Thread: A few respected opinions on the phantom punch. MUST SEE :)

Apologies if this has been posted before, I came across it when doing my usual trawl through you tube looking for boxing i haven't seen. I'm sure if you havent seen it you will find this interesting i did. Not exactly in depth but i do like to see interviews from the old time boxers as usually only get to see black and white footage of their fights good to see them outside the ring too.

loved watching that... greats discussing a great.

not so sure about the advert with guys smoking a PRINCE ALBERT

Originally Posted by armyash

Apologies if this has been posted before, I came across it when doing my usual trawl through you tube looking for boxing i haven't seen. I'm sure if you havent seen it you will find this interesting i did. Not exactly in depth but i do like to see interviews from the old time boxers as usually only get to see black and white footage of their fights good to see them outside the ring too.

the proof is in the puffing

A couple of relevant videos:

I couldn't quite understand the stoppage and they didn't explain it really well. It looked like the ref. was counting but I'm not sure because when Liston was up and ready the refs head was turned away from the fighters as if he was listening to someone else in the other corner and didn't really say go but just left them and when they started back fighting. The ref then came back in and said the fight was over. But it could also have been he was stopping the fight because Liston was starting to get blasted but then it looked premature. So I'm wondering if he was actually counted out?

Originally Posted by fan johnny

I couldn't quite understand the stoppage and they didn't explain it really well. It looked like the ref. was counting but I'm not sure because when Liston was up and ready the refs head was turned away from the fighters as if he was listening to someone else in the other corner and didn't really say go but just left them and when they started back fighting. The ref then came back in and said the fight was over. But it could also have been he was stopping the fight because Liston was starting to get blasted but then it looked premature. So I'm wondering if he was actually counted out?

Jersey Joe Walcott was the ref for this too

Wow, that's some rare footage, it was nice to hear what Dempsey and Marciano had to say, Rocky looked like he was carrying some extra weight.

BTW, I agree with the first guy had to say, the so-called phantom punch "couldn't crush a grape", and IMO, Liston either quit or took a dive.

Originally Posted by fan johnny

I couldn't quite understand the stoppage and they didn't explain it really well. It looked like the ref. was counting but I'm not sure because when Liston was up and ready the refs head was turned away from the fighters as if he was listening to someone else in the other corner and didn't really say go but just left them and when they started back fighting. The ref then came back in and said the fight was over. But it could also have been he was stopping the fight because Liston was starting to get blasted but then it looked premature. So I'm wondering if he was actually counted out?

He got counted out. Because Ali was running around the ring Walcott didn't begin the count straight away as he was trying to get Ali to the neutral corner. I don't even think Walcott started a count as by the time he was ready Liston was up.

The official timekeeper at ringside had already counted up to about 14 by the time Liston got up, so when Walcott went off after wiping Liston's gloves it was because someone had gotten his attention to tell him Liston had been counted out. At least that's how I've always seen it described whenever I've read about it

Thanks for posting that video armyash, that's the first time I've heard Marciano and Dempsey speak. Very interesting to see.

Originally Posted by Cressa121

Originally Posted by fan johnny

I couldn't quite understand the stoppage and they didn't explain it really well. It looked like the ref. was counting but I'm not sure because when Liston was up and ready the refs head was turned away from the fighters as if he was listening to someone else in the other corner and didn't really say go but just left them and when they started back fighting. The ref then came back in and said the fight was over. But it could also have been he was stopping the fight because Liston was starting to get blasted but then it looked premature. So I'm wondering if he was actually counted out?

He got counted out. Because Ali was running around the ring Walcott didn't begin the count straight away as he was trying to get Ali to the neutral corner. I don't even think Walcott started a count as by the time he was ready Liston was up.

The official timekeeper at ringside had already counted up to about 14 by the time Liston got up, so when Walcott went off after wiping Liston's gloves it was because someone had gotten his attention to tell him Liston had been counted out. At least that's how I've always seen it described whenever I've read about it

Thanks for posting that video armyash, that's the first time I've heard Marciano and Dempsey speak. Very interesting to see.

No worries! i think i may have heard Marciano speak before but it was commentary over his fight footage where you dont get to see him so never know if it's actually him speaking or not. Definitely the first time i have heard Dempsey speak and i was surprised how clear he sounded everything i have heard about him makes him out to be a street urchin with no education and not able to string a few words together but he had a bit about him which was good to see.

strange seeing Dempsey sat in a suit on a tv show compared to seeing his grainy looking fight films from the 1920's

The advert was brilliant!

Interesting stuff, great to see the greats talking about their peers.

I can believe Liston got KO'ed legitimately.

I've seen Roy Jones jr in his prime rocking opponents with punches appearing to have no leverage whatsoever, that look like a mere flick of the wrist. But the sheer speed, angle, and invisibility of the punch magnifies its power.

A hook to the head, particularly one the opponent doesn't see coming, has the best chance of turning the skull while the brain remains in the same position. This produces a momentary blackout and a KO can easily ensue. It looks odd because the punch does not appear hard. Maybe the victim took heavier straight punches so one assumes a KO from the lighter punch must be suspicious. But the light punch was perfectly placed, like getting the good wood on the ball in baseball. I can easily believe that happened here.

The video was great b/c its easy to forget the pre-vietnam-draft Ali. In the early part of the round he really looked like RJJ, leaping in with unorthodox punches in an effort to try to catch Liston cold. I think he was going for the 1-punch KO, despite fighting backwards. Considering his speed is magnified over similar-styled fighters (RJJ, Prince Naseem, Nunn) by virtue of fighting heavyweights not used to such sudden acceleration, its not to hard to believe the phantom punch was for real.

Great footage.
Thats the first time I've seen Marciano in civvies.
Gotta say, when you're born with a head like that, you have to be a HW fighter. It looks like it was chiselled from granite.

Cassius Clay was 1 of those freaky boxers that could on accasion with the right angle and torque and leverage have surpising power. If you see the way Liston's head snapped on the slow motion video, it first snaps one way then seems to snap inwards and downwards, its because of the strange way Ali threw that ANCHOR punch as he liked to call it. What a strange angle it came in with, its not an overhand right like Earnie Shavers would throw, and its no sidewinder or even hook nor right cross, its a chopping kind of shoulder punch, I wouldnt say arm punch, and Ali sprung with his right calf really sharply from the floor, may have twisted his hips sharply at about the moment of impact which really ratcheted up the torque, the punch really came from the right calf, watch Ali's calf. This is a phenomenal athlete in his prime, and anything is possible.

Nice find!

I always thought Ali's punch was pretty hard. It lifted Liston's front foot off the canvas when it landed. But the eveything that happened once Liston went down was, ahem, very strange.

I believe it was a legitimate punch but Sonny wanted to carry on but Nat told Jersey that he should stop the fight because he was down for 10. I wish Nat wa around when Tyson knocked down Douglas in the 8th.