For what he's accomplished so far in his career, where do you rate Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time heavyweights?

He's beaten a lot of very good fighters (Byrd X2, Haye, Ibragimov, Chagaev, etc.) but never a really great one.

But let's not forget, there are other heavyweights generally ranked among the all-time greats who don't have a prime, ATG HW on their resumes.

Wlad has taken many "0"s and stopped many durable opponents who had never been stopped before (Chambers, Chagaev, Thompson, Brock, Barrett, Castillo, Brewster, Shufford, Shultz, etc.).

Problem for Wlad is he's only as good as who he's fought.

As dominant as he is I can't put him in the top ten because he hasn't beaten any guys of that calibre... Maybe he could be, but the fighters aren't around to show it. Having him in the top 15 is pure speculation.

I have him around 20, again not because I doubt his ability... just the merit of his opponents, he's fought everybody, you have to give him that, but this era is weak.

if you put all of the hw champs in with each other from the last 100 years i have no doubt that a prime klit (or both prime klits) would be right up there

if you were to rate the same fighters on entertainment it would suprize me if wlad wasnt last and vital somewhere very close

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.

Good thread. I think Wlad is a magnificent athlete, a total pro who has brought respect to the division and he is a very skilled technical boxer. At 6'6", with his skills, he would have been a threat to any fighter who ever lived.

However, I wouldnt put him in the top ten, because,

- he is a bit chinny, and he sometimes fights like he knows it
- unfortunately for him, he hasnt had a serious rival or a defining fight (he has either won really easily, or lost quite easily. I'm sure he is brave and has heart but he hasnt been forced to show it much yet
- he does have a bit of a boring style.

I actually thing he is the better BOXER of the Klits, but his brother is the better FIGHTER

I voted 16-25. I think he falls just short of the very best men i.e. Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Louis, Lennox, Holmes and Evander. But them guys all have the advantage of Hindsight and we all see things rosier in the past.

Also the guys above had better rivals than Wlad. But to be honest I do think he would fall short of the very best, it's a shame he'll probably never fight another great HW.

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.

I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

Tony Thompson was a mandatory defense and Wlad didn't want to fight him again but he wasn't going to give up his belt for nothing.

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.

I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.

I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

The second fight was a mandatory defence though. There will be no market for a Wlad - Chisora fight after tonight. It'll be Arreola next and what's most saddening is he's probably most deserving right now.

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.

I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

The second fight was a mandatory defence though. There will be no market for a Wlad - Chisora fight after tonight. It'll be Arreola next and what's most saddening is he's probably most deserving right now.

David Haye's management is not so sure about your claim here, or otherwise it would have been scheduled for twelve rounds.

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Originally Posted by Rantcatrat

Originally Posted by GaydarbekStraight

Voted for the 16-25 option. All of his losses are unforgivable and inexcusable.
Wladimir K's supporters claim he was inexperienced then, but he had a gold medal and two years as a pro, and fought Puritty on his home turf.
Now suppose we do excuse it, do you guys honestly think that he was still inexperienced against Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster? do you really think he had improved since then?
At what department if so?
Holding, stalling and pushing down?
I don't regard any of his wins as a great win either, and it was his elder brother whom ended-up fighting Dereck Chisora. I hoped for that fight to come through, but no, Wladimir Klits skipped the man and never looked back since doing so. Tony Thompson really trumps Chisora, LOL. Wladimir basically preferred fighting an older version of the older man that he already beat, rather face a hungry, tough and willing to engage warrior-gangsta in Chisora. Not my cup of tea as a pick for a great heavyweight, sorry.

You put him in the 16-25 option of all-time heavyweights = he is a great heavyweight. With regard to Chisora, he loss to Tyson Fury, it would be very strange if Wlad dodged him. No offense.

Who are other heavyweights in history that have had as long of a dominant reign without facing top competition?

You gotta admit that Chisora was a helluva lot more deserving than Tony Thompson and far more proven.
Chisora fights the best, and dare I say, already surpassed Wladimir in terms of the quality of opponents that he faced.

I do understand those who voted for the yet lower tier than the tier I voted to, I might have made a mistake in my vote.

I wouldn't have considered Larry Holmes' or Joe Louis' oppositions as top quality, not on a permanent basis at least.
I mean they did fight a couple of good opponents here and there, but sucked eggs as they say if you look at their list of faced opponents overall compared to the list of their viable opponents during their respective reigns.
Thus and therefore, since I can see the flaws in other usually considered greats' resumes, I ranked Wladimir where I did, but I can see him being ranked in the tier below.
What is your opinion by the way?
I couldn't find your vote in the poll.

I'm undecided, but I probably agree with where you put him.

What is Chisora's best win? Sam Sexton? Are you alleging that Wladimir dodged Derrick Chisora? That seems a somewhat ridiculous allegation, right? In any event, Tony Thompson is a more accomplished heavyweight than Chisora. Wins over Timur Ibragimov (when they fought), Luan Krasniqui and Dominick Guinn are better than Sexton. He also has 2X more wins than Chisora has fights. However, let's not argue about it, when Wlad faced Thompson the first time, it was completely warranted, by the second time, not so much, but the division had been cleaned out, and the remaining, more deserved, fighters won't step up e.g. Alexander Povetkin. The Thompson fight was crap, but considering the options, it wasn't as wretched as made out to be.

Who do you want to see him face?

He shouldn't be ranked as high as the Sonny Liston's and the Ali's because his competition has been as good, but at the same time, it's not his fault either.

I thought that it was obvious from my post that I wanted to see him fight Chisora.
Anyway, I still want this fight to take place.
You know that Chisora's losses were all competitive and debatable.
In the eyes of some, Chisora won all of his fights up to Vitali and for that he deserved his title shot and still does.
That was the reason for that fight being marketable.
Because most realize that Chisora's losses are not real telling losses.
Alexander Povetkin wants no piece of Wladimir Klitschko.
He gave up his mandatory title shot after he won the IBF eliminations over Eddie Chambers. Remember?
What I meant was unwarranted was Thompson's second shot at Wladimir Klitschko's title, not the first one.
I meant that Wladimir should have fought Chisora rather than take on Thompson the second time, not the first.

The second fight was a mandatory defence though. There will be no market for a Wlad - Chisora fight after tonight. It'll be Arreola next and what's most saddening is he's probably most deserving right now.

David Haye's management is not so sure about your claim here, or otherwise it would have been scheduled for twelve rounds.

Oh right. Frank Warren the lying shit said it was the governing bodies who decided it was a ten rounder.

I think he beats Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, Marciano and alot of old school Heavies. I feel Holyfield, Ali, Holmes, Lewis and Vitali are the only ones who can beat him at this point. I really wish he would have fought Sanders again and righted the wrong.