Originally Posted by blueheart

Jones cant stand

Jones carnt stand what? Peanuts ? being lied too ? Dont get what ya trying to say here buddy.

As for Chuck, yea his TD defence was fantastic, and he had the 1 punch KO power, I would just fear Jones wouldnt let him in close enough to land that big shot, keeping him on the outside with the leg kicks to set up his own attack.

The division needs to Jones to fight either Rashad or Davis if he beats Evans. Once thats done then we can truly say he is the undisputed LHW champ.

Hendo may get a mentionn, but im still undecided if he would rather go to MW and look for a rematch with Silva.

Originally Posted by Mattyhitman

Originally Posted by blueheart

Jones cant stand

Jones carnt stand what? Peanuts ? being lied too ? Dont get what ya trying to say here buddy.

As for Chuck, yea his TD defence was fantastic, and he had the 1 punch KO power, I would just fear Jones wouldnt let him in close enough to land that big shot, keeping him on the outside with the leg kicks to set up his own attack.

The division needs to Jones to fight either Rashad or Davis if he beats Evans. Once thats done then we can truly say he is the undisputed LHW champ.

Hendo may get a mentionn, but im still undecided if he would rather go to MW and look for a rematch with Silva.

At this stage in his career why bother cutting all that weight when its more comfortable just to fight at 205. He wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Mattyhitman

Originally Posted by blueheart

Jones cant stand

Jones carnt stand what? Peanuts ? being lied too ? Dont get what ya trying to say here buddy.

As for Chuck, yea his TD defence was fantastic, and he had the 1 punch KO power, I would just fear Jones wouldnt let him in close enough to land that big shot, keeping him on the outside with the leg kicks to set up his own attack.

The division needs to Jones to fight either Rashad or Davis if he beats Evans. Once thats done then we can truly say he is the undisputed LHW champ.

Hendo may get a mentionn, but im still undecided if he would rather go to MW and look for a rematch with Silva.

The leg kicks are a legit tool against Chuck. Jardine used them very well in his win. That fight really frustrated me. Chuck was never a technician as a striker but he clearly went into that fight with one plan to just wing hay makers and never even attempted to adjust. Chuck never had great hand speed but he did have good timing and his looping style often resulted in him hitting fighters at unexpected angles. I think Chuck's chin was starting to fade when he face Rampage but it was interesting that Rampage moved forward but waited for Chuck to fire first then countered. A good tactic that for the brief time of the fight looked to make Chuck uncomfortable. Like I said I think Jones is too versatile and smart to lose to Chuck but I don't think he would be able to keep him down and wouldn't be able to finish a prime Chuck till late in the fight. In doing so he'd take some damage. Would have been fun to watch.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Yea John got caught for the first time on a long time during that fight but Machida never had a chance in my eyes.
The key to defeating this guy is KICKING THOSE GOD DANM TOOTHPICK THIGHS OF HIS!!!

am I right?
or take his ass down and sit on him, pound him with elbows like Florian does. Nobody is gonna take this guy out on his feet. I dont think even Chuck in his prime could beat him. He needs to face a divine wrestler
and Rashad is a perfect match.

A Prime Chuck would be an interesting opponent. Jones represents an evolution of MMA fighters well past Chuck but Chuck had fantastic TD defense, one punch KO power and the ability to take a punch to land a punch. I think Jones is too versatile to lose to Chuck but I believe the Ice Man would have been able to take Jon much deeper and challenge him much more than anyone he has faced so far.

Good point but I dont think a fight between the two would last very long. Regardless of how great Chuck was in his Prime he doesn't have the hardest chin. Jones is far to technical for the crazy overhand rights of Chuck

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Yea John got caught for the first time on a long time during that fight but Machida never had a chance in my eyes.
The key to defeating this guy is KICKING THOSE GOD DANM TOOTHPICK THIGHS OF HIS!!!

am I right?
or take his ass down and sit on him, pound him with elbows like Florian does. Nobody is gonna take this guy out on his feet. I dont think even Chuck in his prime could beat him. He needs to face a divine wrestler
and Rashad is a perfect match.

A Prime Chuck would be an interesting opponent. Jones represents an evolution of MMA fighters well past Chuck but Chuck had fantastic TD defense, one punch KO power and the ability to take a punch to land a punch. I think Jones is too versatile to lose to Chuck but I believe the Ice Man would have been able to take Jon much deeper and challenge him much more than anyone he has faced so far.

Good point but I dont think a fight between the two would last very long. Regardless of how great Chuck was in his Prime he doesn't have the hardest chin. Jones is far to technical for the crazy overhand rights of Chuck

Chuck at the back end ofhis career had lost his chin but back in his prime he had a decent chin. That doesn't really matter when you've got the sort of power Chuck had.

I see Chuck leading in Jones with his awkward counter punch style and landing big with the over hand on one of Jones half ass jabs. That or catching him after a kick. I still believe Chuck is the best light heavyweight to date, man i miss watching him fight! Still my all time favourite!

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Yea John got caught for the first time on a long time during that fight but Machida never had a chance in my eyes.
The key to defeating this guy is KICKING THOSE GOD DANM TOOTHPICK THIGHS OF HIS!!!

am I right?
or take his ass down and sit on him, pound him with elbows like Florian does. Nobody is gonna take this guy out on his feet. I dont think even Chuck in his prime could beat him. He needs to face a divine wrestler
and Rashad is a perfect match.

A Prime Chuck would be an interesting opponent. Jones represents an evolution of MMA fighters well past Chuck but Chuck had fantastic TD defense, one punch KO power and the ability to take a punch to land a punch. I think Jones is too versatile to lose to Chuck but I believe the Ice Man would have been able to take Jon much deeper and challenge him much more than anyone he has faced so far.

Good point but I dont think a fight between the two would last very long. Regardless of how great Chuck was in his Prime he doesn't have the hardest chin. Jones is far to technical for the crazy overhand rights of Chuck

I don't think you have watched many of Chuck's fights before. Just as an example he took the best shots Overeem (yes the same one fighting Lesnar) could dish out then proceeded to knock him out.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Yea John got caught for the first time on a long time during that fight but Machida never had a chance in my eyes.
The key to defeating this guy is KICKING THOSE GOD DANM TOOTHPICK THIGHS OF HIS!!!

am I right?
or take his ass down and sit on him, pound him with elbows like Florian does. Nobody is gonna take this guy out on his feet. I dont think even Chuck in his prime could beat him. He needs to face a divine wrestler
and Rashad is a perfect match.

A Prime Chuck would be an interesting opponent. Jones represents an evolution of MMA fighters well past Chuck but Chuck had fantastic TD defense, one punch KO power and the ability to take a punch to land a punch. I think Jones is too versatile to lose to Chuck but I believe the Ice Man would have been able to take Jon much deeper and challenge him much more than anyone he has faced so far.

Good point but I dont think a fight between the two would last very long. Regardless of how great Chuck was in his Prime he doesn't have the hardest chin. Jones is far to technical for the crazy overhand rights of Chuck

I don't think you have watched many of Chuck's fights before. Just as an example he took the best shots Overeem (yes the same one fighting Lesnar) could dish out then proceeded to knock him out.

That was a great fight Overeem caught Chuck then gets KO'd awesome fight!

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by ReBeL BLacK

Yea John got caught for the first time on a long time during that fight but Machida never had a chance in my eyes.
The key to defeating this guy is KICKING THOSE GOD DANM TOOTHPICK THIGHS OF HIS!!!

am I right?
or take his ass down and sit on him, pound him with elbows like Florian does. Nobody is gonna take this guy out on his feet. I dont think even Chuck in his prime could beat him. He needs to face a divine wrestler
and Rashad is a perfect match.

A Prime Chuck would be an interesting opponent. Jones represents an evolution of MMA fighters well past Chuck but Chuck had fantastic TD defense, one punch KO power and the ability to take a punch to land a punch. I think Jones is too versatile to lose to Chuck but I believe the Ice Man would have been able to take Jon much deeper and challenge him much more than anyone he has faced so far.

Good point but I dont think a fight between the two would last very long. Regardless of how great Chuck was in his Prime he doesn't have the hardest chin. Jones is far to technical for the crazy overhand rights of Chuck

I don't think you have watched many of Chuck's fights before. Just as an example he took the best shots Overeem (yes the same one fighting Lesnar) could dish out then proceeded to knock him out.

yeah your probably right, I have not seen a lot of Chuck's past fights recently so I think my perception was a little bit blurry from the quick Ko's of Evans/ Franklin etc. You got me there

Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

I see Chuck leading in Jones with his awkward counter punch style and landing big with the over hand on one of Jones half ass jabs. That or catching him after a kick. I still believe Chuck is the best light heavyweight to date, man i miss watching him fight! Still my all time favourite!

I dont. Jones has a freakish reach advantage and as good as Chucks takedown defence was, he could be taken down and Jones WOULD get him there. It would only take a few of those elbows and it would be all over. Dont forget Rampage handed chuck his ass in his prime twice

Originally Posted by Snakey

Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

I see Chuck leading in Jones with his awkward counter punch style and landing big with the over hand on one of Jones half ass jabs. That or catching him after a kick. I still believe Chuck is the best light heavyweight to date, man i miss watching him fight! Still my all time favourite!

I dont. Jones has a freakish reach advantage and as good as Chucks takedown defence was, he could be taken down and Jones WOULD get him there. It would only take a few of those elbows and it would be all over. Dont forget Rampage handed chuck his ass in his prime twice

Good post, totally agree. Jones's reach would ensure Chuck doesnt land that big shot cleanly. As good as Chuck was, he was a kickboxer that didnt really kick, and relied on his hands way too much. Jones would show him up to be a one dimensional fighter.

Originally Posted by Mattyhitman

Originally Posted by Snakey

Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

I see Chuck leading in Jones with his awkward counter punch style and landing big with the over hand on one of Jones half ass jabs. That or catching him after a kick. I still believe Chuck is the best light heavyweight to date, man i miss watching him fight! Still my all time favourite!

I dont. Jones has a freakish reach advantage and as good as Chucks takedown defence was, he could be taken down and Jones WOULD get him there. It would only take a few of those elbows and it would be all over. Dont forget Rampage handed chuck his ass in his prime twice

Good post, totally agree. Jones's reach would ensure Chuck doesnt land that big shot cleanly. As good as Chuck was, he was a kickboxer that didnt really kick, and relied on his hands way too much. Jones would show him up to be a one dimensional fighter.

I think one dimensional is not entirely accurate. Chuck had great wrestling. He just used it to keep the fight standing versus on the mat. I would agree his striking was one dimensional. Particularly as the sport kept evolving. I think he would have won a few more if he had started using more takedowns when his chin and reflexes started to leave him.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by Mattyhitman

Originally Posted by Snakey

Originally Posted by mattboxingfan

I see Chuck leading in Jones with his awkward counter punch style and landing big with the over hand on one of Jones half ass jabs. That or catching him after a kick. I still believe Chuck is the best light heavyweight to date, man i miss watching him fight! Still my all time favourite!

I dont. Jones has a freakish reach advantage and as good as Chucks takedown defence was, he could be taken down and Jones WOULD get him there. It would only take a few of those elbows and it would be all over. Dont forget Rampage handed chuck his ass in his prime twice

Good post, totally agree. Jones's reach would ensure Chuck doesnt land that big shot cleanly. As good as Chuck was, he was a kickboxer that didnt really kick, and relied on his hands way too much. Jones would show him up to be a one dimensional fighter.

I think one dimensional is not entirely accurate. Chuck had great wrestling. He just used it to keep the fight standing versus on the mat. I would agree his striking was one dimensional. Particularly as the sport kept evolving. I think he would have won a few more if he had started using more takedowns when his chin and reflexes started to leave him.

Your right he did have great wrestling, just never used it to his advantage imo, he seemed to always prefer to keep it standing and use his boxing to take his opponents out.
Why he didnt utilise the wrestling more for the G&P i'll never know

For one I thing Chuck fell into the old dog can't learn new tricks category. There was a period of time that his striking style and TD defense was cutting edge. The sport evolved both in technique and fighter athletic ability, fighters figured him out and he got older. Chuck just never changed his approach at all. Its hard to be a head hunting banger when your chin starts to go and your reflexes get slower. I'd say post Rampage II Chuck was on the decline and would have benefitted from going to another camp versus staying with Hackelman. I don't know if he'd have won the belt again but I think he would have had a couple more wins.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

For one I thing Chuck fell into the old dog can't learn new tricks category. There was a period of time that his striking style and TD defense was cutting edge. The sport evolved both in technique and fighter athletic ability, fighters figured him out and he got older. Chuck just never changed his approach at all. Its hard to be a head hunting banger when your chin starts to go and your reflexes get slower. I'd say post Rampage II Chuck was on the decline and would have benefitted from going to another camp versus staying with Hackelman. I don't know if he'd have won the belt again but I think he would have had a couple more wins.

Nailed it on the head !
Out of the current crop of LHW's, I see Rampage going down the same route as Chuck did, he has become more reliant on the punching ability rather than using his wrestling ability he showed so well in his Pride days.