Thread: What are your criticisms of the boxing programming at HBO/Showtime?

Ken Hershman and Stephen Espinoza begin their tenure this year on HBO and Showtime respectively. I know it is probably futile, but I was considering drafting a letter to them regarding areas that HBO and Showtime could improve upon. What do posters here feel HBO/Showtime can improve upon or continue to do correctly.

For example, I believe they can do a better job forcing tougher matchmaking at the top level. I believe catering to certain advisors/promoters frequently makes for worse television because promoters are hesitant to put their guys in tough. We don't need to see Andre Berto fighting cans for $1M. Stick to their guns in terms of tough match ups at least on paper and if a promoter doesn't have a good match-up in his stable of fighters, force the promoter to work other promoters.

Another example is to pay more attention to the little guys. All too often the little guys are ignored yet turn out eye-catching performances. Half of the foy of the year candidates this year consisted of guys in the lighter weight classes. At least on the undercards, put on guys like Hernan Marquez and Hugo Ruiz. They won't cost too much and they make for great fights. Additionally, fighters from the lighter weight classes appeal to the Latino and Asian demographic.

Go out of the US more. Push for fights in Mexico, the Philipines, Indonesia and the UK etc. The atmosphere at the events makes for great television.

Those are just a couple of ideas I had. I'm sure the knowledgable posters at Saddo's have many that I haven't considered. Advice?

HBO/Showtime/ESPN...all of them need to understand there are certain things true fans know

#1 STYLES MAKE FIGHTS...let's try to plan good solid style matchups: Gatti-Ward, Corrales-Castillo, Berto-Ortiz....GOOD, Bernard Hopkins vs anyone, Byrd vs Williamson, Williams vs Cintron BAD...(however B-Hop will be redeemed further down the list)

#2 Undercard matches matter and should therefore be as exciting if not more exciting than the Main Event. UFC is currently kicking your asses on this front.

#3 If you can't get a good style match up at the very least make the fight worth something, a title shot, a record...SOMETHING. This is where B-Hop fits in, he's old, he's cagey, he's a wiley veteran that's forgotten more about boxing than his opponents will ever learn.

#4 Especially ESPN DON'T BASH THE SPORT...commentators are too quick to be negative about boxing, even the guys who say they love it, they love to knit pick at petty little shit and let it ruin a night of boxing. Just because something happened that irritates you or you don't agree with doesn't mean you need to say "This is what's killing boxing" or some such hyperbole.

#5 Use competent judges and referees....NO MORE LAURENCE COLE!!! I don't care whose dick he sucked in Texas to where he does all the God damned fights there he is HORRIBLE. And no more sorry ass judges...actually if a judge turns in a bad card I would like to see them be forced to defend it in a post fight press conference...it's time we cleaned the sport up!

#6 Just because a fight happens outside of the US doesn't mean its total crap...perhaps there was a day where that was true, but now the US and the Western Hemisphere doesn't hold sway over the whole of boxing like it used to...you'll have to travel, you'll have to run tape delay or fix your programming schedule to account for this....tough shit, it's the way of the world.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

HBO/Showtime/ESPN...all of them need to understand there are certain things true fans know

#1 STYLES MAKE FIGHTS...let's try to plan good solid style matchups: Gatti-Ward, Corrales-Castillo, Berto-Ortiz....GOOD, Bernard Hopkins vs anyone, Byrd vs Williamson, Williams vs Cintron BAD...(however B-Hop will be redeemed further down the list)

#2 Undercard matches matter and should therefore be as exciting if not more exciting than the Main Event. UFC is currently kicking your asses on this front.

#3 If you can't get a good style match up at the very least make the fight worth something, a title shot, a record...SOMETHING. This is where B-Hop fits in, he's old, he's cagey, he's a wiley veteran that's forgotten more about boxing than his opponents will ever learn.

#4 Especially ESPN DON'T BASH THE SPORT...commentators are too quick to be negative about boxing, even the guys who say they love it, they love to knit pick at petty little shit and let it ruin a night of boxing. Just because something happened that irritates you or you don't agree with doesn't mean you need to say "This is what's killing boxing" or some such hyperbole.

#5 Use competent judges and referees....NO MORE LAURENCE COLE!!! I don't care whose dick he sucked in Texas to where he does all the God damned fights there he is HORRIBLE. And no more sorry ass judges...actually if a judge turns in a bad card I would like to see them be forced to defend it in a post fight press conference...it's time we cleaned the sport up!

#6 Just because a fight happens outside of the US doesn't mean its total crap...perhaps there was a day where that was true, but now the US and the Western Hemisphere doesn't hold sway over the whole of boxing like it used to...you'll have to travel, you'll have to run tape delay or fix your programming schedule to account for this....tough shit, it's the way of the world.

Lyle - how much influence do the tv stations have over refs/judges? Is it more the Commission? I'm not sure, just asking.

The emphasis of the post is how would you improve their boxing content?

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Lyle - how much influence do the tv stations have over refs/judges? Is it more the Commission? I'm not sure, just asking.

Well I am of the opinion that the promoters and Athletic Comissions have the most sway, but I do think HBO & Showtime could turn the screws on them...after all, where is boxing without the medium of television

Showtime on-demand sucks. That's my only complaint.



Ken hershman must run Hbo like he did showtime. Purchase fights instead of fighters and I think they are on the right path in 2012..

Im more of a Showtime guy though.

Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Showtime on-demand sucks. That's my only complaint.



Ken hershman must run Hbo like he did showtime. Purchase fights instead of fighters and I think they are on the right path in 2012..

Im more of a Showtime guy though.

Good line.

stop overpaying for fights!!!! HBO has been horrible at that. Guys like Bradley and Berto get paid too much. Neither guy can make money without tv because they aren't live draws.

Showtime would pay about 1/2 as much as HBO does and yet HBO pays way too much.

IF you are pricing fights then why doesn't HBO think about how much Showtime will pay for a fight-and then add a 100,000.

Not pay a fighter 1,000,000 for a fight where Showtime would pay 400,000-500,000. IT IS PURE LUNACY.

You can easily do this as well. The purses for the showtime fights are published by the commissions in many states (I believe). Keep a log of all of those and then you can accurately guess how much Showtime will pay.

I think HBO need to get rid of Manny Steward and Jim Lampley. They are well past their sell by date. Meanwhile Larry Merchant needs a 50 year contract extension. He is hardcore.

Get rid of Harold Lederman!!

He is obviously an in house judge but damn!! The guy is so jaded in his scoring its ridiculous.

The most annoying thing about his scoring is his inconsistent reasoning about why he gives fighters rounds.


For example:

• Marquez Vs. Pacquiao - Lederman explaining his scores in the mid rounds saying that when a punch count is equal (it was right after a round that they both landed 10 punches) you have to give the round to the more aggressive fighter (Manny) He said it several times about how JMM's style is not appreciated by judges who like himself favor the agressive agressor.

Ok Harold we will accept that reasoning, a few weeks later we have exibit B

• Cotto VS Margarito -Mid rounds Lederman yells for joy saying "to all the boxing purists who ask if a fighter can win a fight while running away I say the answer is yes!!"

Fire Lederman!!

The original poster made an excellent point regarding HBO. Head of to new shores. It great when they are here in the UK etc but go to places like Japan , Australia or even South America.

Same could be said of Showtime.

I agree about Lederman, he is way off all too often these days. "Jim, I gotta tell ya..."....that you are showing signs of dementia? What are you trying to tell us Harold because none of us are seeing what you are seeing anymore.

I prefer Showtime a lot more than HBO. HBO these days has become somewhat irritating. By contrast I really like Bernstein, Tarver and Gray.

For me Larry Merchant is the only one left at HBO that I genuinely enjoy listening to. Lampley has become too noisy, babbles and is all ego and Manny Steward seems to be getting senile. Lederman is all over the place with his scoring unless it is a really obvious fight.

HBO is flashier, but it's more style over content.

Originally Posted by Gandalf

I prefer Showtime a lot more than HBO. HBO these days has become somewhat irritating. By contrast I really like Bernstein, Tarver and Gray.

For me Larry Merchant is the only one left at HBO that I genuinely enjoy listening to. Lampley has become too noisy, babbles and is all ego and Manny Steward seems to be getting senile. Lederman is all over the place with his scoring unless it is a really obvious fight.

HBO is flashier, but it's more style over content.

Merchant is the best on HBO , i like you believe that Bernstein , Tarver and Gray do an excellent job , pity we cant have a bernstein and merchant partnership

Originally Posted by captainanddew

stop overpaying for fights!!!! HBO has been horrible at that. Guys like Bradley and Berto get paid too much. Neither guy can make money without tv because they aren't live draws.

Showtime would pay about 1/2 as much as HBO does and yet HBO pays way too much.

IF you are pricing fights then why doesn't HBO think about how much Showtime will pay for a fight-and then add a 100,000.

Not pay a fighter 1,000,000 for a fight where Showtime would pay 400,000-500,000. IT IS PURE LUNACY.

You can easily do this as well. The purses for the showtime fights are published by the commissions in many states (I believe). Keep a log of all of those and then you can accurately guess how much Showtime will pay.

Right, don't pay a lot of $ to a fighter unless he is facing a real challenge, which is to say, pay for the fight, not the fighter. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?