Thread: The Death of Boxing?

Two recent football developments have got me scared to death for my beloved sport of boxing.

1. In the Ivy League new rules are being instituted that place strict limitations on the number of contact and full pad practices both in pre-season and during the season. Now all the rules really do is codify current practices anyway. I don't know of any college team that hits more than twice a week in season or who goes full pads for more than one of the two regular pre-season practices. Here's the problem. The reason for this codification is to prevent head injuries by limiting collisions. I think it is of critical import that it is the Ivy League that is doing this. Why? Because it is the Ivy Leaguers who are disproportionately opinion makers, politico's etc. They have outsized influence and if they have this kind of focus on protecting athletes from head trauma? What's next?

Ivy League football limits full-contact practices to reduce brain injury — NewsWorks

2. In the yet to be signed National Football League Labor Agreement, they will be limited to one a day pre-season practices to limit injuries. At the same time a group of 75 ex players is suing the league claiming they withheld knowledge of head injuries since the 1920's. And last year, as we all know, a new level of attention was paid to head shots by the league, conceding something had to be done.

NFL.com news: Blank 'optimistic' owners will approve labor deal Thursday

Here's the problem? If the ex-players can successfully sue the NFL for compensation? The ballgame is over. I mean what then prevents fighters from successfully suing promoters for their injuries? How many suits would it take to drive Arum, King, Golden Boy and every other promoter from the sport? Not very many. And even if those suits do not win? Doesn't it feel like with everything above we are moving towards a society where violence to the head will be considered criminal in any context other than self-defense and civilly liable as well?

If that happens? How long is it before my beloved sport is targeted and destroyed either financially or by legislation?

Geeze I hope I'm being paranoid.

Well to be honest boxing as a sport hasn't changed much. Football on the other hand, has. Look at the equipment, the size of the players, the speed and strength of the players.
The main point of focus that shows the difference is equipment and style of play. Once again boxing: same as it ever was maybe safer. What are you going to change but the rules (unlikely), gloves, boots, and mouthpieces? Football: more passing, higher impact, and equipment that allows the body to cross pain thresholds it shouldn't. The forward pass was invented to make football safer...it hasn't. It creates 2 vulnerable players the QB and sometimes WR that can be hung out to dry at times. The kickoff and kick return are STILL extremely dangerous and very frightening injuries happen during those. The advances in equipment have done nothing but make players feel invincible and make the game faster...bad combination.

I know I played football and its not a contact sport anymore...its a collision sport.

But then compare that to rugby, same advancements as American Football in terms of players being bigger, faster and stronger. But those guys wear no padding at all.

I'm not trying to start a "my sport is harder than your sport" debate. But the pro rugby players train daily still and there would be no way they could sue for injuries.

That would be like a football/ soccer defender suing the league because all of the headers have caused brain damage. Injuries are part of the sport and I'm pretty sure there are enough disclaimers around to keep everyone happy.

As Ivan Drago might say, "If it dies, it dies."

Originally Posted by 0james0

But then compare that to rugby, same advancements as American Football in terms of players being bigger, faster and stronger. But those guys wear no padding at all.

I'm not trying to start a "my sport is harder than your sport" debate. But the pro rugby players train daily still and there would be no way they could sue for injuries.

That would be like a football/ soccer defender suing the league because all of the headers have caused brain damage. Injuries are part of the sport and I'm pretty sure there are enough disclaimers around to keep everyone happy.

Sorry but you don't understand, the pads make football MORE dangerous than rugby. If you can hit harder and not "feel" it then you push the envelope and that is what has happened.

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

As Ivan Drago might say, "If it dies, it dies."

lol


Those were chilling words & we sure knew he was a bad guy then!

I don't want to get into a Rugby is harder conversation either but take a look at these -

Just examples, nothing especially out of the ordinary -

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by 0james0

But then compare that to rugby, same advancements as American Football in terms of players being bigger, faster and stronger. But those guys wear no padding at all.

I'm not trying to start a "my sport is harder than your sport" debate. But the pro rugby players train daily still and there would be no way they could sue for injuries.

That would be like a football/ soccer defender suing the league because all of the headers have caused brain damage. Injuries are part of the sport and I'm pretty sure there are enough disclaimers around to keep everyone happy.

Sorry but you don't understand, the pads make football MORE dangerous than rugby. If you can hit harder and not "feel" it then you push the envelope and that is what has happened.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't fully understand the effects pads have. But I would like to think that the pro players hit as hard as they possibly can in as many tackles as they can. In either sport.

It's a contact sport, your gonna get hurt.

Tackling USED to mean dragging a player to the ground. Now its a massive collision usually with 1 running at full speed and when you tackle you are taught to run through your opponent...in rugby there's less of a collision for the most part especially when you factor in kickoffs and the forward pass.

I used to crackback on guys all the time which is the art (yes its an art form) where you hit someone who never sees you coming. You've got to have great peripheral vision and talent to dish those out and not receive them...bone crushing hits, I loved them!

Yeah just to chime in on the which is more dangerous debate, it's the NFL without any question at all. Ryanman those clips you posted just cement this completely. They are huge tackles, but clean ones, done with finesse. Go watch some big hits in the NFL, it's absolutely nuts the way those guys drill each other. If they weren't wearing so much padding it would be absolutely unthinkable to "tackle" somebody like that, guys would be lucky to only shatter their collarbones. Not to mention they are on average considerably bigger guys in the first place. I'm not a fan of either sport but I'd much rather watch Rugby for what it's worth, however if you look at the statistics in the NFL the injuries those guys endure and suffer from later in life is really frightening. The average life expectancy of a pro Linebacker in the NFL is something like 50, no joke.

On an individual basis I don't think there is any reason for alarm. I think boxing pales in comparison to a franchise label like the NFL and certainly doesn't have Union nor the organization. Fighters suing promoters is nothing new and in some cases they are completely in the right. The individual responsibility- focus is more clear and I just don't see many fighters having the means to match the hierarchy. I wince when Vivian Harris climbs through the ropes but where does his responsiblity lie for doing so, and who is sued, the promoters or the actual State commission who have deemed in fit to fight?

Originally Posted by 0james0

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by 0james0

But then compare that to rugby, same advancements as American Football in terms of players being bigger, faster and stronger. But those guys wear no padding at all.

I'm not trying to start a "my sport is harder than your sport" debate. But the pro rugby players train daily still and there would be no way they could sue for injuries.

That would be like a football/ soccer defender suing the league because all of the headers have caused brain damage. Injuries are part of the sport and I'm pretty sure there are enough disclaimers around to keep everyone happy.

Sorry but you don't understand, the pads make football MORE dangerous than rugby. If you can hit harder and not "feel" it then you push the envelope and that is what has happened.

I'm not gonna lie, I don't fully understand the effects pads have. But I would like to think that the pro players hit as hard as they possibly can in as many tackles as they can. In either sport.

It's a contact sport, your gonna get hurt.

Calling them "pads" gives the wrong impression. They are weapons. You can use techniques you simply cannot use without pads because you'd end up with a fractured skull, broken collarbone etc. he first time you tried them without pads.

Originally Posted by Spicoli

On an individual basis I don't think there is any reason for alarm. I think boxing pales in comparison to a franchise label like the NFL and certainly doesn't have Union nor the organization. Fighters suing promoters is nothing new and in some cases they are completely in the right. The individual responsibility- focus is more clear and I just don't see many fighters having the means to match the hierarchy. I wince when Vivian Harris climbs through the ropes but where does his responsiblity lie for doing so, and who is sued, the promoters or the actual State commission who have deemed in fit to fight?

I sure hope you're right!

I loved playing football, but I hate what its done to my body. I'm just 28 and I've had a separated shoulder (one two occasions, same shoulder..injured it a 3rd time playing lacrosse), dislocated numerous fingers, a mild heat stroke, "over training" and from hitting the way I did and lifting all the weights I had to lift to prepare myself for games I suffered a partially slipped disc in my back. I never lost consciousness from a hit (football or otherwise), I've never been diagnosed with a concussion, but I do wonder if I've had one (I mean I've been hit in the head any number of times....FLUSH). I have suffered from bouts of depression, perhaps from getting hit in the head, I don't know. Just know this...I was a very good player in high school, and there were any number of players that took more knocks than me and I've suffered pretty bad as far as I'm concerned.

I've thought that if I have kids I might not let them play football...and that's big coming from me, I'm usually Mr. Manifest Destiny, but its a dangerous sport...most dangerous one I've played and in lacrosse they gave me a 6 foot metal pole and allowed me to hit people with it, and of course I boxed a bit.

I still can't see how it is more dangerous than rugby. I posed rugby quite a bit and US footy a little and loved the fact I had pads on. Made me feel safe!

I can't stop comparing it in my head like pro boxing and amateur boxing with head guards and bigger gloves!