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Thread: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

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    Default Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Myth 1: Plaster Of Paris was found in Margarito's gloves prior to the Mosely fight

    Completely false. TRACE elements of Calcium and Sulfar were found in Margarito's gauze.

    Quote:
    plaster of paris, quick-setting gypsum plaster consisting of a fine, white powder, calcium sulfate hemihydrate (see calcium), which hardens when moistened and allowed to dry. Plaster of paris is prepared by heating calcium sulfate dihydrate, or gypsum, to 120°–180° C (248°–356° F). With an additive to retard the set, it is called wall, or hard-wall, plaster.

    Neither Calcium or Sulfar are found in Plaster Of Paris, they are two separate compunds. Calcium Sulfate is what is needed for the making of PoP, which was NEVER found in Margarito's gloves, not even trace elements of it. Calcium, Sulfar, and Calcium Sulfate may sound incredibly similar, but anyone with a BASIC chemistry background knows better than this, very different compounds. So Margarito supposedly has Plaster of Paris in his gloves, yet doesn't even have an absolutely essential ingredient for making it?

    Myth 2: Plaster Of Paris can be used effectively for loading your gloves.

    This was debunked long ago when Cleveland Williams tested the theory that Dempsey's gloves were loaded:

    Were Dempsey's Gloves Loaded? You Decide!

    Quote:
    The Boxing Illustrated test proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the plaster of paris would not have held up after the first punch, it would have crumbled and left chunks in his mitts and every punch thereafter would have been quite painful and there is little doubt he would have broken his hands. The inventor of the product issued a statement as to the impossibility of using plaster of paris without breaking all the bones in the hands. Dempsey’s hands were not broken and he continued to punch with authority with both hands. This alone dispels the idea that Dempsey’s gloves were loaded with plaster of paris.

    Did you catch that? The manufacturer of PoP said it was completely impossible to use it in such a fashion, period. I challenge ANYONE here to go load their gloves with this substance, and go punch on a heavy bag. You have a good possibility of breaking your hand on the first punch, and it will quickly begin crumbling everywhere. Besides the fact that Plaster Of Paris DOES not hold up being used in this fashion, lets exercise some common sense. How in the hell would someone have a brick like substance sitting on their gloves for an entire fight, throwing 100+ punches a round, and not break their hands? The fighter they would be hitting would have an entire glove to protect them, the fighter using the substance has it on their bare hands, which would undoubtedly shatter their hands. Know why they use hand wraps? Because the hand is made of a multitude of tiny, brittle bones.

    Oh and before you try using the Luis Resto story, this was a guy who lied for 20 years, was broke, and got paid to make a sensational story. He took out padding from his gloves, the plaster of paris bullshit didn't come to fruition until he wanted to make a quick buck. The proof is in the pudding.

    Myth 3: There was a "brick" found in Margarito's gloves.

    Listen to Nazzim Richardson talk about how he found a "brick" in Margarito's gloves. Notice he also explicitly states that he made sure he saved the evidence.



    Here is what was actually found:

    http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_as...idence_bag.jpg

    Where is the brick? Exactly, there is none, just a bundle of gauze.

    Besides that fact, MARGARITO WAS SHAKING HANDS WITH COTTO AFTER THE FIGHT WITH HIS GLOVES OFF, you mean to tell me nobody fuckin noticed? There is always someone from the other team present in the wrapping of someone's hands, especially in a high profile fight too, case closed on that.

    Myth 4: Cotto's face is proof that Margarito's gloves were loaded up.

    Cotto after Margarito 1:

    http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1322711660

    Cotto during Pacquaio:

    http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Media/...o_Cotto6_G.jpg

    Looks like Pacquaio caused far more substantial damage to Cotto's face than Margarito did. The ignorant people love to talk about how there was no way Cotto's face could have looked like that against Margarito without loaded wraps, too bad Pacquiao did far worse. Are Manny's gloves loaded?

    Myth 5: His trainer already confessed to loading his wraps.

    Quote:
    His trainer confessed to what? Not loading the wraps, his trainer stated and this is on Cotto Margarito 2 24/7 episode 1, his trainer arrived late, did not have gauze with him used a set of used gauze that was already laying out on a table in the dressing room.

    He took responsibility for wrapping Margaritos hands and not checking the wraps thats all he admitted to, he didnt say he knowingly loaded his hand wraps he admitted he should have checked out those wraps prior to wrapping Margaritos hands.

    The District Attorney REFUSED to pursue a criminal case against Margarito

    After the wraps were sent to a lab, the District Attorney refused to pursue a criminal case. Why? BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PLASTER OF PARIS, the ingredients needed for the making of it were NEVER found, not even in trace elements. They claimed they caught him red handed with it in his wraps, that a "brick" fell out of his gloves, and you mean to tell me they don't pursue a criminal case? Oh and one more thing, THEY WOULD NOT ALLOW A 2nd INDEPENDENT EXAMINATION, which would have cleared Margarito without a doubt, HMMM

    The last pansy excuse to get out of the way is people using his performance against Mosely as justification. Number one, Mosley is kryptonite for a Margarito style, I don't care how good your chin is, you will crack taking haymakers from a guy like that incessantly. Margarito already had trouble making 147, and he had come in at 180 six weeks out from this fight, and drained down to make it. That is why he looked like shit, although guys like Mosely and Pacquaio would always have had Margarito's number.

    CASE CLOSED on this whole issue. This whole case is a prime example of what happens when you combine sensationalism, twisting of the facts, and a bunch of ignorant people who don't bother to do their own research. Continue to peddle the Margarito loaded gloves myth if you want, but the fact remains that he never loaded his gloves.

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    I remember reading this on another forum a year ago. Was that you posting under a different name? If not, you should have the common decency to source something if you're just going to copy and paste.

    Anyway, the case is far from closed, at least for me.

    As I understand it, nobody ever claimed he had Plaster of Paris in his glove. Supposedly it was a substance SIMILIAR to plaster of paris that hardened when exposed to oxygen. I'm FAR from a chemistry expert so what the physical difference is between the two substances, I don't know. But according to the guys who did the test, it wasn't plaster of paris but it did have the ability to harden.

    As far as actual PoP goes, I don't think ONE experiment completely dispels it's potential usefulness in the loading of a glove. The experiment would have been done with numerous assumptions dictating the conditions of the experiment (i.e: the placement of the plaster, the amount of plaster used, ect). It's very conceivable that adding of PoP has to be done a certain way (placement, amount, ect) in order to be effective and not encounter the undesirable effects listed in the experiment - a way that is known to those who choose to utilize that kind of thing. This is just speculation on my part, but I do know that ONE FAILED EXPERIMENT DOES NOT PROVE IMPOSSIBILITY. The conditions might just need to be changed.

    Then Capetillo began taping Margarito’s left hand, and Richardson asked if he could physically inspect the knuckle pad. Lohuis instructed Capetillo to pass the pad to Richardson. Naazim felt it and said that it seemed unusually hard. He then handed the pad to Lohuis, who agreed that it felt stiffer than is normally the case.

    CSAC inspector David Pereda, who was in the room, later testified, “Naazim opened the gauze and pulled something out of it. He showed us what appeared to be an old gauze which had been used before and hardened from perhaps being sweaty and wet many times.”

    Inspector Guevara testified, “It [the knuckle pad] was a clean new bandage. But within it, in the inner layers of it, was another bandage wrap. It was not as white as a new bandage wrap would be. It was used and it looked almost like it was sweat soaked and that’s what caused it to have the discoloration. It was harder in certain areas than it should be for pure gauze. It was definitely firm and hard. I believe there was a little bit of, it looked like old blood, on it.”

    Mike Bray (an inspector who entered the dressing room during the dispute) recalled, “I observed what appeared to be a blood stain on the corner of the pad. I also noticed that it was moist and dirty-looking. The pad had the appearance that it had been used before. After looking at the pad closer, I could see a white substance smeared across the face of the pad and into the gauze. I touched the white substance, and it was hard to touch. It looked like a cast plaster or maybe a thicker type of white out that you would put on paper.”



    By the way, it's very misleading to say they wouldn't allow a 2nd independant examination. No, they wouldn't allow Margarito's lawyer to use his own "expert" to analyze the inserts. That's not an independant examination: the "expert" would have been paid by Margarito. Why would they allow that? The commission is an independant, unbiased organization run by the federal government. What motive would they have had to fake a test against Margarito?

    Margarito's trainer testified that he mistakenly put the illegal gauze wrap on Marg's hands because he grabbed the wrong one out of his bag. So the question isn't whether or not Marg's gloves were loaded: THEY WERE.

    The only question is whether or not Margarito knew.

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Didnt De La Hoya and Trinidad use similar things? Screwed up tape or something that was placed berween the fingers?

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.
    3-Time SADDO PREDICTION COMP CHAMPION.

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.
    Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.

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    There's plenty of evidence going back to the Lujon fight. When you watch a fight you can gauge how hurt someone should be. Margarito is an arm puncher who only had good leverage on his uppercut. Fight after fight I questioned why is this guy so hurt. Any person who watches boxing enough gets a grasp for a guy breaking down. The Lujon fight was unnatural, the Cintron fight was unnatural, even the Paul Williams fight seemed wrong as it got later in the fight, Cotto didn't have a cut he was chopped up. Then there was the evidence of how absolute shit Margarito was after his weapons were taken away. He was garbage without his weapons.

    He's scum

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Quote Originally Posted by ross View Post
    Didnt De La Hoya and Trinidad use similar things? Screwed up tape or something that was placed berween the fingers?
    With Tito it was gauze direction not inserts and his gloves were signed off 39 times before using the same method. With Tito it was part of the whole flag thing and taking his head out of the fight.

    With Oscar Roach used to twist shipping tape, that clear stuff and I have no clue how they got away with actually using that as part of their wrap around.

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ross View Post
    Didnt De La Hoya and Trinidad use similar things? Screwed up tape or something that was placed berween the fingers?
    With Tito it was gauze direction not inserts and his gloves were signed off 39 times before using the same method. With Tito it was part of the whole flag thing and taking his head out of the fight.

    With Oscar Roach used to twist shipping tape, that clear stuff and I have no clue how they got away with actually using that as part of their wrap around.
    It was Oscar.

    The more you learn the more its just one upmanship. Drugs, faking samples, refusing tests, shaving gloves, taping gloves, loading wraps etc.....

    Its frustrating because the big name boxers will get a certain amount of leeway because they generate money.

    I dont believe he ever did but Mike Tyson was THE biggest gravy train. If he ever tested positive or was found to have anything in his gloves you can bet that whoever discovered it would think twice before saying anything. Mike doesnt fight... Thats millions for everyone down the pan. Even his opponent would probably turn a blind eye, on a career high payday.

    That was just an example of why certain people might be getting away with cheating.

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    He was definitely a different fighter after the the gloves and wrappings came under close scrutiny.

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.
    Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.
    I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

    How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.
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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "







    Yeah "no evidence"

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    It's the pads that they out over the knuckles that were juiced. Instead of being made with just gauze they were made with old gauze and plaster of paris powder. Sweat during the fight would have caused the stuff to harden the whole thing into a weapon.

    I'm still hoping the cheating cunt has to make a comeback and gets his brains scrambled properly.

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.

    100%. Personally I believe he did, but that's just speculation on my part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.
    Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.
    I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

    How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.
    Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
    Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
    How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!

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    Default Re: Breaking down Margarito's " Plaster Myth "

    Quote Originally Posted by beenKOed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenster View Post
    Whether or not Margarito knew about his "loaded" gloves, he didn't get to fight with them, so there's zero evidence that he ever fought a single contest with "loaded" gloves.
    Fair enough but it does not take some giant leap of faith or reason for that matter to think that if his gloves were attempted to be loaded with an old dog like Shane then they most certainly were for an undefeated Cotto in his prime. Its almost naive to think otherwise.
    I fully accept that it's possible the Mosley incident suggests that it wasn't the first time he had "loaded" gloves. However, as the counter argument in this Pro-Margarito thread showed, it's not even clear whether or not Margarito knew his gloves were "loaded."

    How did his trainer get away with "loading" his gloves for so long without being caught? He's had 47 fights. Had nobody ever seen his hands wrapped before? Now that's what you call naive.
    Naive? They did it a few times and got away with it, so it became SOP. Maybe those watching the hands being wrapped were naive, being honorable men, they didn't expect a cheating SOB to cheat in front of them.
    Naive? If you expect anyone to believe Margarito didn't know what was happening with his wraps and gloves , you are the naive one.
    How many times has Margarito wrapped his own hands? How many times has he watched his hands bring wrapped? How many times has he wrapped other fighters hands? How many times has he watched other fighters being wrapped? So fight nite comes and you don't think he would notice something different? That's bullshit, Sir!
    1. When I said "naive" I was referring to the inspection of his hands being wrapped in previous fights.

    2. It's bullshit that Margarito couldn't have known his gloves were "loaded," right? Well not according to many of the most famous trainers in the world, including Naazim Richardson.

    Dan Birmingham: “My guys watch me closely when I wrap. But what you’re talking about here happens pretty quickly. The pad goes on and then you put more gauze over it. So sure; it’s possible that the fighter wouldn’t know.”

    Pat Burns: “Some fighters don’t pay attention when their hands are being wrapped. They’re listening to music or talking to someone or watching a television monitor. And even if they’re watching, they’re not wondering what’s in the knuckle pad. If I wanted to put a few layers of hardened gauze inside a fighter’s knuckle pads, I could and the fighter would never know.”

    Freddie Roach: “If I did something like that, which I wouldn’t, I think I could do it without my fighter knowing. And if I was the fighter; Eddie Futch [who trained Roach] would never have done something like that. But if he had, I think he could have kept it secret from me.”

    Don Turner: “I wouldn’t do it. I don’t cheat. But if I wanted to, unless what I was putting into the knuckle pad was very heavy, I could do it in a way that the fighter wouldn’t know. Even if the fighter is watching me wrap, he might not know because he wouldn’t see or feel the difference.”

    Emanuel Steward: “My experience has been that a fighter watches very closely when his hands are being taped. But in a situation like this, it’s definitely possible that a trainer could put an insert in the knuckle pad without the fighter knowing. When I get in the dressing room before a fight, one of the first things I do is make two knuckle pads and put them on the table. I don’t put them in my bag. I leave them out on the table, and so does every other trainer I know of. So I have a hard time believing that Capetillo took the wrong knuckle pads out of his bag by mistake. But the fighter doesn’t watch me make the knuckle pads. A lot of times, the fighter isn’t even there when I make them. So the fighter wouldn’t know if I put something inside the pads unless I told him or the pads were heavy enough that he could feel a difference.”

    Naazim Richardson: “I’m the wrong person to ask about this. If a guy is driving a truck and tries to run my daughter over and misses, don’t ask me what the punishment should be. But to be fair, yes, a fighter might not know.”

    Don't shoot the messenger
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