Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.

Ali beat a 6'6" critter with a clutch and grab style like that of Wladmir's named Ernie Terrell whom Ali played with. A young Ali would move in and out against slow moving Frankenstein like Vitali and get a decision I think. But that's only my opinion and I may be wrong.

Having Valuev as the greatest is Franken Frank having a laugh. You are fun.

Originally Posted by Jody Lane

Originally Posted by roberto duran legend

Originally Posted by frankenfrank

Vitali would have been 2 much 4 Ali , Holmes and Louis but would have found prime Oliver McCall , prime George 4man 2 much 4 him . Now imagine what would have happened if he fought a trained and motivated SNV , d 1 that was never observed .

I do agree on Vitali > Ali , Holmes , Louis , "Dempsey" , Wladimir , Rocco and Jack Johnson , but McCall and 4man were real men , especially McCall .
I also believe that prime Bowe and Lewis could have posed a real test 4 Vitali . Lewis would have probably cheated like he did with Michael Grant . I wonder Y he didn't do d same with Vitali , but that was Lewis' last fight and he might have been 2 weak 2 repeat it .

Vitali is better than Ali,but not a prime McCall, Lordy Lordy,
i have heard it all now.

Ali beat a 6'6" critter with a clutch and grab style like that of Wladmir's named Ernie Terrell whom Ali played with. A young Ali would move in and out against slow moving Frankenstein like Vitali and get a decision I think. But that's only my opinion and I may be wrong.

If you watch Ali Vs Norton you'll see the real reason Ali lost was due to a game plan. I suppose if Ali a glaring weakness, it is that he did not like to come forward. He almost needs you to come to him so he can dance around you. That is precisely what Norton did NOT do.

Considering that with the fact that Vitali is taller and when he was younger he did throw a bit faster than he does not (no he is not nearly as fast as Ali) and the fact he has exceptional timing, you can argue with some confidence that the same result with ensue. He dodges punches pulling backward somewhat like RJJ though being a big tall heavyweight he can't do it with the quicksilver liquidity of Jones...

I've read and heard many times that Vitali is slow moving like someone fighting underwater, well If you watch the great Joe Louis and his exceptional footwork you'll see that he too was very deliberate and slow moving. Vitali moves slow but he controls the ring with very little movement. No wasted energy. Almost like a guitar player in the regards that you want to use the least amount of energy to get the result you want.

Long story short, at the end of the day it is all subjective. If Vitali would time travel and beat Ali 10 times out of time would it mean he's the best of all time or that he has the game plan and the style to beat Ali like Norton did, who knows...I don't.

I'll say this much with certainty. He is far better than his younger brother due to three attributes that his brother lacks or lacks in comparison; his chin, his stamina, and his timing. I dare say because of the very last one he is perhaps truly deserving of the title of one of the greatest.

Originally Posted by Master

Having Valuev as the greatest is Franken Frank having a laugh. You are fun.

my criteria is h2h , not resume .
had it been resume , Marion Wilson would have made my top 10 4 sure , and Valuev would have indeed gone out . Lewis' resume is not as impressing as much as ppl think either , BTW .
old & shot Evander , shot Tyson on anti depressants without enough warm up fights , McCall fresh out of rehab institute with withdrawal symptoms from crack , shot Ruddock , old , shot and never really good Mike Weaver , and d list goes on .

Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

I'm really glad you didn't change your username to bigstinkymuff. Your post gets the seal of approval 'futissima'.

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Some fair points , but you are also saying Vitali could beat film actor Dolph Lundgrin who played the fictional Ivan Drago ?

haha DLA I was thınkıng the same thıng--- Dolph would smoke hım ın 6.

i will probably have a bad english but you will understand me

first to begin with is todays boxing era, everyone thinks todays era is bad only because us media does not support it any more (since its moved to germany) and ofcourse, todays heavyweight are more or less slower than the ones from 70' and 80'... well its mostly because today average heavyweights are 20-40 kg heavier than the ones from 70', and to add, they have incomparably stronger punches, and can sustain damage that is unimaginable to boxers in 70'. so actually todays era is strongest era of all time, if we are speaking in reality and not like usa media, for them 70' are religion, and because of today there is no good black usa boxer in heavyweight they talk shit of todays era and switching an eye to UFC to big steroid guys that know shit about mma and just trowing punches hopefully to hit something, and everyone actually wanna just sit and eat popcornts and watch that amateur slaughering, they dont wanna see good boxing match like vitali - chisora.. usa media is still pumping mohammad ali like a god of boxing, but if he fought today he would probably be in light heavyweight or cruiserweight B-class boxer and noone would know about him.
lets now compare...
ali vs vitali
vitali was never knocked down or even dazed in a ring and he fought best punchers of all time (shannon briggs, lennox, peter samuel, everyone of them is 113-125 kg and have punches no boxer from 70' would sustain). on the other hand Ali was down with one punch against 75 kg henry cooper... i think that speaks all but lets continue... ali was powerpuff puncher he didnt even had 30% of KO's and he fought guys who would today looked like kids in ring, vitali has 90% KO biggest in history and he fought guys who had chin like hammer, ali cant actually hurt vitali... now lets go on boxing technique, there is two ali's; clasus clay and mohammad, clasus slay would hit once or twice from distance and then run away and do shuffeling, and win on points because he was pretty tall in 70' (1.91 cm) but he could not do that to vitali since he is 200, 202 cm in prime. and then mohamad ali, when he got heavier (not more 92 kg, now is probabl 97 kg woaaaa) he couldn move like butterfly anymore and was gassing out, so there is new thing... rope a dope, well he did win foreman on that but lets see, foremans technique is equal to 0 in that fight, it was like watching kid fighting, on the other hand would he sustained punches from vitali on ropes? i think not, and still, vitali can do ali's rope a dope in the middle of the ring without ropes. so mohammad ali has no reall chance against vitali.
vitali is too multidimensional fighter for anyone, in ring he has answer on everything, many tell that he is like wladimir, but vitali and wladimir are like moon and sun, only thing they have in common is that great body, and wladimir has no chin and cardio like vitali, vitali is 41 years old and has same tempo of punching throu 12 rounds, wladimir is too onedimensional, always doing the same thing and vitali on the other hand fights like cowboy, you never know what to expect and his arsenal of punches is much bigger than wladimirs... there will never be better boxer than vitali, no one ever dominated him and never will. vitali > tyson, lennox, briggs, hollyfield and especially >>>>>70' and the one who said lennox was better in fight has not seen the fight, even lennox trainer said vitali is the better of two and later switched to vitalis team, lennox is too afraid of vitali that he rather retired than gaved him a remach. tell me witch fighter you wanna compare, and i will give you best comparison, from career, technique, psihique and etc...

Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

*I'll argue this..and stand by it... i believe the greatest heavyweight of all time is ... VITALI KLISTSKO.

*Vitali is the only heavyweight in history to never trail in a fight. How is that? it's not luck..when ur the best, crazy stats appear..this is one.

*Vitali could easily be undefeated. He was waaaaay ahead when the Byrd happened... the guy tore his rotator cuff...
*in his fight with Lennox... IMO, Lennox was out on his feet.

Vitali is 25 pounds heavier than big George Forman was when he was terrorizing the heavyweight div in the 70's. For those who think Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Evander, could beat Vitali... i tell u this... and i can already tell this is a smart forum with smart fight fans in it... i tell u this... can u really see a guy who weighs under 215 pounds beating Vitali Klitsko... just picture that in ur head Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

LASTLY... if ur a fan of "rocky"like all true boxing fans are... when the "russian " character made, he was a force..bigger than life... a fiction of imagination... Well, i pick Vitai to beat him. Vitali looks bigger, stronger and would beat Drago as well...

bring it on... im ready for all comers!

Does this look like the face of the winner?

Originally Posted by bigstinkybug

Vitali is a beast. He's a heavyweight's worst nightmare... a 250 pounds guy who can go 15 rounds.

Vitali couldnt even last in to the 7th with Lewis!

Even the old tired version of Tyson who wasnt training lasted 2 rounds longer