Thread: My theory on why Mayweather and Pacquiao are dominating...

Of course speed is a reason but most surprisingly, I think the real reason is strength. I think that's why a fight between the two is so interesting. Guys like Mosley, Cotto, Hatton, ODLH, etc... all these guys at welterweight worry about making weight. Instead of them putting on muscle to gain strength and speed at the same time, a lot of these guys are only running and sparring to lose weight. Mayweather and Manny are both guys that walk around below or near the welterweight limit very comfortably. They can do all their running and sparring but they can also weight lift to get stronger and more explosive while keeping there speed. If you notice, Mosley was the naturally bigger guy on Saturday but he wasn't as strong and sturdy as Mayweather. Mayweather was able to match and even in some cases beat Mosley's strength even though he's a smaller man than Mosley. It's because Mosley may be naturally heavier but that doesn't mean he's as physically strong. Same with Pacquiao, Cotto's a naturally larger man, but Pacquiao's being able to put on lean muscle creates strength, punching power, and explosiveness. Both Mayweather and Pacquiao have room to put on muscle and that coupled with their skill and condition is allowing them to completely DOMINATE the welterweight division despite being smaller guys IMO.

With Pacquaio that may be true. But for Mayweather I doubt that's the case. He easily re-hydrated to something along the lines of 160 against his fight with JMM. Also watching episodes of 24/7 he wasn't able to give urine samples to the USADA operatives until a span of several hours. Look at his eyes during training the guy is badly dehydrated cutting weight for the fight.

For Pacquiao, yes he has Alex Ariza which is an extremely smart move and why many British fighters suck because they have old school trainers who tell them "weights will make you slow" - Absolute bullshit. Why do Khan and Macklin look so much more explosive now?

But for Mayweather..hmm, I'm not sure..his strength and conditioning coach is Leonard Ellerbe. I imagine the most he knows about "weight training" is gorging on pork pies. (I guess he can get a little bicep curl going)

The most I've seen Mayweather do with weights is punching with dumbells. Hardly explosive weight training. I think he is too stubborn to give money to anybody outside of his camp so just pays Leonard to hold his feet while his does situps and count punches on a counter.

Good theory - but you need to remember, Cotto is another of the smart ones that has a strength and conditioning coach who featured throughout his camp with Pacquiao.

I think people mistakenly correlate weights = muscle.

Not so, you can still do weights and not put on any muscle. For example, Mosley could still do weights if he's trying to make weight to keep his power. The fact that he would be on a low calorie diet means that HE WOULD NOT put on any muscle. You can do weights until you're blue in the face but if you aren't feeding the muscles after they've been damaged, they ain't growing!

Also, how many people do you see who go to your gym and NEVER look any different? 95% of the membership base? You might see them working their ass of but their diet SUCKS - Muscles do not grow without the calories and protein just like a car does not drive without fuel

i agree in a way that when a fighter has to come down in weight for a fight pending on how its been done can leave a fighter weak and sluggish, but i dont think adding size/weight makes the other fighters named more explosive or faster tbh thats not really what the weight liftings about in boxing in my opinion.

i have pointed this out before, pac is near his walking natural weight thats why he doesnt need to dehydrate himself.

he also has more stamina cause he did not forced his body to lose weight then rehydrate back within 24hrs.

Originally Posted by Stale_hotdog

With Pacquaio that may be true. But for Mayweather I doubt that's the case. He easily re-hydrated to something along the lines of 160 against his fight with JMM. Also watching episodes of 24/7 he wasn't able to give urine samples to the USADA operatives until a span of several hours. Look at his eyes during training the guy is badly dehydrated cutting weight for the fight.

No way, Mayweather has always been fine making weight at welterweight, and he only came back up to 152 against JMM, and likely around there against Mosley.

The reason Mayweather and Pacquiao do so well is number of reasons, but probably the most important one is their work ethics. They work harder than anyone else and that means they stay fresher for longer, and they are in the fight for every second of every round, they don't get complacent or miss a beat at any point in a fight.

Their speed is obviously impressive, but there have been equally fast guys who haven't dominated like them. I also think its because of their technique, they are great at throwing both straight punches and hooks, but its their cardio that allows them to always dictate the pace they want to fight at.

As Taeth said both guys put in their work at the gym. While they are benefitting from nutrition and weights... I'd like to mention here that it is true what they say about 90% of the game being mental. Their training and their teams have served them well and it shows in their confidence.

Both of course have access to some of the best Ring IQ's in boxing. Without Roach, Pac would be losing to every fighter that decided to use a jab (like Morales did) to turn Pac on the way in and then circle out. So freddy had him mix it up a bit, feint a little, before stepping into his powershots and then get out before the return. They know who to go after, when and how. Roach is very good at picking out bad habits of fighters and capitalizing on those opportunities.

Mayweather grew up in a family of fighters and in a ring. He is a thinking fighter than changes on the fly, uses his shoulders, head /upperbody movement, reflexes, mind games before the fight and everything else in his arsenal to get his opponents where he wants them. He'd good at solving problems mid fight.

Not that I am disagreeing on the muscle and nutrition points made above. There are lot fighters with great physiques like Tommy Morrison that have become punching bags because they thought they were stronger and in better shape than other guys. There were also a few guys like Lennox Lewis who didnt always come in as tight as they could but could still eek out a win by out thinking the other guy. Just a thought..

I think they are dominating because they are just better fighters than everyone else.

Good theories... Quite a way outside of my scope of boxing knowledge but i will say one thing... Corrales who was 6ft 1ins blew up to 160 in his fight with Clottey after weighing in at 147.

Now if a guy standing at 6ft 1 only blows up to 160 then I just can't see Mayweather getting near that kind of weight on fight night.

My point being; I'm pretty sure Mayweather doesn't have to cut too much weight to make 147.

But like i say, sports nutrition and 'explosive' weight training ain't my thing



P.S Im also pretty sure Tommy Morrison became a punching bang when he stopped juicing.

I personally think its cause they r known to both eat alot of cheese. And of corse we all no cheese give u superpowers. Might even try abit myself, mind u saying that I've never been one for superpowers, maybe next year

Originally Posted by WayneFlint

but i dont think adding size/weight makes the other fighters named more explosive or faster tbh thats not really what the weight liftings about in boxing in my opinion.

What is weight lifting in boxing about then?

If you are doing something, you should do it for a reason. Just like if you're doing weights or resistance training it should be geared towards what you want to be doing in the ring - You want to be faster, stronger and more explosive.

If you're moving up in weight is the only reason you would do weights to bulk up. Otherwise you shouldn't want to be bulky for the sake of it..it should be functional weight.

Good example - Alex Ariza with Manny Pac..hitting tyres with sledge hammer/medicine balls. Good for explosive power.

Bad example - Kerry Kayes with Ricky Hatton. Makes Ricky do lateral raises and reverse flyes using a slow tempo. No functionality in what he is doing at all.

Camp Ricky, if you need a trainer call me

Originally Posted by Althugz

Originally Posted by WayneFlint

but i dont think adding size/weight makes the other fighters named more explosive or faster tbh thats not really what the weight liftings about in boxing in my opinion.

What is weight lifting in boxing about then?

If you are doing something, you should do it for a reason. Just like if you're doing weights or resistance training it should be geared towards what you want to be doing in the ring - You want to be faster, stronger and more explosive.

If you're moving up in weight is the only reason you would do weights to bulk up. Otherwise you shouldn't want to be bulky for the sake of it..it should be functional weight.

Good example - Alex Ariza with Manny Pac..hitting tyres with sledge hammer/medicine balls. Good for explosive power.

Bad example - Kerry Kayes with Ricky Hatton. Makes Ricky do lateral raises and reverse flyes using a slow tempo. No functionality in what he is doing at all.

Camp Ricky, if you need a trainer call me

Kery Kayes helped Hatton alot with his weight.Hatton was alot better at making the weight with Kayes in his corner look at the weighing against Manny Hatton looked shocking.

He may have helped him with losing body fat through cardio - Or maybe the weights helped him burn the extra calories he might have retained when training with Floyd Sr...

But fact remains, Kayes knows fuck all about training a boxer functionally with weights.

Originally Posted by Althugz

Originally Posted by WayneFlint

but i dont think adding size/weight makes the other fighters named more explosive or faster tbh thats not really what the weight liftings about in boxing in my opinion.

What is weight lifting in boxing about then?

If you are doing something, you should do it for a reason. Just like if you're doing weights or resistance training it should be geared towards what you want to be doing in the ring - You want to be faster, stronger and more explosive.

If you're moving up in weight is the only reason you would do weights to bulk up. Otherwise you shouldn't want to be bulky for the sake of it..it should be functional weight.

Good example - Alex Ariza with Manny Pac..hitting tyres with sledge hammer/medicine balls. Good for explosive power.

Bad example - Kerry Kayes with Ricky Hatton. Makes Ricky do lateral raises and reverse flyes using a slow tempo. No functionality in what he is doing at all.

Camp Ricky, if you need a trainer call me

Personally i think weight lifting is useful in boxing to be able to gain and drop weight for fights, it gives you an understanding of your body and how to manage your weight, also enables you to drop or gain weight as easily as either not hitting the weights or by hitting them hard and eating to build mass, if you werent to lift weights as a boxer i believe it would be much harder to drop or add weight in preperation for a fight, like i said this is just my personal experience i know before i started lifting if i had to put weight on for a fight because of my high metabolizm it was near impossible aswell with the workrate undertaken to prep for a fight just makes it even harder still and vice versa to drop weight would be much harder and you would be looking at fighting at a dangerousely drained state if losing fat is your only option to lose weight where as if you have muscle there that can be dropped much easier and faster you decrease the risk of fighting dehydrated/drained etc. aswell it astheticly looks much better if you can add size to make weight for a fight rather than just adding mainly fat which i suspect is what would happen if a boxer that didnt lift weights tried to move up a class to many in too short a time, aswell it just looks more intimidating which helps gain the mental edge what everyone is trying to do with the stare downs pre fight.