverse it and say "He thinks I'm that good. I'm performing so well because I must be on drugs. Haha!". Manny needs to chill a bit and just get the fight made. The people encouraging him saying "You mustn't back down etc" need to pipe down. This fight needs to happen and if that means giving a bit of blood then so be it. The ultimate satisfaction would surely come from beating Mayweather rather than cancelling completely and going off to fight Foreman. But maybe that's just me, surely not though?

we all want the fight to happen. WE ALL DO.

its just the random blood testing that's being a 300strong spartan army that's in the way of getting the fight made.

i'm gonna have to side with pac with the issue though. blood testing is intrusive and excessive. people are saying "take the tests and prove that you're clean", it isn't that simple. for one, he does risk losing psychological edge. second, i've had a blood sample taken from me a while back. unfortunately i had to take it twice cause at first, the nurse kept screwing up, not finding my vein so he wiggled the needle around looking for a vein. he didn't find one. so he had to take from my other arm. he got it right. that whole day, i wasn't confident with stretching my arm cause it felt like my veins were messed up, even though i wasn't really sure about it. maybe it was all in my head. it did bruise though. i was even supposed to try and train but i just cancelled. point is, getting into a big fight like this and knowing you can possibly be beat mentally by taking blood samples is a big "stick-your-chin-out" for pacquiao. it can ruin your training camp and it can mess up you game physically and mentally.

there's always a way to get the fight made. and that's through nanotrap testing.

How is it a psychological edge for Mayweather if he's going through the same tests?

Originally Posted by killersheep

How is it a psychological edge for Mayweather if he's going through the same tests?

cause he's the one who asked for it. it kinda comes with mayweather having a history of being a diva. and what do you get when you have two diva's of conflicting interests? one trying to one up the other.

it would've been a different story if the nsac decided to "mandate blood testing all combat sports by december 2009". but it wasn't. it's "floyd 'money' mayweather jr. and co. asks for olympic style blood testing". why now? why not two month's ago vs. marquez? why not when pacquiao was fighting hatton, mayweather sr. was there too. it's because mayweather wants psychological edge. he wants all advantages possible. that's why i think pacquiao isn't backing down.

Originally Posted by erik_corrales

Originally Posted by miles

Perhaps chickening out was the wrong way to put it, but to turn down the defining fight of your career over a demand to ensure cleanliness at the highest level is nuts. Starting legal proceedings so late after letting it go for so long also seems to me somewhat opportunistic. "We would like a random drugs test". "No". The public then gets upset and starts slinging mud. Manny's team: "Right that's it. We sue!". It is a bit crass and on that basis alone seems unreasonable. If the slander was so annoying, then he could have taken proceedings when it happened. But he didn't, he let it go. And saying it was because he was focussing on Cotto? Pac wouldn't have been organising anything, he would have had a legal team to do all the hard work for him. I've gone on a little tangent there, but at the end of the day also just want the fight made.

he wasn't turning down. he was willing to fight. just not on mayweathers' terms. random blood testing was excessive and intrusive. simple as that.

why sue now? because it's gone way overboard. he didn't sue then because it was just that, accusations. even roach said mayweather sr. was "harmless". but now that they're facing against each other, it's a different story. add to that some boxers jumping on the "roidwagon". who wouldn't sue? let the man have his dignity.

i'll put it like this, say some rich billionaire pervert guy(pacquiao) has gotten married with a few girls(OLDH, hatton, cotto) and some dad(maweather sr.) says "oh that guy has aids(roids)". guy brushes it off, what good would it do to him to confront a bitter dad. all the marriages get filed for divorce(with OLDH, hatton and cotto) maybe cause he's too rough with the sex and now wants to court the dad's daughter(mayweather jr.) and the dad(sr.) starts saying "hey jr, don't go out with this guy, he must have aids. he's always sick and stuff". daughter has a dilemma cause she knows she wants to marry a rich guy and is into S&M but isn't so sure if it would pay off for a bunch of reasons(cause he's a womanizer or does/doesn't have aids). but guy knows in his mind that he doesn't have aids(or knows he doesn't, he uses rubber). he's had physical exams and blood tests and always passed with flying colors. now dad and girl want guy tested before they even start going out with each other and everytime before going out on a date, even before they get married. wouldn't you be insulted by that? then all these other girls(cintron, malignaggi) say "yeah he has aids, i know in my mind he has aids" even though they haven't even slept with the guy. i think that does warrant some dignity for the guy.

weird, fucked up analogy with holes, i know. but this is the way i see manny is taking it.

lol. Oh man what an analogy!

Originally Posted by erik_corrales

Originally Posted by killersheep

How is it a psychological edge for Mayweather if he's going through the same tests?

cause he's the one who asked for it. it kinda comes with mayweather having a history of being a diva. and what do you get when you have two diva's of conflicting interests? one trying to one up the other.

it would've been a different story if the nsac decided to "mandate blood testing all combat sports by december 2009". but it wasn't. it's "floyd 'money' mayweather jr. and co. asks for olympic style blood testing". why now? why not two month's ago vs. marquez? why not when pacquiao was fighting hatton, mayweather sr. was there too. it's because mayweather wants psychological edge. he wants all advantages possible. that's why i think pacquiao isn't backing down.

I thought the mental issue was from giving the blood?

Originally Posted by killersheep

I thought the mental issue was from giving the blood?

so you do believe there is a mental issue? yes, giving the blood possibly a few hours before the fight. pac was willing to give blood anyway. its the few hours before it that can be crucial to his a-game.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by erik_corrales

Originally Posted by miles

Perhaps chickening out was the wrong way to put it, but to turn down the defining fight of your career over a demand to ensure cleanliness at the highest level is nuts. Starting legal proceedings so late after letting it go for so long also seems to me somewhat opportunistic. "We would like a random drugs test". "No". The public then gets upset and starts slinging mud. Manny's team: "Right that's it. We sue!". It is a bit crass and on that basis alone seems unreasonable. If the slander was so annoying, then he could have taken proceedings when it happened. But he didn't, he let it go. And saying it was because he was focussing on Cotto? Pac wouldn't have been organising anything, he would have had a legal team to do all the hard work for him. I've gone on a little tangent there, but at the end of the day also just want the fight made.

he wasn't turning down. he was willing to fight. just not on mayweathers' terms. random blood testing was excessive and intrusive. simple as that.

why sue now? because it's gone way overboard. he didn't sue then because it was just that, accusations. even roach said mayweather sr. was "harmless". but now that they're facing against each other, it's a different story. add to that some boxers jumping on the "roidwagon". who wouldn't sue? let the man have his dignity.

i'll put it like this, say some rich billionaire pervert guy(pacquiao) has gotten married with a few girls(OLDH, hatton, cotto) and some dad(maweather sr.) says "oh that guy has aids(roids)". guy brushes it off, what good would it do to him to confront a bitter dad. all the marriages get filed for divorce(with OLDH, hatton and cotto) maybe cause he's too rough with the sex and now wants to court the dad's daughter(mayweather jr.) and the dad(sr.) starts saying "hey jr, don't go out with this guy, he must have aids. he's always sick and stuff". daughter has a dilemma cause she knows she wants to marry a rich guy and is into S&M but isn't so sure if it would pay off for a bunch of reasons(cause he's a womanizer or does/doesn't have aids). but guy knows in his mind that he doesn't have aids(or knows he doesn't, he uses rubber). he's had physical exams and blood tests and always passed with flying colors. now dad and girl want guy tested before they even start going out with each other and everytime before going out on a date, even before they get married. wouldn't you be insulted by that? then all these other girls(cintron, malignaggi) say "yeah he has aids, i know in my mind he has aids" even though they haven't even slept with the guy. i think that does warrant some dignity for the guy.

weird, fucked up analogy with holes, i know. but this is the way i see manny is taking it.

Haha, funny post!

But humour aside, you do make some good points. Having said that though, this is suppposedly a professional sport. If there are kinks in the testing and one fighter has decided that he wants the testing just to make sure, then you have to go with that. You could even reverse it and say "He thinks I'm that good. I'm performing so well because I must be on drugs. Haha!". Manny needs to chill a bit and just get the fight made. The people encouraging him saying "You mustn't back down etc" need to pipe down. This fight needs to happen and if that means giving a bit of blood then so be it. The ultimate satisfaction would surely come from beating Mayweather rather than cancelling completely and going off to fight Foreman. But maybe that's just me, surely not though?

links given by one poster here before anyone talks about being experts on PED especially my good friend miles.

Scientists say breakthrough urine test for HGH developed - USATODAY.com

EPO Drug Testing