Thread: Pacquiao and the ped issue

First off i apolagise because i no this thread has been done to death so many times already. But here we are yet again.

Ok, the reason i just brought this up again is because obviously its such a hot topic. But the real reason is ive been watching Pacquiaos past dust ups down at the lighter weights against the marquee names such as morales, barrera and marquez. And to be honest to this day i feel hes the same fighter, same style,same tenacity, but just more polished (hence the way he doesnt get as wreckless when he feels he has someone hurt) and of corse this is an improvement, but this is understood because of his work with the seems to be great coach Freddie Roach over time.

Heres where the so called p.e.ds come in. If u look at compubox stats (questionable i no) his punch output in the higher weights (lightweight plus) is higher than his lower weight reign (superfeather and below). And yeah it does seem very strange how a Pacman alot heavier can have higher output than a lowerweight Pacman and even still carry his powerup in weight and even still seem to improve on that power. When people see this (and yes i have been one of them) this cannot be, this man MUST be taking something.

My own personal thoughts on the matter after some research, hence my sister bein a sports nutritionist, and having more insight onto the moving up in weight and carrying the power and speed at the same time and even improving on this are as follows: Pacquiao must have been starving himself at some point during training camp at the lighterweights and it would of to a degree limited his true potential as a fighter. And where hes moved up thru the weights his overall food intake and natural growth has increased his performance as a fighter (hence the greater compubox stats).This is very feasable, but not all fighters are the same in this respect.

In closing this analogy i would like to finish up saying that i really, truly believe we are dealing with a truly special once in a lifetime fighter in Manny Pacquiao.And that im not 100% sure but pretty certain that what this man has done and is continuing to do is biologically feasable, and i do think he is free of any p.e.d.s and all his work is natural and God given.

Once again apolagies too anybody who is sick to death of this topic, i just wanted to give my 2 cents on the matter.

No need to apologize, you have all the right to express your opinion in here. The last I heard this is still a boxing forum and Pacquiao is a boxer. For those who are already sick and tired of this issue there are several other threads that they can read instead. If they decide to open up this thread, then they're interested in it.

I believe that you are an unbias boxing fan with regards to this issue so your opinion is worth considering. It's alway refreshing to hear an unbias opinion. We know who the Pachaters or the Pactards are, their opinion with regards to this isue should be taken with a grain of salt. Even my opinion would probably not be considered as unbias so I would not provide any more comment to the Ped issue.

Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCorner

No need to apologize, you have all the right to express your opinion in here. The last I heard this is still a boxing forum and Pacquiao is a boxer. For those who are already sick and tired of this issue there are several other threads that they can read instead. If they decide to open up this thread, then they're interested in it.

I believe that you are an unbias boxing fan with regards to this issue so your opinion is worth considering. It's alway refreshing to hear an unbias opinion. We know who the Pachaters or the Pactards are, their opinion
with regards to this isue should be taken with a grain of
salt. Even my opinion would probably not be considered
as unbias so I would not provide any more comment to
the Ped issue.

I appreciate ur comments mate. I suppose I just wanted too get people to keep an open mind on the subject with regards to which ever side of the fence their on.

Originally Posted by paddy448

First off i apolagise because i no this thread has been done to death so many times already. But here we are yet again.

Ok, the reason i just brought this up again is because obviously its such a hot topic. But the real reason is ive been watching Pacquiaos past dust ups down at the lighter weights against the marquee names such as morales, barrera and marquez. And to be honest to this day i feel hes the same fighter, same style,same tenacity, but just more polished (hence the way he doesnt get as wreckless when he feels he has someone hurt) and of corse this is an improvement, but this is understood because of his work with the seems to be great coach Freddie Roach over time.

Heres where the so called p.e.ds come in. If u look at compubox stats (questionable i no) his punch output in the higher weights (lightweight plus) is higher than his lower weight reign (superfeather and below). And yeah it does seem very strange how a Pacman alot heavier can have higher output than a lowerweight Pacman and even still carry his powerup in weight and even still seem to improve on that power. When people see this (and yes i have been one of them) this cannot be, this man MUST be taking something.

My own personal thoughts on the matter after some research, hence my sister bein a sports nutritionist, and having more insight onto the moving up in weight and carrying the power and speed at the same time and even improving on this are as follows: Pacquiao must have been starving himself at some point during training camp at the lighterweights and it would of to a degree limited his true potential as a fighter. And where hes moved up thru the weights his overall food intake and natural growth has increased his performance as a fighter (hence the greater compubox stats).This is very feasable, but not all fighters are the same in this respect.

In closing this analogy i would like to finish up saying that i really, truly believe we are dealing with a truly special once in a lifetime fighter in Manny Pacquiao.And that im not 100% sure but pretty certain that what this man has done and is continuing to do is biologically feasable, and i do think he is free of any p.e.d.s and all his work is natural and God given.

Once again apolagies too anybody who is sick to death of this topic, i just wanted to give my 2 cents on the matter.

I am neither a pacfan nor a pachater...

"Opinions" and "Theories" are just that. Why keeping starting new threads on an issue that has been "done to Death" as you said? Why not keep it all in one or two threads.

[quote]No need to apologize, you have all the right to express your opinion in here. The last I heard this is still a boxing forum and Pacquiao is a boxer. For those who are already sick and tired of this issue there are several other threads that they can read instead. If they decide to open up this thread, then they're interested in it.

I read most of the threads here (don't comment on most as my post count shows) but why spread the same questions and responses on the same issue out over a half dozen threads or more when 2 would do? Gets a little tiring having to jump all over the place, simply because some one wants to start a new thread with their name as the first poster.

Fair comments ghost

well its a fact that pac had a hard time losing weight and was weight drained in several fights. he lost a belt outside of the ring cause he wasnt able to make weight. he also suffered a KO loss for the same reason.

the old pac just punches in bunches, he still does but at a pace. boxers who fight like pac doesnt have a long shelf life in boxing simply cause he needs a ton of energy and stamina to be effective. age plays a big factor and now that he is getting old roach thought him how to pace himself. to rest in between punches in bunches.

the pacing plus not losing weight at all before the fight is the reason for the higher punch stats compared to lower weights.

he also gained more mass simply cause every person in this planet does when they become older. plus he is now fighting in higher weights and for his small frame he can bulk up with good muscles.

That's a good way of looking at it mcmn. It could be that, or it could be that roach has tried to make him smarter and pick his punches better. Also I think that at the higher weights if he got as wreckless as he did sometimes in the lower weights there's more chance of gettin sparked as logic says the bigger the guys the bigger the punch. Who really nos for sure tho.

Originally Posted by Ghost

I read most of the threads here (don't comment on most as my post count shows) but why spread the same questions and responses on the same issue out over a half dozen threads or more when 2 would do? Gets a little tiring having to jump all over the place, simply because some one wants to start a new thread with their name as the first poster.

I don't think the issues brought up by paddy448 with regards to the Ped controversy had been raised before. Has it?

Originally Posted by paddy448

First off i apolagise because i no this thread has been done to death so many times already. But here we are yet again.

Ok, the reason I just brought this up again is because obviously its such a hot topic. But the real reason is I've been watching Pacquiaos past dust ups down at the lighter weights against the marquee names such as morales, barrera and marquez. And to be honest to this day i feel hes the same fighter, same style,same tenacity, but just more polished (hence the way he doesnt get as wreckless when he feels he has someone hurt) and of corse this is an improvement, but this is understood because of his work with the seems to be great coach Freddie Roach over time.

Heres where the so called p.e.ds come in. If u look at compubox stats (questionable i no) his punch output in the higher weights (lightweight plus) is higher than his lower weight reign (superfeather and below). And yeah it does seem very strange how a Pacman alot heavier can have higher output than a lowerweight Pacman and even still carry his powerup in weight and even still seem to improve on that power. When people see this (and yes i have been one of them) this cannot be, this man MUST be taking something.

My own personal thoughts on the matter after some research, hence my sister bein a sports nutritionist, and having more insight onto the moving up in weight and carrying the power and speed at the same time and even improving on this are as follows: Pacquiao must have been starving himself at some point during training camp at the lighterweights and it would of to a degree limited his true potential as a fighter. And where hes moved up thru the weights his overall food intake and natural growth has increased his performance as a fighter (hence the greater compubox stats).This is very feasable, but not all fighters are the same in this respect.

In closing this analogy i would like to finish up saying that i really, truly believe we are dealing with a truly special once in a lifetime fighter in Manny Pacquiao.And that im not 100% sure but pretty certain that what this man has done and is continuing to do is biologically feasable, and i do think he is free of any p.e.d.s and all his work is natural and God given.

Once again apolagies too anybody who is sick to death of this topic, i just wanted to give my 2 cents on the matter.

Hey dude, jus my 2cents on the matter...

I actually agree with most of what u say, I do believe Pac is clean. He is just a naturally gifted athlete. And you're rite, this issue has been spoken about on so many occasions because I feel the arguments are on so many different levels.

Pacfans n Pachaters throw out their opinions, other athletes from other sports even have an opinion not just on Pac but boxings drug testing program, the biggest reason I feel this is a debateable topic is because most feel this was the reason the biggest fite in our boxing history didn't take place. Mayweather wanted Pac to do the Olympic style testing, Pac declined, and the fite was off.

As I said earlier, I agree with your analysis especially with ya sis being a nurtionist and all that, BUT the question a lot will ask about the Pac on P.E.Ds issue especially the Pachaters is that Y din Pac just take the test?!?! On pride?!? On principles?!? Coz those were his excuses rite? He pretty much delcined to take the tests coz they were Floyd's demands... I am a Pac fan but boy I wish he did just take the tests.

However there is an old saying "a man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything", and if that is Pac's stance on Floyd demanding the tests then in a way u gota respect that too rite?

So as far as this argument goes we end up back where we started, tossing around theories, opinions, even insults at each other (haha)... But worst of all, we still end up with NO PAC V MAYWEATHER!!!

Mantonio,I believe that it's a princible thing with PAC refusing the drugs test, and I can understand his stance, but it definately raises suspicions. Of corse there is no telling for sure wether PAC is clean or not, but I think he is. I just think he is a born and bread beast. I would love people saying that i must be on p.e.ds, it's a great compliment, ur basically saying that I am that good a fighter that I must be on something.

Said it a thousand times already on here.

Any athlete who isn't struggling to make weight will most likely perform to a higher standard come fight night.

Pacquiao's style is about speed and volume. He can't really be outworked. To beat him, you have to shut down his offence. Only Floyd Mayweather has any chance of doing that. The other option is to knock him out. To do that, you have to either get lucky or force the issue by opening up. If you open up, you could be setting yourself up for disaster. Pacquiao is a very accurate puncher and he can hurt pretty much any fighter if they walk on to a shot (as can most accurate punchers).

He struggled to really hurt Clottey and (to an extent) De La Hoya because they didn't open up on Pacquiao at all really. But against Cotto and Hatton, it was easier for Pacquaio to cause damage because both Hatton and Cotto were at times careless.

He's not actually fighting much heavier than he did when he was down at Super Featherweight. The difference is only about 4lbs come fight night. He's weighing in heavier which is good for him. It means he isn't struggling and it means he will most likely have a more effective camp as he can eat well enough to recover from training sessions.

All there is to it really. Your sister is correct.