Thread: "To Hit and Not Be Hit Boxers" - Steve Kim

Steve Kim from maxboxing.com went on twitter after the Abraham/Ward fight being ciritical of Ward's style of boxing describing it as "boring." Here are a few comments he made:

"Casino ballrooms and arenas all over the country are filled with fans dressed up as empty seats who love 'skills.' "

"no contradictions, bottome line, skill is another word for saying boring."

"so next time i hear booing, i will stand up and state to everyone, please you savages, do you not enjoy this skill?"

"met a lot of fans last night, and not one of them said, 'damn that was a skillfull.' most were underwhelmed."

"I'm convinced that fans who say they enjoy 'skills' are the ones who usually don't go to any fights or its just another way of saying they like certain fighters that aren't exciting."

"Because the bottom line is when I meet fans at fights I never hear,'Wow, what an exhibition of feinting and slipping"

"Skill is a euhpamism for boring."

It boils down to the fact that defensive fighting is boring to watch and doesn't appeal to most fans and the fans that do like defensive fighting, don't buy tickets to go to fights.

Steve Kim from maxboxing.com went on twitter after the Abraham/Ward fight being ciritical of Ward's style of boxing describing it as "boring." Here are a few comments he made:

"Casino ballrooms and arenas all over the country are filled with fans dressed up as empty seats who love 'skills.' "

"no contradictions, bottome line, skill is another word for saying boring."

"so next time i hear booing, i will stand up and state to everyone, please you savages, do you not enjoy this skill?"

"met a lot of fans last night, and not one of them said, 'damn that was a skillfull.' most were underwhelmed."

"I'm convinced that fans who say they enjoy 'skills' are the ones who usually don't go to any fights or its just another way of saying they like certain fighters that aren't exciting."

"Because the bottom line is when I meet fans at fights I never hear,'Wow, what an exhibition of feinting and slipping"

"Skill is a euhpamism for boring."

His point is that defensive fighting is boring to watch and doesn't appeal to most fans and the fans that do like defensive fighting, don't buy tickets to go to fights. It is a controversial viewpoint. What do people think?

defensive fighters arent as exciting as brawlers in general

but brawlers have to have a certain level of skill to be entertaining to watch

and being skillful doesnt necessarily mean defensive

He is 100% right. Only hardcore fans are thrilled by a great display of skill. And most of those ponce streams, they don't even buy PPVs let alone attend the fight.

The general fan wants toe-to-toe action and or a KO.

This is why promotion is so important. Using Hopkin's as an example - he consistently creates aggro at press conferences. He knows he is basically a boring fighter. But if he chins Winky/Tito/Joppy/Cazlaghe etc BEFORE the fight it gets people to watch. Now it doesn't matter how boring he makes the fight - his job is done.

There are lots of "great" fighters that have never been in a memorable great fight.

Originally Posted by Fenster

He is 100% right. Only hardcore fans are thrilled by a great display of skill. And most of those ponce streams, they don't even buy PPVs let alone attend the fight.

The general fan wants toe-to-toe action and or a KO.

This is why promotion is so important. Using Hopkin's as an example - he consistently creates aggro at press conferences. He knows he is basically a boring fighter. But if he chins Winky/Tito/Joppy/Cazlaghe etc BEFORE the fight it gets people to watch. Now it doesn't matter how boring he makes the fight - his job is done.

There are lots of "great" fighters that have never been in a memorable great fight.

That actually could be the subject of a great thread. I agree though to an extent. Defensive fighters can be entertaining, but you are right it is more often than not, they aren't.

Statisticly Floyd jr and Roy jr share a record of going an entire round without being hit once according to wikipedia
Now that takes skill which is the same as natural ability

The thing is thou, i do fins ward a little boring, i don't like how he fights because he is not impressive, guys like floyd on the otter hand, fight elusive, but it looks amazing, and you can see his mind at work with every move he makes, not that i enjoy

Originally Posted by Boxer4life

The thing is thou, i do fins ward a little boring, i don't like how he fights because he is not impressive, guys like floyd on the otter hand, fight elusive, but it looks amazing, and you can see his mind at work with every move he makes, not that i enjoy

see with me i luv watching floyd jr becos he knows hes the best at what he does, i honestly dont blame him for not fighting pac man, he doesnt need pac man although i reckon floyd would spread him accross the ring like butter!! pac man is good but all i see is a one trick pony, i mean could people honestly think floyd is silly enough to fall for the way manny fights

They can't all be Manny. Wait he got booed too. Maybe we're just spoiled. Their is a fine line with guys who gain total domination but ride the lead opposed to those who accelerate it.

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Originally Posted by Dropanuke

Originally Posted by Boxer4life

The thing is thou, i do fins ward a little boring, i don't like how he fights because he is not impressive, guys like floyd on the otter hand, fight elusive, but it looks amazing, and you can see his mind at work with every move he makes, not that i enjoy

see with me i luv watching floyd jr becos he knows hes the best at what he does, i honestly dont blame him for not fighting pac man, he doesnt need pac man although i reckon floyd would spread him accross the ring like butter!! pac man is good but all i see is a one trick pony, i mean could people honestly think floyd is silly enough to fall for the way manny fights

i think everyone including pac fans know floyd will win, but he is the biggest threat by far compared to anyone, which is why we wanna see it, i personally love floyd and manny, and i think it would be a hellva fight

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Steve Kim's point as I understand it was that those same people that appreciate Andre Ward's defensive style don't buy tickets and don't financially support the sport. As much as you may not want to admit it, the Saul Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao's are great for boxing because they put people in seats and keep the sport at least somewhat relevant.

Also, I'm sure defensive doesn't have to mean boring. Marble - can you name defensive fighters of yesteryear that were able to hype the crowd?

And Fenster made a good point, there are plenty of defensive fighters that have never been in a memorable fight. Perhaps, great fighters too.

What Kim said is true. Hell even Dibella said boxing nerds don't buy fights or help pay the bills, it's the casual fans more so than the hardcores that do. They are the ones attending fights and buying the PPVs.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

I think more people line up to see car wrecks than to see good driving.

I couldn't care less what most people do.

Ward is efficient and effective as hell. People who believe themselves to be dedicated boxing fans and yet cannot appreciate it need to do a better job of understanding boxing and what they are seeing.

The worship of men like Arturo Gatti sets the sport back in my view.

Steve Kim's point as I understand it was that those same people that appreciate Andre Ward's defensive style don't buy tickets and don't financially support the sport. As much as you may not want to admit it, the Saul Alvarez and Manny Pacquiao's are great for boxing because they put people in seats and keep the sport at least somewhat relevant.
Also, I'm sure defensive doesn't have to mean boring. Marble - can you name defensive fighters of yesteryear that were able to hype the crowd?

And Fenster made a good point, there are plenty of defensive fighters that have never been in a memorable fight. Perhaps, great fighters too.

I admit the bold. Grudgingly and with teeth grinding. Dumbing down the sport to the lowest common denominator is a weak second choice to educating the fans to what they are seeing [grumble, grumble]

Sweet Pea sure shut up the Alamodome against Chavez! Pep had the Garden rocking against Saddler in their second fight. Benny Leonard drew 70,000 several times. Niclino Locche would have people calling his name and cheering when he made the other guy miss. It was like a bullfight. Muhammad Ali's defining characterstics were his moving and not getting hit. He was the biggest name in history.

I also think Fenster is just wrong about great defensive fighters never being in a memorable fight. I'd LOVE to see that list!

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

What Kim said is true. Hell even Dibella said boxing nerds don't buy fights or help pay the bills, it's the casual fans more so than the hardcores that do. They are the ones attending fights and buying the PPVs.

Not like a major promoter is agenda driven . I wonder if DiBella has ever driven down to the cable company in the middle of the night and pay his cable bill with rolled dimes to watch Fenech vs Nelson 2 ha. At $60 a pop ppv, God knows how much for quality tickets and padded paper thin undercards the promoters should assume some responsibility as to why some nerds stick to the sofa also.