Thread: Salido stops Lopez!! Is this it for Juan Ma?

Ortiz had been down against Maidana and Berto, but his legs weren't fucking jelly where it was dangerous for him to be standing.


Mtagwa had Lopez completely out on his feet in the 12th. Salido had him in very bad shape in 2 fights.

Originally Posted by captainanddew

Ortiz had been down against Maidana and Berto, but his legs weren't fucking jelly where it was dangerous for him to be standing.


Mtagwa had Lopez completely out on his feet in the 12th. Salido had him in very bad shape in 2 fights.

Yeah he was out on his feet but I don't think he's taken any more damage than ortiz has in their respective careers, but maybe his chin/recuperative powers just aren't as good...I didn't think he was in deep shit or anything till the end and that was definitely a good stoppage but I'm just saying I don't think he's permanently damaged or anything, but he is shavin off time of his career with his fighting style and life style

It's probably not "it" for JuanMa, but he's got to do some serious self-analysis and determine what he wants to do with his career. He's got no business being in the same ring with Orlando Salido, and what he needs to do... if he wants to keep on fighting... is learn from his mistakes and be willing to make the necessary adjustments. I had been saying this all along, leading up to the Salido fight. I always said that if JuanMa made the necessary adjustments, even going so far as changing corners (like Cotto did), he had the tools and skills to beat Salido. If he didn't... he wouldn't. And that's how it went down.

JuanMa has no defense, and his punch resistance has to have decreased after the incredible wars he's been through. He's still a formidable offensive force, and has one of the more dangerous short right hooks in the business. But he also seems a bit slower than the JuanMa of the past.

It all depends on what he wants to do. He also needs to make some character adjustments. Blaming the refs for his losses hasn't won him any new fans, and probably has lost him some old ones. As we speak, he's getting raked over the coals for his comments, right here in Puerto Rico. And I wouldn't be surprised if Roberto Ramirez Sr. decided to sue JuanMa for defamation of character.

In any case, JuanMa can still fight at the world class level... but he's got some serious retooling to do.

I think that Juanma can come again he must change his corner but he can still be a great fighter if he learns from his mistakes.
Look at Salido! 11 losses and now he's a world champion fighting the best he ever has, throwing Juanma under the bus is silly and the overreactions of fans to a loss is why the best don't fight the best in boxing.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

It's probably not "it" for JuanMa, but he's got to do some serious self-analysis and determine what he wants to do with his career. He's got no business being in the same ring with Orlando Salido, and what he needs to do... if he wants to keep on fighting... is learn from his mistakes and be willing to make the necessary adjustments. I had been saying this all along, leading up to the Salido fight. I always said that if JuanMa made the necessary adjustments, even going so far as changing corners (like Cotto did), he had the tools and skills to beat Salido. If he didn't... he wouldn't. And that's how it went down.

JuanMa has no defense, and his punch resistance has to have decreased after the incredible wars he's been through. He's still a formidable offensive force, and has one of the more dangerous short right hooks in the business. But he also seems a bit slower than the JuanMa of the past.

It all depends on what he wants to do. He also needs to make some character adjustments. Blaming the refs for his losses hasn't won him any new fans, and probably has lost him some old ones. As we speak, he's getting raked over the coals for his comments, right here in Puerto Rico. And I wouldn't be surprised if Roberto Ramirez Sr. decided to sue JuanMa for defamation of character.

In any case, JuanMa can still fight at the world class level... but he's got some serious retooling to do.

What are they saying about him and his comments?

Originally Posted by Majesty

Originally Posted by Hulk

Come on now guys this is overboard. Lopez's career isn't over just as Mosley's wasn't over after he lost twice to Forrest or Forrest's career after he lost twice to Mayorga.

Granted this one was a particularly brutal loss and war, but Lopez can still beat some other top guys. Salido just has his number is all.

Juan Manuel Lopez is still a world class talent, just needs to possibly get a new trainer and/or seriously work on his defense.

The difference between Mosley and Forrest's losses were in the rematches they were both close and depending on who you talk to questionable, but neither second fight was a beatdown and Forrest didn't really sustain a beating nor did Mosley aside from the round Forrest dropped him in.


But Lopez has just been stopped twice, one you could say was questionable but in this fight he was battered around the ring, dished out all he could and got knocked out even worse than last time, he took a beating like Mugabi took from Hagler. And even tonight Juanma looked gunshy and his legs went whenever he got hit with a hard punch regardless on whether he recovered fast or not, I didn't like the way his legs shook when he got hit by Salido's left hand early in the fight. It was very Meldrick Taylor post Chavez-like.

That plus Lopez didn't seem to fight with confidence, he had confidence when he dropped Salido, and then when he went out for the 6th and was hit again he went back into his shell. I think mentally Juanma doesn't want to be knocked out again, I think mentally he's ruined. So even if he comes back, he won't be the same fighter, mentally or physically. And when you aren't the same mentally, get out while you still can sustain yourself physically.

I disagree Barrera came back after Junior Jones, Morales after being twice stopped by Pac Man.

It can be done.

Didn't see Lopez behaving nearly as gun shy as Roy Jones did after his KO loss to tarver. Lopez was intimidated by Salido sure, but nothing to that degree.

Time will tell.

But to hastily say Lopez's career is over because of two losses is childish in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Originally Posted by TitoFan

It's probably not "it" for JuanMa, but he's got to do some serious self-analysis and determine what he wants to do with his career. He's got no business being in the same ring with Orlando Salido, and what he needs to do... if he wants to keep on fighting... is learn from his mistakes and be willing to make the necessary adjustments. I had been saying this all along, leading up to the Salido fight. I always said that if JuanMa made the necessary adjustments, even going so far as changing corners (like Cotto did), he had the tools and skills to beat Salido. If he didn't... he wouldn't. And that's how it went down.

JuanMa has no defense, and his punch resistance has to have decreased after the incredible wars he's been through. He's still a formidable offensive force, and has one of the more dangerous short right hooks in the business. But he also seems a bit slower than the JuanMa of the past.

It all depends on what he wants to do. He also needs to make some character adjustments. Blaming the refs for his losses hasn't won him any new fans, and probably has lost him some old ones. As we speak, he's getting raked over the coals for his comments, right here in Puerto Rico. And I wouldn't be surprised if Roberto Ramirez Sr. decided to sue JuanMa for defamation of character.

In any case, JuanMa can still fight at the world class level... but he's got some serious retooling to do.

What are they saying about him and his comments?

Most people here are severely critizing JuanMa and his unfortunate comments. Both Roberto Ramirez Sr. and Jr. are highly respected referees here, and to hear JuanMa make those outrageous comments, well.... he's being flogged pretty good. I think it's pretty unanimous that both stoppages were completely warranted, ESPECIALLY the second one. Ramirez Sr. likely saved JuanMa from career-ending or maybe even life-threatening injury by stopping the fight. Gotta admire JuanMa's HUGE heart, and wish to go on in both cases.

I'm still waiting to see if there's any fallout from JuanMa's comments as far as Ramirez is concerned. After the first fight, Ramirez Sr. felt his son was being unjustly criticized, but I think JuanMa's camp later apologized and it went no further. But claiming that both father and son have some sort of betting issue may have gone a bit too far, even if JuanMa was still woozy from the beating he took. We'll just have to see.

Just watched the fight - Great fight, first of all.

I noticed a few things about JuanMa and here they are in no particular order :

*He has Amir Khan syndrome. He could have made this fight a lot more comfortable for himself but he fought Salido's fight. Salido is a machine and kept coming forward no doubt, not taking anything away from him but even when Juanma had him backing up, he was pouring into Salido's range with zero defence throwing bombs...that's Salido's game.

*JuanMa's punch technique reminds me of Ricky Hatton. Both not as powerful as we were made to believe. Both fighters body shots and hooks are ok (Juanma's hook much better than Hattons) but their straight right is more of a "chopping" right hand that lands with the inside of the glove and downwards. I think if JuanMa could learn to throw that straight right and turn his glove over, he could have kept Salido at range better with the 1-2. That's where the fight needed to be for JuanMa

*He's stupid for contesting the stoppage. Most refs would have stopped it as soon as he done the silly dance towards them but he gave him an oppurtunity to recover up to an 8-9 count. JuanMa was done.

*I think JuanMa could carry on fighting at a high level IF and ONLY IF they carefully match him up with somebody who isn't going to take his shots all night and keep coming forward like a bulldozer. Otherwise he is just too macho and will get knocked out time and time again by fighters like Salido.

*It also seems like he has stamina issues. That seemed like part of the reason that the knockdown occured. Salido was much fresher than Lopez was by the end of that fight.

...Notes finished

Originally Posted by Althugz

Just watched the fight - Great fight, first of all.

I noticed a few things about JuanMa and here they are in no particular order :

*He has Amir Khan syndrome. He could have made this fight a lot more comfortable for himself but he fought Salido's fight. Salido is a machine and kept coming forward no doubt, not taking anything away from him but even when Juanma had him backing up, he was pouring into Salido's range with zero defence throwing bombs...that's Salido's game.

*JuanMa's punch technique reminds me of Ricky Hatton. Both not as powerful as we were made to believe. Both fighters body shots and hooks are ok (Juanma's hook much better than Hattons) but their straight right is more of a "chopping" right hand that lands with the inside of the glove and downwards. I think if JuanMa could learn to throw that straight right and turn his glove over, he could have kept Salido at range better with the 1-2. That's where the fight needed to be for JuanMa

*He's stupid for contesting the stoppage. Most refs would have stopped it as soon as he done the silly dance towards them but he gave him an oppurtunity to recover up to an 8-9 count. JuanMa was done.

*I think JuanMa could carry on fighting at a high level IF and ONLY IF they carefully match him up with somebody who isn't going to take his shots all night and keep coming forward like a bulldozer. Otherwise he is just too macho and will get knocked out time and time again by fighters like Salido.

*It also seems like he has stamina issues. That seemed like part of the reason that the knockdown occured. Salido was much fresher than Lopez was by the end of that fight.

...Notes finished

Great points. The fight reminded me of margo - cotto 1 for some reason, not just because of the puerto rico mexico rivalry, also the way the fight panned out with JML not getting the better out of a pressure fighter who has a solid chin. He was being bulldozed but still had a ton of heart, though him contesting it was a premature stoppage seems a bit absurd seeing how his legs were jelly way after the count was made. Tremendous fight all the way and early foty candidate.

Originally Posted by arcanum26

Great points. The fight reminded me of margo - cotto 1 for some reason, not just because of the puerto rico mexico rivalry, also the way the fight panned out with JML not getting the better out of a pressure fighter who has a solid chin. He was being bulldozed but still had a ton of heart, though him contesting it was a premature stoppage seems a bit absurd seeing how his legs were jelly way after the count was made. Tremendous fight all the way and early foty candidate.

Eh. Cotto/Marg 1 was a great fight because Cotto actually controlled the first half of the fight and then things turned. Very dramatic. This fight, while exciting, is not at all a FOY candidate because, apart from 30 seconds at the end of the 5th round, there was no part of the fight that Juanma won. The drama in this fight was really about how long Juanma could stay on his feet before getting KO'd -- not who would win (judges' absolutely outrageous cards notwithstanding). Cotto is leagues better than Juanma.

Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

salido showed that he has a super human chin and i will greater than most men. he took alot of punishment from lopez. lopez not only connected with clean shots, but he also used his elbow, grabbed behind the head and pushed down on the back of salido's head whenever the opportunity presented itself.

how many fighters are gonna have the will and stamina to persevere that kind of aggression, the kind that juanma places on his opponents? not many.

juanma should be able to continue to be successful and grow as a fighter...assuming he hasn't been damaged by these two fights with salido. which is certainly possible. he may be mentally scarred as well as physically damaged by the beating he sustained.

salido took alot, but juanma got battered pretty badly in each fight.

hulk is right when comparing it to mosely v forrest. salido has his number... but there aren't too many fighters that are gonna walk thru juanma's punches the way salido has. twice. haha.

Actually Salido's chin isn't that great, he was floored twice by Gamboa, Haya, fair play Gamboa is explosive and can punch but i'd never heard of Haya in all honesty. And checking his record his power is nothing special yet he decked Salido twice.

But he did go 12 rounds with JMM without being put on the deck, which mean's obviously his chin can't be that bad. But i have seen him hurt and shook up quite a few times, and wouldn't say he has the chin you think he does.

Originally Posted by shza

Originally Posted by arcanum26

Great points. The fight reminded me of margo - cotto 1 for some reason, not just because of the puerto rico mexico rivalry, also the way the fight panned out with JML not getting the better out of a pressure fighter who has a solid chin. He was being bulldozed but still had a ton of heart, though him contesting it was a premature stoppage seems a bit absurd seeing how his legs were jelly way after the count was made. Tremendous fight all the way and early foty candidate.

Eh. Cotto/Marg 1 was a great fight because Cotto actually controlled the first half of the fight and then things turned. Very dramatic. This fight, while exciting, is not at all a FOY candidate because, apart from 30 seconds at the end of the 5th round, there was no part of the fight that Juanma won. The drama in this fight was really about how long Juanma could stay on his feet before getting KO'd -- not who would win (judges' absolutely outrageous cards notwithstanding). Cotto is leagues better than Juanma.

Yeah, should have said it SORT of reminded me of cotto marg fight. Cotto is def leagues better in boxing abilities than JML, but round 9 was a barnburner. More of a comparison based on that round alone than the entire fight, with Salido still being the fresher of the two after taking heavy punishment that late in the fight. Like you said, it was exciting and with Juanma's ability to turn the fight around with one punch, it was a fun fight while it lasted. I still think this is not the end of the road for JML in terms of fighting with ranked fighters. He's still relatively young and hopefully didn't get shopworn after yesterday's fight. Just stay away from Salido and pressure fighters who could take his shots and still come banging.

Originally Posted by armin

Decent fight but better not be foty cause it'll be a weak year, the last three were good but that's about it, the first seven were just average. Also don't think lopez took that big of a beating honesty, hell ortiz took bigger ones against maidana and berto, don't see nobody saying he's done and should retire. Juanma should work his defense and stamina and hell be able to still mix it up with some, not saying hell be a world beater but if he wants to keep going let him don't think he'd be a walk in the park for anyone...but in summation glad he lost again somewhat of an egotistical dick, specially after the he knocked down salido...

Ik but when Ortiz lost to maidana he had a cut over his eye which he realized couldn't see out off and did the right move and as for Berto? He was an undefeated champ so being knocked down by him and winning isn't emberrasing at all as for losing to Salido, while undefeated and he's had as many losses as he's had. There is no comparison.

Originally Posted by Abelardus

Originally Posted by armin

Decent fight but better not be foty cause it'll be a weak year, the last three were good but that's about it, the first seven were just average. Also don't think lopez took that big of a beating honesty, hell ortiz took bigger ones against maidana and berto, don't see nobody saying he's done and should retire. Juanma should work his defense and stamina and hell be able to still mix it up with some, not saying hell be a world beater but if he wants to keep going let him don't think he'd be a walk in the park for anyone...but in summation glad he lost again somewhat of an egotistical dick, specially after the he knocked down salido...

Ik but when Ortiz lost to maidana he had a cut over his eye which he realized couldn't see out off and did the right move and as for Berto? He was an undefeated champ so being knocked down by him and winning isn't emberrasing at all as for losing to Salido, while undefeated and he's had as many losses as he's had. There is no comparison.

I'm not talkin about being being cut or knocked down, and he did do the right thing by calling it quits against maidana, but it wasn't just a cut he took a beating

Originally Posted by armin

Originally Posted by Abelardus

Originally Posted by armin

Decent fight but better not be foty cause it'll be a weak year, the last three were good but that's about it, the first seven were just average. Also don't think lopez took that big of a beating honesty, hell ortiz took bigger ones against maidana and berto, don't see nobody saying he's done and should retire. Juanma should work his defense and stamina and hell be able to still mix it up with some, not saying hell be a world beater but if he wants to keep going let him don't think he'd be a walk in the park for anyone...but in summation glad he lost again somewhat of an egotistical dick, specially after the he knocked down salido...

Ik but when Ortiz lost to maidana he had a cut over his eye which he realized couldn't see out off and did the right move and as for Berto? He was an undefeated champ so being knocked down by him and winning isn't emberrasing at all as for losing to Salido, while undefeated and he's had as many losses as he's had. There is no comparison.

I'm not talkin about being being cut or knocked down, and he did do the right thing by calling it quits against maidana, but it wasn't just a cut he took a beating

But maidana was a top division fighter, not somebody people expect you to beat. Juanma isn't done if he fight other names then maybe avenges the losses soon. But other then that I don't see much coming from him.