Thread: Fu##ing WBC!

I feel sorry for Ryan Rhodes as he gets to the top and the boxing world shits on him, hatton will get squashed against Alvarez and Rhodes would have won the belt in this fight
Pisses me off

Agreed Alvarez v Rhodes would have been much better fight.

JMM is POed about Alvarez getting a title shot so quick.

The latest person on Marquez's hit list is undefeated junior middleweight Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez, who is in line for his first crack at a world title when he goes for the vacant WBC junior middleweight scrap against tough-but-limited Brit Matthew Hatton. Alvarez is a promising talent with an efficient and debilitating attack, yet the 20-year old still has much room to grow. The title become up for grabs after it's champion Manny Pacquiao, who had dominated Antonio Margarito for the belt last November, declared he was going to campaign at 147 pounds or less for his future endeavors.

It took Marquez six and a half years and 31 fights before he was able to vie for his first world title, a disputed decision loss to then-WBA featherweight champion Freddie Norwood at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, and he had to come up the hard way in facing a wide range of capable opposition without much exposure. Garnering somewhat of a cult following along the West Coast in his early years, it is obviously hard for Marquez to see a youngster like Alvarez get such a leisurely shot while still fresh into his career.

"That really sucks," Marquez said. "I am speaking as a fighter and for the fighters that are ranked. They work very hard to get in the rankings and all of a sudden this kid is the number one contender because he has the silver belt? Come on, what about Perro Angulo? What about the English guy who is ranked number 4? What about Vanes? And now you give him Hatton, who isn't even ranked in the super welterweight division. It took me a lot of years to get a title shot that is why I am speaking as a fighter."

Alvarez was granted this opportunity after Oscar De La Hoya, president of Golden Boy Promotions who oversee 'Canelo', approached WBC president Jose Suliaman with a request on behalf of his fighter. Despite there being a wealth of talent in the WBC's top fifteen junior middleweight rankings, Suliaman gave the nod to Hatton, ranked #5 on the WBC's welterweight ladder.

This line of thinking has also ticked off Marquez's trainer Nacho Beristain.

"This is total BS," Beristain unloaded. "Suliaman owns the WBC, everyone knows that, and I am happy to get his opportunity to say this to his face. Why don't you help Angulo get a visa, when you have done it in the past for many fighters. You have the power to do it, this is ridiculous. This kid Canelo has talent but he is too green to get a title shot. He hasn't beaten any contenders yet and Hatton? What has he done? Nothing at all. He is not even a decent fighter."

Giving his take on matters, Suliaman insisted that other ideal candidates were simply not available for such a shot. The 79-year old also took a few parting shots at Marquez, claiming that he was jealous of Alvarez's newfound opportunity and growing fame.

Such theories didn't sit too well with the tried and true champion.

"I don't envy anyone because I am on my way out," Marquez lashed out. "I am a current champion who takes on anyone, and I'm a champion in three weight classes. What can I be jealous of?"

Juan Manuel Marquez disgusted that 'kid' Saul Alvarez is getting WBC title shot - Las Vegas boxing | Examiner.com

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

To be fair the matchup was made first, it was only after the fight was made that the WBC let it be for a title shot.

People have got it about face, if they are thinking Alvarez got the title shot arranged first, and then handpicked an opponent.

The matchup was already made.

Saul could be a good fighter. But IMO, is should be fighting top ten guys before getting a shot at the title. It's other that deserve a shot before he does. Not to mention, before Hatton do.
BTW, Saul challenge JMM after this fight. I hope JMM don't dumb up and accept this challenge. JMM was said to be to small for Mayweather at 147, in which I'm of the opinion that Mayweather's skill was just superior more then size. But 154, JMM will get KO'ed and retired against Alvarez. At that size, the skill set of JMM could end with one punch.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

To be fair the matchup was made first, it was only after the fight was made that the WBC let it be for a title shot.

People have got it about face, if they are thinking Alvarez got the title shot arranged first, and then handpicked an opponent.

The matchup was already made.

that is the point it should not be for the title.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

To be fair the matchup was made first, it was only after the fight was made that the WBC let it be for a title shot.

People have got it about face, if they are thinking Alvarez got the title shot arranged first, and then handpicked an opponent.

The matchup was already made.

Thats even worse really. Sounds like one hand washing the other between Oscar and Arum. Its a parlor trick to me but then again they have always played musical chairs with the rankings. In an ideal world....reality....#1 and #2 should meet for vacant strap.

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

To be fair the matchup was made first, it was only after the fight was made that the WBC let it be for a title shot.

People have got it about face, if they are thinking Alvarez got the title shot arranged first, and then handpicked an opponent.

The matchup was already made.

Thats even worse really. Sounds like one hand washing the other between Oscar and Arum. Its a parlor trick to me but then again they have always played musical chairs with the rankings. In an ideal world....reality....#1 and #2 should meet for vacant strap.

Well the thing is boxing isn't like other sports that have organised fixtures and league tables. They sell events. The promoters and world ranking bodies want world champions that they can sell. Alvarez is such a guy. Ryan Rhodes most definitely is not.

Is it fair? Not really, but ultimately the fans are as much to blame as we want to see the glamour fighters fight each other and Alvarez has that star potential. They want to get him a belt so that they can market him on HBO and create hopefully a big star for the future.

I would rather see Alavarez on HBO than Ryan Rhodes any day of the week so as a pragmatist I'm not too bothered.

It might be tough on the others who got excluded but this sport is all about smashing the opposition out of the way so it's quite apt.

Personally I would rather c Ryan Rhodes fight. He isn't as sloppy and unrefined but that's my opinion

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

To be fair the matchup was made first, it was only after the fight was made that the WBC let it be for a title shot.

People have got it about face, if they are thinking Alvarez got the title shot arranged first, and then handpicked an opponent.

The matchup was already made.

Thats even worse really. Sounds like one hand washing the other between Oscar and Arum. Its a parlor trick to me but then again they have always played musical chairs with the rankings. In an ideal world....reality....#1 and #2 should meet for vacant strap.

Well the thing is boxing isn't like other sports that have organised fixtures and league tables. They sell events. The promoters and world ranking bodies want world champions that they can sell. Alvarez is such a guy. Ryan Rhodes most definitely is not.

Is it fair? Not really, but ultimately the fans are as much to blame as we want to see the glamour fighters fight each other and Alvarez has that star potential. They want to get him a belt so that they can market him on HBO and create hopefully a big star for the future.

I would rather see Alavarez on HBO than Ryan Rhodes any day of the week so as a pragmatist I'm not too bothered.

It might be tough on the others who got excluded but this sport is all about smashing the opposition out of the way so it's quite apt.

Your opposition and the visibility they bring goes much further then the notoriety some trinket will bring you. They got Berto a strap in hopes to make a huge star...hasn't translated into huge fights quite yet. He's a preme champion in a state of limbo. HBO promotes fighters looking for stars... not belts. Seeing Alvarez is great...but fighting crap is fighting crap yeh? Fans should call bullshit on this sensationalism at every opportunity, not excuse it. Top vs Top = Champion...otherwise your just a warmer.

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Its one thing to get a shot so early and lightly tested but to also have it seem a literal set up, the fight just a formality (see Berto's trinket win) is another thing. I just dont think it does a fighter anygood and it short changes them when they have to mature on higher championship level. Not to mention it screws other more deserving guys.

To be fair the matchup was made first, it was only after the fight was made that the WBC let it be for a title shot.

People have got it about face, if they are thinking Alvarez got the title shot arranged first, and then handpicked an opponent.

The matchup was already made.

Thats even worse really. Sounds like one hand washing the other between Oscar and Arum. Its a parlor trick to me but then again they have always played musical chairs with the rankings. In an ideal world....reality....#1 and #2 should meet for vacant strap.

Well the thing is boxing isn't like other sports that have organised fixtures and league tables. They sell events. The promoters and world ranking bodies want world champions that they can sell. Alvarez is such a guy. Ryan Rhodes most definitely is not.

Is it fair? Not really, but ultimately the fans are as much to blame as we want to see the glamour fighters fight each other and Alvarez has that star potential. They want to get him a belt so that they can market him on HBO and create hopefully a big star for the future.

I would rather see Alavarez on HBO than Ryan Rhodes any day of the week so as a pragmatist I'm not too bothered.

It might be tough on the others who got excluded but this sport is all about smashing the opposition out of the way so it's quite apt.

Your opposition and the visibility they bring goes much further then the notoriety some trinket will bring you. They got Berto a strap in hopes to make a huge star...hasn't translated into huge fights quite yet. He's a preme champion in a state of limbo. HBO promotes fighters looking for stars... not belts. Seeing Alvarez is great...but fighting crap is fighting crap yeh? Fans should call bullshit on this sensationalism at every opportunity, not excuse it. Top vs Top = Champion...otherwise your just a warmer.

Yeah I agree they need opposition. But you guys are forgetting Alvarez is just a kid not even old enought to drink in the states. The good opposition will come later. Right now they just want to get him noticed, and have a fight to sell. The thing you guys are missing is the television aspect.

The WBC could have been fair and got Ryan Rhodes and somebody else to fight for the title, but then it wouldn't have been on HBO.

HBO want a fight they can sell and Alvarez vs the brother of Ricky Hatton, and a European champ on a 10 fight unbeaten run sells, whereas Alvarez vs a completely unknown Brit doesn't, no matter if we know it's probably the better fight.

All Goldenboy and HBO want is to put Alvarez in with a credible name, with an angle they can use to sell the fight, and with the type of opponent Alvarez can hopefully look good against. Him fighting the brother of by far the best known British light welter worldwide for years is a decent angle, and he will likely look good in knocking him out, which is what they want.

Yes it's discrimination, but there are far worse kinds in the world. Boxing fights are events, and are as much to do with popularity as anything else.

Hopefully Alvarez puts on a show, looks good and then defends his catchweight won vacant strap against J M Marquez.

The problem is that everyone is powerless to stop it and the fighters involved certainly aren't going to turn away a world title shot.

They've essentially turned that title into a Mickey Mouse one with the two most recent fights. The Pac fight was a joke and so is this one. Rankings mean nothing.

The only way to stop it is through the fighters, us fans will watch anything for the chance of a good scrap. Fighters would need to boycott organisations and make their titles worthless.

Originally Posted by 0james0

The problem is that everyone is powerless to stop it and the fighters involved certainly aren't going to turn away a world title shot.

They've essentially turned that title into a Mickey Mouse one with the two most recent fights. The Pac fight was a joke and so is this one. Rankings mean nothing.

The only way to stop it is through the fighters, us fans will watch anything for the chance of a good scrap. Fighters would need to boycott organisations and make their titles worthless.

There are four titles per weight class, rankings do mean nothing.

You can argue about fairness, but from a purely pragmatic standpoint, it's better to have a potential glamour boy and future star holding a belt than a mid 30's mediocre Brit with no future.

The light middleweight division is devoid of any exciting champions right now and so I guess they are manouvering to try and get one established.

One of the ironies however is that most people would agree Alvarez is a far better prospect, and a better potential world champion than Ryan Rhodes and some of the other contenders.

You are in effect claiming that the belts would be more credible if worse fighters got their shots.

I've never understood this. All those who clamoured against Manny and Margarito, two of the most established fighters today, fighting for a world title saying they weren't worthy.

Well if you go by rankings you will have guys like Ryan Rhodes and K9 Bundrage as world champs.

How that gives more credibility and integrity to the sport is completely beyond me

The Networks should be called on just as the alphabet boyz. They attach a meaningless belt to a terrible match up and call it championship worthy. I dont exactly have a huge problem with Alvarez fighting for the belt.....its hatton as an opponent and fact that he's leapfrogging much more serious contenders to get there on the premier network. HBO has aired trinket mismatches alll the time.

Berto fought and 'earned' the WBC welter trinket vs undeserving Micky Rodriquez....aired on HBO.
Three obscure fights and three years prior the same Rodriquez lost vs Baldo....for the very same WBC belt.

Shit Think my bigger problem is this being a main event on HBO then a set up for Alvarez. I mean we already know the belts dont mean crap.