Thread: Is Zab Judah an Elite fighter ?

I feel petty making this thread but i feel i have to get a point across.

So simply question......

Is Zab Judah elite ?

Yes or No ?

Not trying to be a douche, but can you tell me what "elite" means?

Championship caliber today? Then that'd be yes.

Among the Best of today? Probably no.

Comparable to best we've ever seen? No.

Comparable to best there has ever been? No.

As i said in other thread skillfuly he is elite, not mentally though.

I took elite to mean a current world class performer and legitimate player in the division he currently fights in and therefore voted yes.

Former undisputed, unified welterweight champ, current light welter weight belt holder, multiple times world champion, fought the absolute best at world level including at least 3 Hall of Famers in Tsyzu, Mayweather and Cotto and one of the most high smaller weight fighters of the last 10 years or so.

Not IMO lost all the big fights he has been in , lacks mental strenght when the shit hits the fan.

By my definition of elite he's not now and he never has been.

Originally Posted by LukeH

By my definition of elite he's not now and he never has been.

What does Elite mean to you?

Bilbo has already answered for me.

To me it's clear that us fans all seem to have different opinions on what elite is.

An elite fighter to me is one of the best in the business.

Pacquiao, Mayweather, Martinez, Marquez, etc to me are "elite" fighters.

Judah's not up there with them, never was.

Obviously other fans think that being world class means your elite, don't think i can agree with it though.

Ricky Hatton was world class who won world title in multiple divisions, etc but came up short against two "elite" fighters. World class operator yes....but elite no.

I guess it's your opinion on it though, keep voting folks.

Originally Posted by ICB

As i said in other thread skillfuly he is elite, not mentally though.

Overall is he an elite fighter to you ?

His best win is over Cory Spinks.

He has lost to Mayweather, Tsyzu, Cotto, Clottey, Spinks, Baldomir.

Don't see how that can be elite imo.

Originally Posted by Pugilistic

To me it's clear that us fans all seem to have different opinions on what elite is.

An elite fighter to me is one of the best in the business.

Pacquiao, Mayweather, Martinez, Marquez, etc to me are "elite" fighters.

Judah's not up there with them, never was.

Obviously other fans think that being world class means your elite, don't think i can agree with it though.

Ricky Hatton was world class who won world title in multiple divisions, etc but came up short against two "elite" fighters. World class operator yes....but elite no.

I guess it's your opinion on it though, keep voting folks.

Your definition of elite is more a definition of all time great imo.

Floyd, Manny, Marquez will be first ballot Hall of Famers and are some of the very best fighters of our generation. The jury is still out on Martinez.

Elite to me means the very best , really dont think Judah comes into that class do you , good fighter but elite come on , got his butt creamed by every elite man he faced.

Originally Posted by Memphis

Originally Posted by LukeH

By my definition of elite he's not now and he never has been.

What does Elite mean to you?

Bilbo has already answered for me.

I pretty much agree with Pugilistic.

Right now Mayweather and Pac, maybe Martinez,Marquez and Bhop. Someone like Donaire will probably get there with more top drawer opposition.

If I had to put boxers in tiers id have Mayweather and Pac in a group at the top by themselves. To me they are elite and easily the best two boxers in the sport.
As i said in another thread, if we are to use words like elite, world class etc, there should be a unified defintion of it everyone can go by. As it is everyone has different opinions,

Originally Posted by Bilbo

I took elite to mean a current world class performer and legitimate player in the division he currently fights in and therefore voted yes.

Former undisputed, unified welterweight champ, current light welter weight belt holder, multiple times world champion, fought the absolute best at world level including at least 3 Hall of Famers in Tsyzu, Mayweather and Cotto and one of the most high smaller weight fighters of the last 10 years or so.

Does that make Glen Johnson elite then ?

I mean he fought most of the best fighters from Middleweight (Hopkins) to Light Heavyweight (Jones). He won titles at light heavyweight, was even the man at light heavyweight for short time. Lost alot more against the best than he won though.

Zab fought the best fighters no doubt but he never beat them. I don't see how fighting those guys make him elite.

Originally Posted by Bilbo

Originally Posted by Pugilistic

To me it's clear that us fans all seem to have different opinions on what elite is.

An elite fighter to me is one of the best in the business.

Pacquiao, Mayweather, Martinez, Marquez, etc to me are "elite" fighters.

Judah's not up there with them, never was.

Obviously other fans think that being world class means your elite, don't think i can agree with it though.

Ricky Hatton was world class who won world title in multiple divisions, etc but came up short against two "elite" fighters. World class operator yes....but elite no.

I guess it's your opinion on it though, keep voting folks.

Your definition of elite is more a definition of all time great imo.

Floyd, Manny, Marquez will be first ballot Hall of Famers and are some of the very best fighters of our generation. The jury is still out on Martinez.

When i rate fighters as elite, i rate them highly no doubt.

Originally Posted by LukeH

Originally Posted by Memphis

Originally Posted by LukeH

By my definition of elite he's not now and he never has been.

What does Elite mean to you?

Bilbo has already answered for me.

I pretty much agree with Pugilistic.

Right now Mayweather and Pac, maybe Martinez,Marquez and Bhop. Someone like Donaire will probably get there with more top drawer opposition.

If I had to put boxers in tiers id have Mayweather and Pac in a group at the top by themselves. To me they are elite and easily the best two boxers in the sport.
As i said in another thread, if we are to use words like elite, world class etc, there should be a unified defintion of it everyone can go by. As it is everyone has different opinions,

Whilst I cant disagree with your logic I would just like to applaud you for the use of 'top drawer'

Many people on here say top draw, annoys the fuck out of me