Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by boyla

Cruiser Weight champ, yes but that is still many rungs down the ladder from being HW champ.

Heavy Weight champion, only just in name he avoided the two biggest fighters Wlad and Vitali
Only later to be outclassed by Wlad in both the press conferences and the fight.

Even Buster Douglas, beat the undisputed HW champion, something Haye has never done.

avoid wlad and vitali yet he fought wlad? in his boxing home?

and haye doesnt have it because he didnt equal the single biggest upset in hw boxing history?

cummon man you can do better than that cant you?

Well it is hard to justify calling him a HW champion, because he avoided to two best ranked heavyweights.
He got a belt, but he didn't beat a top HW fighter, he was not even the best fighter in Europe nevermind the world.
Since when does beating the third? best HW, make you champion.

When he did fight one of the two top ranked HW for the past ten years, he lost.
Not much a a heavy weight champion there.

Buster beat the undisputed HW champion, so did Hasim Rahman, something Haye will never achieve.
As for his very short reign as a HW champion of the world ,
He fought Ruiz then Ordinary Harrison, then he got beat and retired.

Not what I would call a champion, Ruiz was ranked a still giving good performances.

I am not expecting every HW to be a lineal champion, but I expect them to beat the best fighters in the division, before they can claim to be the best.

The Klitschos have been a dominate force in the HW for the past ten years to side step them, beat "another" fighter then wear a belt and claim you are the best fighter in the world.

It just does not add up.

So when people claim Haye was a HW champion, who did he beat to earn that title, Valuev just does not cut the mustard, then Ruiz, Ordinary then he got beat.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Master

Fortunately all the Haye accomplishments pale into insignificance by his Audley farce and Wlad toegate performance.

I can understand how the wlad performance and the toe thing can make people think the way they do, but lets put that in perspective, how did wlad do in his first world championship fight?

How long was it before wlad fought away from home in a world championship fight?

The audley fight was a farce, the worst i have ever seen in boxing, i knew it would happen too, as did the majority of boxing fans. BUT david haye made more money out of that fight than he would have in any other fight barring the klits in germany, do you reall blame haye for that?

Wlad won the WBO title off of Chris Byrd in 2000 by UD and then defended the belt in 2001 in Las Vegas vs Charles Shufford...but he had fought away from home long before that.

Boyla another stupid post sorry


El kabong, in what fight did wlad fight away from home long before the byrd fight? And what happened in his first world title fight?

Look im not saying wlad had it easy im just giving proof that haye had heart

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac

Originally Posted by erics44

haye has heart

I'm sorry. What David Haye do you know? Because we're talking about a different fella, I suppose. Because David Haye's only notable opponent was Wladmir Klitschko. And boy, didn't he show heart?

If bitching about your toe shows heart, I don't even know the sport of boxing anymore.

unfortunately man you are another who is clouded by your hate for haye

i dislike boxers but i dont let these feelings get in the way of my judgement of their skills

What other side is there than what he's shown us? The side where he looks good against sub-par opponents? Don't give me that bullshit.

was he not the unified cruiser champ? did he not win the title away from home? was he not hw champ? did he not win the title away from home?

was he not willing to fight wlad in wlads boxing home? did he not give up all the advantages in the fight?

he has heart, i can see why you hate him, but be realistic

He was the Cruiserweight Champion, sure. But the cruiserweights have limited competition, as do the heavyweights.

But, no. He was not the Heavyweight Champion. Maybe on paper, he was, but he didn't beat either of the two best heavyweights.

He didn't have any advantages when fighting Wlad. We sure thought he did, but he truly didn't. When you come to lose, you don't have any advantages what so ever.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Master

Fortunately all the Haye accomplishments pale into insignificance by his Audley farce and Wlad toegate performance.

I can understand how the wlad performance and the toe thing can make people think the way they do, but lets put that in perspective, how did wlad do in his first world championship fight?

How long was it before wlad fought away from home in a world championship fight?

The audley fight was a farce, the worst i have ever seen in boxing, i knew it would happen too, as did the majority of boxing fans. BUT david haye made more money out of that fight than he would have in any other fight barring the klits in germany, do you reall blame haye for that?

Yes. You really can blame Haye for that. If he made that money working hard and taking money from an employer, that's all good and well. But he didn't. He made money off of boxing fans, and then robbed them of a decent performance. Of course you can blame him for that.

Originally Posted by erics44

Well you have to give him some credit, he won the hw title in his second or third hw fight


And i dont know if there are many fighters would turn down 10 million to fight audley instead of maximum 1 million to fight someone like areola ( first name that came to mind as a major contender of the time)

And does it really sum up hayes hw career or does it sum up the hw division? Look who wlad is fighting this weekend

He gets no credit for not being a true champion. He is a con man that isn't even good enough to fool everybody. He needs lessons from Hopkins.

Greed is no excuse for being a terrible fighter. And yes, it sums up his heavyweight career. Wlad is fighting Mormeck because he doesn't really have many other options. Wlad can't fight Vitali, and he can't fight himself. He's earned his spot as the heavyweight champion. You can't just come in, not fight the best, and then have a spot as a heavyweight champion. It shouldn't work that way, and we need to shun that way of thinking in general.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by boyla

Cruiser Weight champ, yes but that is still many rungs down the ladder from being HW champ.

Heavy Weight champion, only just in name he avoided the two biggest fighters Wlad and Vitali
Only later to be outclassed by Wlad in both the press conferences and the fight.

Even Buster Douglas, beat the undisputed HW champion, something Haye has never done.

avoid wlad and vitali yet he fought wlad? in his boxing home?

and haye doesnt have it because he didnt equal the single biggest upset in hw boxing history?

cummon man you can do better than that cant you?

He talked crap for years before stepping into the ring with Wlad. And he gave a very very poor performance.

I could have put on a more entertaining fight than Haye did. Haye didn't earn anything.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by erics44

Well you have to give him some credit, he won the hw title in his second or third hw fight


And i dont know if there are many fighters would turn down 10 million to fight audley instead of maximum 1 million to fight someone like areola ( first name that came to mind as a major contender of the time)

And does it really sum up hayes hw career or does it sum up the hw division? Look who wlad is fighting this weekend

It's ok to like Haye. He's actually exciting if and when he comes to fight. But you gotta rake him over the coals for his performance against Wlad. Not only was it disgraceful... it was downright disrespectful to the boxing fans who paid money to see the fight. If you're gonna talk the talk... you gotta at least make SOME effort to walk the walk.

mate i dont particularly like him as a person, and yes he deserves all of the abuse he gets for that performance

but my point is people are being daft about his skills because the dont like him

read a couple of posts above from boyla, its a typical example of a completely irrational post fueled by his hate for haye

i read in another thread someone writing chisora's performance against vitali proves that chis would beat haye? how does it? if the two were to fight only a fool would put money on chisora

Than count me a fool. Because Haye doesn't have the guts to stick it in with a fighter like Chisora.

slim, your posts are unreasonable and fueled by your hate for haye, theres always daft reasons why hayes achievements were shit

- he was cruiserweight champ but the cruisers were all shit
- he wasnt HW champ because he never beat wlad or vitali. Mate there have been hundreds of world champs who havent beaten the best in the division
- he made 10 million from a fight what the fans wanted yet he shouldnt have had the fight coz he would win easy

As you are probably quite young and quite new to the boxing world i'll do you a favour and give you one betting tip, its an absolute sure thing too and the odds might even be reasonable so dont turn your nose up at it - if the haye chisora fight ever happens dont bet on chisora

Originally Posted by erics44

slim, your posts are unreasonable and fueled by your hate for haye, theres always daft reasons why hayes achievements were shit

- he was cruiserweight champ but the cruisers were all shit
- he wasnt HW champ because he never beat wlad or vitali. Mate there have been hundreds of world champs who havent beaten the best in the division
- he made 10 million from a fight what the fans wanted yet he shouldnt have had the fight coz he would win easy

As you are probably quite young and quite new to the boxing world i'll do you a favour and give you one betting tip, its an absolute sure thing too and the odds might even be reasonable so dont turn your nose up at it - if the haye chisora fight ever happens dont bet on chisora

But who did he fight at HW to make him champ Valvez, Auldrey and Ruiz.

Buster is looking better every fucking day.

I wonder in 20 years we will still be talking about haye beating Valvez, and comparing him with Ali.

I doubt it, you say he has skills and heart, but he also had the opportunities and he wasted them.

Cruiserweight, who gives a fuck about that division really.

Do not make me laugh.

I wish someone would step up with a decent well constructed argument so i would at least have something to think about

Originally Posted by erics44

I wish someone would step up with a decent well constructed argument so i would at least have something to think about

Everyone is tired of David Haye....besides isn't he retired....I don't know, I could be confusing it with "retarded" when it comes to talking about Haye, either way he's one if not both of those

Originally Posted by erics44

slim, your posts are unreasonable and fueled by your hate for haye, theres always daft reasons why hayes achievements were shit

- he was cruiserweight champ but the cruisers were all shit
- he wasnt HW champ because he never beat wlad or vitali. Mate there have been hundreds of world champs who havent beaten the best in the division
- he made 10 million from a fight what the fans wanted yet he shouldnt have had the fight coz he would win easy

As you are probably quite young and quite new to the boxing world i'll do you a favour and give you one betting tip, its an absolute sure thing too and the odds might even be reasonable so dont turn your nose up at it - if the haye chisora fight ever happens dont bet on chisora

-Limited division, in my opinion. He didn't fight Cunningham, did he?
-Those hundreds of world champions are also not champions. They didn't fight the best, and they're full of shit.
-He shouldn't have had the fight because he could have had fought somebody who posed a challenge and given us a good show. But no, he wasted our time and money.

My expectations aren't that high. I just expect a fighter to not be a total twat.

Is cruiserweight even a legitimate division.

Maybe Light heavy, but cruiserweight may as well be <insert gay joke> weight here.

Ok slim and boyla

So were not just slagging david haye here are we? What we are saying is the cruiser weight division is rubbish and there fore no cruiser weight champ has ever been legitemate, and we are also slagging 90% of the world champs that have ever been because they didnt fight the number 1 in their division

Is there anything we like about boxing?

Originally Posted by erics44

Ok slim and boyla

So were not just slagging david haye here are we? What we are saying is the cruiser weight division is rubbish and there fore no cruiser weight champ has ever been legitemate, and we are also slagging 90% of the world champs that have ever been because they didnt fight the number 1 in their division

Is there anything we like about boxing?

I consider Steve Cunningham a cruiserweight champion.

90% of the world champions aren't world champions! We need to go back to the good old days where there were 7 world champions. I can't follow 24,000 fucking divisions with 10 recognized organizations giving out World Championship Belts.

Fucking ridiculous. The sports lost its simplicity, and that's why we don't have any fans any more.

Uss is a cruiserweight champ but the cruiserweight is shit so it dunt matter

Originally Posted by erics44

Uss is a cruiserweight champ but the cruiserweight is shit so it dunt matter

I'll admit that I simply don't follow the Cruiserweight division very closely. So it's really not my place to talk about it.

What I do know is the heavyweight division. I haven't seen evidence of Haye being the good fella that some people claim he is.

Unified champs move up a division, often straight into a title shot - people don't bat an eyelid.

Haye does it and people are upset and don't think he deserved it. I love how in any other weight class its fine to move up into big fights... But Haye was expected to start his record again from scratch?

People (understandably) dislike Haye and like Erics says this sometimes causes them to come up with clouded judgements.

Wlad was awful against Haye and his latest 'fight' is one of the worst match ups ever made in boxing. I hope his next fight is great because he's hardly on a career high right now is he?