Thread: Why is Bradley Manning in prison whilst war criminals run free?

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

What is obvious is your complete ignorance about the U.S. Military and the secondary and tertiary effects of Mannings leak.

No, a war crime was commited and people went unpunished. It isn't a particularly complicated case to make looking at the attitudes and behaviour of the soldiers who commited the acts. It is clearly in the public interest to see this kind of footage.

In an age where the mainstream media refuses to pursue real stories, people like Manning become ever more important.

Assuming the video is as you say I don't disagree with first part of your post, it is your sweeping and uninformed generalizations about the U.S. Military that are incorrect. If the release leads to justice in the case of the video then great but that in no way changes the fact that Manning is a criminal and that the releases of those documents have caused people to lose their lives. He deserves the same justice as any other criminal.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

What is obvious is your complete ignorance about the U.S. Military and the secondary and tertiary effects of Mannings leak.

No, a war crime was commited and people went unpunished. It isn't a particularly complicated case to make looking at the attitudes and behaviour of the soldiers who commited the acts. It is clearly in the public interest to see this kind of footage.

In an age where the mainstream media refuses to pursue real stories, people like Manning become ever more important.

Assuming the video is as you say I don't disagree with first part of your post, it is your sweeping and uninformed generalizations about the U.S. Military that are incorrect. If the release leads to justice in the case of the video then great but that in no way changes the fact that Manning is a criminal and that the releases of those documents have caused people to lose their lives. He deserves the same justice as any other criminal.

Sure, he committed a crime so give him normal prison life. Not this solitary confinement torture. Not being allowed to sleep more than 4 hours in a row is evil treatment. I mean, incarcerate the man, but don't degrade him so. He is still a human being and seemingly a very good one.

What this story points out is the way power has sought to deflect and hasn't actually punished people for the more significant crime of blatant murder. Soldiers like in the video need to be weeded out as they are harmful to the US and in shielding them it makes the military elite themselves look very bad.

Those children have no father for no good reason. That cannot be allowed to go unpunished. If it does then it shows how degraded we ourselves have become. It is deplorable and shouldn't be so.

Military jail is tough. More so than a regular prison but it is pretty easy not to end up there and the whole sleep deprivation bit is absurd. There is so much oversight at military detention facilities now that there is no way his claims of sleep deprivation are true. If solitary confinement doesn't sound good to you then 1. Don't join the military and 2. If you do don't break the rules. Pretty easy thing to avoid. Miles you are aware that Army has tried and convicted somewhere around 10 Soldiers for crimes in Iraq/Afghanistan? LoW, Geneva, escalation of force and the rules of engagement are taken very seriously in the military.

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Military jail is tough. More so than a regular prison but it is pretty easy not to end up there and the whole sleep deprivation bit is absurd. There is so much oversight at military detention facilities now that there is no way his claims of sleep deprivation are true. If solitary confinement doesn't sound good to you then 1. Don't join the military and 2. If you do don't break the rules. Pretty easy thing to avoid. Miles you are aware that Army has tried and convicted somewhere around 10 Soldiers for crimes in Iraq/Afghanistan? LoW, Geneva, escalation of force and the rules of engagement are taken very seriously in the military.

I hope it is taken very seriously.

How about war crimes not be committed in the first place though? And how about absurd wars not be started too?

I have eased my stance on the US military in recent times because of my own experiences at the base and through interaction with people like you, but instances like this make me very angry.

You just cannot defend the killing of innocent people. And when you have criminals like Obama who lied to get elected and also have the media saying that someone like Manning is a liar and should be vilified. Well, that to me is a double standard. The small soldier suffers, whilst the power elite representative gets away scot free.

It is incredibly wrong.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by VictorCharlie

Military jail is tough. More so than a regular prison but it is pretty easy not to end up there and the whole sleep deprivation bit is absurd. There is so much oversight at military detention facilities now that there is no way his claims of sleep deprivation are true. If solitary confinement doesn't sound good to you then 1. Don't join the military and 2. If you do don't break the rules. Pretty easy thing to avoid. Miles you are aware that Army has tried and convicted somewhere around 10 Soldiers for crimes in Iraq/Afghanistan? LoW, Geneva, escalation of force and the rules of engagement are taken very seriously in the military.

I hope it is taken very seriously.

How about war crimes not be committed in the first place though? And how about absurd wars not be started too?

I have eased my stance on the US military in recent times because of my own experiences at the base and through interaction with people like you, but instances like this make me very angry.

You just cannot defend the killing of innocent people. And when you have criminals like Obama who lied to get elected and also have the media saying that someone like Manning is a liar and should be vilified. Well, that to me is a double standard. The small soldier suffers, whilst the power elite representative gets away scot free.

It is incredibly wrong.

Like any organization we have our fair share of bad apples and unfortunately combat is a nasty business. When people go off the reservation in a combat zone the outcome is usually pretty horrific. As far as absurd wars....I just work here.

Originally Posted by miles

The soldiers have not been punished for their actions. If Manning had not released the video it would have all been swept under the carpet and random killings would continue. It is obvious that there is little accountability for war crimes in the present day US military. If there was, then the soldiers would have been punished. However, this hasn't happened.

Manning broke an oath, but in doing so did an extremely noble and courageous thing. I salute the man and regard him as a modern American hero. A true patriot who tried to show how his nation was abusing its power. This is what patriots do. They don't make empty promises to a flag, they stand by their righteous and humanitarian convictions.

The thing Miles is that the guy didn't release only footage of soldiers doing wrong things. If it would be only that, things would be fare less intricated (even if he did violate the military rules). THe guy just sent tons of gigs of material without regard on the content, he just sent it all, which is kind of dumb. You just can't send tons of hot data to guys you don't even know and without taking time to separate what is relevevant so the wrongdoers are punished but nobody else at risk. VanChilld has quite a fair point here I think.

Originally Posted by Nameless

Originally Posted by miles

The soldiers have not been punished for their actions. If Manning had not released the video it would have all been swept under the carpet and random killings would continue. It is obvious that there is little accountability for war crimes in the present day US military. If there was, then the soldiers would have been punished. However, this hasn't happened.

Manning broke an oath, but in doing so did an extremely noble and courageous thing. I salute the man and regard him as a modern American hero. A true patriot who tried to show how his nation was abusing its power. This is what patriots do. They don't make empty promises to a flag, they stand by their righteous and humanitarian convictions.

The thing Miles is that the guy didn't release only footage of soldiers doing wrong things. If it would be only that, things would be fare less intricated (even if he did violate the military rules). THe guy just sent tons of gigs of material without regard on the content, he just sent it all, which is kind of dumb. You just can't send tons of hot data to guys you don't even know and without taking time to separate what is relevevant so the wrongdoers are punished but nobody else at risk. VanChilld has quite a fair point here I think.

Which one?

And let's not be idiots, the Iraq war itself was a war crime.

Originally Posted by miles

Originally Posted by Nameless

Originally Posted by miles

The soldiers have not been punished for their actions. If Manning had not released the video it would have all been swept under the carpet and random killings would continue. It is obvious that there is little accountability for war crimes in the present day US military. If there was, then the soldiers would have been punished. However, this hasn't happened.

Manning broke an oath, but in doing so did an extremely noble and courageous thing. I salute the man and regard him as a modern American hero. A true patriot who tried to show how his nation was abusing its power. This is what patriots do. They don't make empty promises to a flag, they stand by their righteous and humanitarian convictions.

The thing Miles is that the guy didn't release only footage of soldiers doing wrong things. If it would be only that, things would be fare less intricated (even if he did violate the military rules). THe guy just sent tons of gigs of material without regard on the content, he just sent it all, which is kind of dumb. You just can't send tons of hot data to guys you don't even know and without taking time to separate what is relevevant so the wrongdoers are punished but nobody else at risk. VanChilld has quite a fair point here I think.

Which one?

And let's not be idiots, the Iraq war itself was a war crime.

The iraq war was just wrongly handled from beginning to end (including its reasons). As for the documents that Manning sent, I didn't skim the whole X gigs of data for reasons you can imagine but if I am correct, he did send, among othere things, names of military in charge of some places as well as some detailed equipment listing. The guy just sent everything he had under hand and you can't do that.

Bigger question is why he has not be tried for treason and executed yet?

I don't think miles has wrapped his head around what revealing state secrets to everyone could lead to.

Just sit back and think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for a second.....now think of this, we (the big boys in the world: US, England, China, Russia, France, etc) don't have nuclear weapons that small anymore. Now imagine some little punk like Bradley Manning "accidentally" leaks something dangerous that a troll like Julian Assange thinks can further his aura/mystique/career and that "something dangerous" ends up setting off a war. Miles, you of all people should admit that war is easily started these days and providing this kind of fuel to the fire is not safe.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

I don't think miles has wrapped his head around what revealing state secrets to everyone could lead to.

Just sit back and think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for a second.....now think of this, we (the big boys in the world: US, England, China, Russia, France, etc) don't have nuclear weapons that small anymore. Now imagine some little punk like Bradley Manning "accidentally" leaks something dangerous that a troll like Julian Assange thinks can further his aura/mystique/career and that "something dangerous" ends up setting off a war. Miles, you of all people should admit that war is easily started these days and providing this kind of fuel to the fire is not safe.

It's even easier when you have developed so much lethal force. Was it all developed for peaceful purposes? War is easily started by the fading empire nations. It's all they have left after shelling their own nations and others economically over 40 years.

Safe is not starting wars for no good legal reason. Manning didn't start a war. He was just part of an illegal one and showed us unpunished war crimes.

Manning is a hero, Assange a warrior and Obama a US traitor.

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Originally Posted by El Kabong

I don't think miles has wrapped his head around what revealing state secrets to everyone could lead to.

Just sit back and think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for a second.....now think of this, we (the big boys in the world: US, England, China, Russia, France, etc) don't have nuclear weapons that small anymore. Now imagine some little punk like Bradley Manning "accidentally" leaks something dangerous that a troll like Julian Assange thinks can further his aura/mystique/career and that "something dangerous" ends up setting off a war. Miles, you of all people should admit that war is easily started these days and providing this kind of fuel to the fire is not safe.

It's even easier when you have developed so much lethal force. Was it all developed for peaceful purposes? War is easily started by the fading empire nations. It's all they have left after shelling their own nations and others economically over 40 years.

Safe is not starting wars for no good legal reason. Manning didn't start a war. He was just part of an illegal one and showed us unpunished war crimes.

Manning is a hero, Assange a warrior and Obama a US traitor.

Manning could have been look in higher regard if he would have only leaked the necessary. Assange is an intricated character, I like and dislike him for many reasons but I like the idea of a Government watchdog forcing them to think twice. As for Obama, I believe it's a bit strong to consider him as a US ratitor rather than a huge disappointment so far.

Originally Posted by Nameless

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Originally Posted by El Kabong

I don't think miles has wrapped his head around what revealing state secrets to everyone could lead to.

Just sit back and think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki for a second.....now think of this, we (the big boys in the world: US, England, China, Russia, France, etc) don't have nuclear weapons that small anymore. Now imagine some little punk like Bradley Manning "accidentally" leaks something dangerous that a troll like Julian Assange thinks can further his aura/mystique/career and that "something dangerous" ends up setting off a war. Miles, you of all people should admit that war is easily started these days and providing this kind of fuel to the fire is not safe.

It's even easier when you have developed so much lethal force. Was it all developed for peaceful purposes? War is easily started by the fading empire nations. It's all they have left after shelling their own nations and others economically over 40 years.

Safe is not starting wars for no good legal reason. Manning didn't start a war. He was just part of an illegal one and showed us unpunished war crimes.

Manning is a hero, Assange a warrior and Obama a US traitor.

Manning could have been look in higher regard if he would have only leaked the necessary. Assange is an intricated character, I like and dislike him for many reasons but I like the idea of a Government watchdog forcing them to think twice. As for Obama, I believe it's a bit strong to consider him as a US ratitor rather than a huge disappointment so far.

Politically we will have to disagree.

Whistleblowers are essential and this information was vital in creating and shaping what we all know about the US government and its military.

And the fact that they don't care about war crimes, shows them as being the decaying Roman Empire that they are.

Illegal wars, illegal acts and torture. Modern America has become the Soviet Union in many respects. or should I say becoming....because it is.