Thread: Roy Jones of Antonio Tarver #1 vs. James Toney of Griffin #1

Right , the same version of Jones that "moved back down to 175".
What was the difference between Tarver #1 and Tarver #2 really ?
In which one did Tarver bet against himself ?

That toney would beat that Jones. Probably stop him.

Jones wins all the time

The reasons RJJ had trouble with Tarver in the first fight is that #1 he dropped serious weight to get back to 175 #2 Tarver put pressure on him. James Toney isn't one for pressure, and his style just allowed for RJJ to dictate the pace and action of the fight because he was always looking for counters.

Toney vs McClellan or Benn would have been awesome

Toney was 4 pressure more than Tarver ever was despite that Tarver did press Jones but that was in their rematch and Toney was not really a pressure fighter unless 1 was stationary enough 4 him .

Toney had 2 drop in weight 4 almost each 1 of his fights more than Jones had 2 drop in weight 4 Tarver #1 which was more than Jones had 2 drop in weight 4 Tarver #2 in which he got destroyed after all .
Yet Toney never got destroyed .


There r 2 reasons 2y Jones is wrongly considered superior 2 Toney :
1) Jones did better against their mutual opponents .
-- and that was because if u bother 2 check , u'll c that Jones was 1 year younger than Toney and
____ fought their mutual opponents which were usually older than both while they were even yet older than they were vs James .

2) Their actual fight .
-- which Toney had 2 drop 17 lbs in less than 24 hours and then regained them back due 2 his bulimia . Toney had trouble making 168 earlier than d Jones fight itself and was kept @ d weight due 2 his manager's , Jackie Kallen , will 2 cash out on him . That was d reason 4 d end of their friendly relationship and that was y he threatened her . Because she did throw a part of his career and legacy 2d toilet just 2 make some quick cash on his Xpense which is Y she kept him @ 160 , 168 and later even @ 175 4 2 long . If she really cared she would have tried helping him solve his bulimia or at least move him up d weights a bit quicker than she had . It would have spared d Reggie Johnson , David Tiberi , Roy Jones & Drake Thadzi fiascoes and would have brought bigger and better wins 4 him .

edit : Jones' management took a fight vs Toney , just because they knew of Toney's problems (mainly namely bulimia) .

Regarding Jones , he weighed in @ 193 lbs against Ruiz . This is Xactly or almost d fighting weight of most contemporary world class 175 lbers anyway so he never had 2 lose "18 lbs" of muscle like d fairy tale has it . Jones fought Ruiz @ his usual weight , maybe 3-4 more lbs of muscle . D vast majority of d difference between Ruiz 193 and d pre Ruiz 175 was d lack of dehydration pre fight due 2 his lack of need of making any weight limit .


I believe that under these nearly equaled conditions is that Toney either catches d really not drained Roy Jones @ some point and finishes him , or at least fights competitively 2d end (which is not far from how their actual fight went like anyway) .

Didn't Toney lose to Griffin?

i watched both of d Toney vs Griffin fights at least 5 times each , and while i haven't scored them yet i don't consider them as robberies but they could easily b scored as draws .
Toney didn't really lose 2 Griffin but Jones did and had 2 have Griffin rushed in2 d ring cold in order 2 catch him cold 4 that KO . So ? both men lost 2 Griffin on paper , but r matched against each other here and not against Griffin .

You are a bit bias, Jones battered Griffin twice and the first time he was cheated out of a victory.

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

i watched both of d Toney vs Griffin fights at least 5 times each , and while i haven't scored them yet i don't consider them as robberies but they could easily b scored as draws .
Toney didn't really lose 2 Griffin but Jones did and had 2 have Griffin rushed in2 d ring cold in order 2 catch him cold 4 that KO . So ? both men lost 2 Griffin on paper , but r matched against each other here and not against Griffin .

Rubbish. Roy had griffins number in both fights! Roy is on a different level to toney and griffin at that period in time and he proved that.

Originally Posted by imp

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

i watched both of d Toney vs Griffin fights at least 5 times each , and while i haven't scored them yet i don't consider them as robberies but they could easily b scored as draws .
Toney didn't really lose 2 Griffin but Jones did and had 2 have Griffin rushed in2 d ring cold in order 2 catch him cold 4 that KO . So ? both men lost 2 Griffin on paper , but r matched against each other here and not against Griffin .

Rubbish. Roy had griffins number in both fights! Roy is on a different level to toney and griffin at that period in time and he proved that.

Roy fought corpses whereas Toney & Griffin fought live opponents .
Roy proved nothing that u claim he had by fighting some of d same men James that Toney had fought , with d difference being that he was younger than Toney and fought those men who were usually older than Toney was years after Toney fought them .
He fought Toney because he knew Toney could not per4m normally while being unable 2 reasonably make d weight anymore , he cheated and got rightfully DQd vs Griffin in their 1st fight and then had Griffin rushed cold in2 d ring in their rematch 2 b able 2 KO him .

If it proves anything then it is only d significance of cagey management and promotional hype .

Jones' resume is really on par with Leonard's , Mayweather's , Calzaghe's and Eubank's more than u biased fanboys will ever accept . Fighting dead/dead dehydrated opponents does not equal fighting live healthy in shape prime 1s , but granted it yields d seemingly better results both on paper but especially on film . PPL should pay more attention 2d difference in ages and 2 stories such as inability 2 comfortable make d weight . These things heavily matter in a competitive sport .

Originally Posted by Master

You are a bit bias, Jones battered Griffin twice and the first time he was cheated out of a victory.

In d 1st fight Jones only started looking good against Griffin , Griffin took a knee and Jones landed a solid 1-2 while he was already down . Jones was initially awarded d victory by way of KO but minutes later Larry Hazard rightfully overturned d referee's verdict in2 a DQ win in favor of Griffin . I don't consider this cheating Jones out of a victory . In fact it is d 1st time that i c some1 claim this .

I d like d way y p.