Thread: sugar Ray Leonard would have KOed Floyd Jr.

Originally Posted by bradlee180

Floyd deserves credit for his most recent opponents since 2011 because they are good young top fighters, but his cherry-picking circa 2002-2010 was basically ridiculous.
In all my decades as a fan of this sport, I've NEVER seen ducking and cherry-picking taken to that level... and the Boxing establishment and fans allowed him to get away with it! Hatton is the sole top prime fighter Floyd stepped in with in those 8 years.

At Welterweight since 2005, I don't think Floyd was even the best in that one weight class let alone All-Time!

Paul Williams would have taken him as would Margarito, and I think Pacquiao too when he went to Welter in 2009. And Floyd wasn't interested in fighting Shane circa 2005-2008 when Shane was still good and in the Top 3, nah, Floyd waited till 2010 when Shane was 38 years old.

Even Joshua Clottey or Andre Berto would've been a step up for Floyd instead of spending his prime years 2005-2010 calling up little guys, boxing 2nd tier opponents instead of 1st tier, and guys that were past their prime.

Floyd is a defensive boxing master, perhaps the most technically skilled guy in Boxing right now, but it's too bad that he didn't have half the faith in his own abilities that his crazed fans did.

Recently, he's been fighting top young prime guys, a generation younger in fact, and deserves credit for that. And the dude has kept himself in razor-sharp condition all these years, that's dedication. Maybe he decided that legacy really does mean something to him instead of just the money because at this point, you have to go all the way back to the 2001 Corrales match for a signature fight for this guy. Other than that, where's the classic fights that's worth rewatching where the best fought the best?

Ok I'm gonna have to link you to a thread I made with DOCUMENTED PROOF that Floyd CONSISTENTLY called out top, elite guys for the better part of that decade.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...y-45-0-bs.html

Everybody loves to run their mouth and talk about Floyd like he ducked and dodged his whole career, but when I presented DOCUMENTED PROOF, cold-hard facts, video evidence, ect, all the Floyd haters were nowhere to be found.

Included:

-Video of him calling out Prince Naseem (when they were similar weight and Price was a top p4p guy), Casamayor, Frietas, Paul Spadafora, JLC, Kostya Tyszu (when he was the best, before he lost to Hatton), Shane Mosley and De La Hoya.

-Video of Shane putting the kabosh on any talk about fighting Mayweather

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Mosley out in '99 and 2006 (right after Mosley KO'd Vargas).

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Oscar De La Hoya out in 2003, where he offered to jump from 135 to 154 and fight him (a fight that DLH turned down).

What more could the guy do? Don't shit on Floyd for not fighting these guys, because they guys wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Floyd has no confidence in his abilities? He called out Oscar in 2003 (shortly before the Mosley loss) and offered to jump up THREE WEIGHTCLASSES to fight him. This isn't rumor, this is documented, complete with screenshot. Even Floyd's dad said it was suicide, but Floyd was willing to do it to make the fight happen. And DLH wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Fast forward 4 years when DLH finally decides to fight Mayweather and loses, and all of a sudden Floyd is a pussy for fighting DLH when he's old and washed up. It's nonsense.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by bradlee180

Floyd deserves credit for his most recent opponents since 2011 because they are good young top fighters, but his cherry-picking circa 2002-2010 was basically ridiculous.
In all my decades as a fan of this sport, I've NEVER seen ducking and cherry-picking taken to that level... and the Boxing establishment and fans allowed him to get away with it! Hatton is the sole top prime fighter Floyd stepped in with in those 8 years.

At Welterweight since 2005, I don't think Floyd was even the best in that one weight class let alone All-Time!

Paul Williams would have taken him as would Margarito, and I think Pacquiao too when he went to Welter in 2009. And Floyd wasn't interested in fighting Shane circa 2005-2008 when Shane was still good and in the Top 3, nah, Floyd waited till 2010 when Shane was 38 years old.

Even Joshua Clottey or Andre Berto would've been a step up for Floyd instead of spending his prime years 2005-2010 calling up little guys, boxing 2nd tier opponents instead of 1st tier, and guys that were past their prime.

Floyd is a defensive boxing master, perhaps the most technically skilled guy in Boxing right now, but it's too bad that he didn't have half the faith in his own abilities that his crazed fans did.

Recently, he's been fighting top young prime guys, a generation younger in fact, and deserves credit for that. And the dude has kept himself in razor-sharp condition all these years, that's dedication. Maybe he decided that legacy really does mean something to him instead of just the money because at this point, you have to go all the way back to the 2001 Corrales match for a signature fight for this guy. Other than that, where's the classic fights that's worth rewatching where the best fought the best?

Ok I'm gonna have to link you to a thread I made with DOCUMENTED PROOF that Floyd CONSISTENTLY called out top, elite guys for the better part of that decade.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...y-45-0-bs.html

Everybody loves to run their mouth and talk about Floyd like he ducked and dodged his whole career, but when I presented DOCUMENTED PROOF, cold-hard facts, video evidence, ect, all the Floyd haters were nowhere to be found.

Included:

-Video of him calling out Prince Naseem (when they were similar weight and Price was a top p4p guy), Casamayor, Frietas, Paul Spadafora, JLC, Kostya Tyszu (when he was the best, before he lost to Hatton), Shane Mosley and De La Hoya.

-Video of Shane putting the kabosh on any talk about fighting Mayweather

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Mosley out in '99 and 2006 (right after Mosley KO'd Vargas).

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Oscar De La Hoya out in 2003, where he offered to jump from 135 to 154 and fight him (a fight that DLH turned down).

What more could the guy do? Don't shit on Floyd for not fighting these guys, because they guys wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Floyd has no confidence in his abilities? He called out Oscar in 2003 (shortly before the Mosley loss) and offered to jump up THREE WEIGHTCLASSES to fight him. This isn't rumor, this is documented, complete with screenshot. Even Floyd's dad said it was suicide, but Floyd was willing to do it to make the fight happen. And DLH wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Fast forward 4 years when DLH finally decides to fight Mayweather and loses, and all of a sudden Floyd is a pussy for fighting DLH when he's old and washed up. It's nonsense.

just because you say you wanna fight someone doesn't mean anything. If he woulda signed the contracts and waited for the other side that's different. He said he wanted to fight Pacquiao too but never did he sign the contract. Daniel Geale said he wants to fight GGG but rejected the date first. I guess he's not ducking GGG either.

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

just because you say you wanna fight someone doesn't mean anything. If he woulda signed the contracts and waited for the other side that's different. He said he wanted to fight Pacquiao too but never did he sign the contract. Daniel Geale said he wants to fight GGG but rejected the date first. I guess he's not ducking GGG either.

I'll respond by quoting myself from the thread.

I'm sure someone will respond "yeah talk is cheap he never had any intention of fighting those guys." Ok, draw upon your knowledge of boxing history: has anyone ever publicly called out a guy that they wanted nothing to do with? NEVER. They either don't mention the person at all as to not draw attention to them, make excuses as to why they can't fight them, or make very non-commital statements like "we'll see how it goes" or "it's up to my promoter". Nobody ever calls out a guy by name that they want to avoid, that's just lunacy.

I'm not going to get into another Floyd/Pac "who's fault was it" debate. If people want to believe Floyd's a pussy, a faggot, is deathly afraid of Pacquaio and never had any intention on fighting him, that's what they're going to believe, whatever.

But you tell me what Floyd had to gain by publicly calling these guys out and not fighting them? Almost all of the guys he called out were bigger names than him at the time.

What people forget is that Floyd wasn't always Money May, the #1 guy in boxing. For a LONG time, he was an ultra-talented virtuoso with no name value, who couldn't draw flies to shit. He was the guy on the outside and he was calling these guys out because he desperately wanted a big money fight that would put him on the map. Why would a guy in that position be ducking and dodging the top guys? It makes absolutely no sense. You'd have to be a moron to believe that.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Ok I'm gonna have to link you to a thread I made with DOCUMENTED PROOF that Floyd CONSISTENTLY called out top, elite guys for the better part of that decade.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...y-45-0-bs.html

Everybody loves to run their mouth and talk about Floyd like he ducked and dodged his whole career, but when I presented DOCUMENTED PROOF, cold-hard facts, video evidence, ect, all the Floyd haters were nowhere to be found.

Included:

-Video of him calling out Prince Naseem (when they were similar weight and Price was a top p4p guy), Casamayor, Frietas, Paul Spadafora, JLC, Kostya Tyszu (when he was the best, before he lost to Hatton), Shane Mosley and De La Hoya.

-Video of Shane putting the kabosh on any talk about fighting Mayweather

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Mosley out in '99 and 2006 (right after Mosley KO'd Vargas).

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Oscar De La Hoya out in 2003, where he offered to jump from 135 to 154 and fight him (a fight that DLH turned down).

What more could the guy do? Don't shit on Floyd for not fighting these guys, because they guys wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Floyd has no confidence in his abilities? He called out Oscar in 2003 (shortly before the Mosley loss) and offered to jump up THREE WEIGHTCLASSES to fight him. This isn't rumor, this is documented, complete with screenshot. Even Floyd's dad said it was suicide, but Floyd was willing to do it to make the fight happen. And DLH wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Fast forward 4 years when DLH finally decides to fight Mayweather and loses, and all of a sudden Floyd is a pussy for fighting DLH when he's old and washed up. It's nonsense.

Floyd doesn't instill fear; all fighters would take the shot for the big payday.

What matters is that for 8 years, the most challenging match-ups for Floyd didn't happen.
Basically all of them were ripping each other apart circa 2002-2010; Floyd's the odd man out in the mix of the best prime fighters fighting the best prime fighters.

Obviously he was good, but he played with Boxing so long, we'll never know how good.
At 37 years old and past his prime with slower reflexes, he's still too much for current top prime fighters like Alvarez, Guerrero, and Ortiz, so that's saying something.

It seems he's going the Roy Jones route by fighting the toughest opponents only after he's past his own prime?

Beautiful training montage here by Pollodiablo.
Best to set the quality setting to 720 HD and full screen and turn the sound way up.
Fantastic. Fantastic fighters. Fantastic compilation by Pollodiablo. Migwech.

Originally Posted by Maravilla2012

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by bradlee180

Floyd deserves credit for his most recent opponents since 2011 because they are good young top fighters, but his cherry-picking circa 2002-2010 was basically ridiculous.
In all my decades as a fan of this sport, I've NEVER seen ducking and cherry-picking taken to that level... and the Boxing establishment and fans allowed him to get away with it! Hatton is the sole top prime fighter Floyd stepped in with in those 8 years.

At Welterweight since 2005, I don't think Floyd was even the best in that one weight class let alone All-Time!

Paul Williams would have taken him as would Margarito, and I think Pacquiao too when he went to Welter in 2009. And Floyd wasn't interested in fighting Shane circa 2005-2008 when Shane was still good and in the Top 3, nah, Floyd waited till 2010 when Shane was 38 years old.

Even Joshua Clottey or Andre Berto would've been a step up for Floyd instead of spending his prime years 2005-2010 calling up little guys, boxing 2nd tier opponents instead of 1st tier, and guys that were past their prime.

Floyd is a defensive boxing master, perhaps the most technically skilled guy in Boxing right now, but it's too bad that he didn't have half the faith in his own abilities that his crazed fans did.

Recently, he's been fighting top young prime guys, a generation younger in fact, and deserves credit for that. And the dude has kept himself in razor-sharp condition all these years, that's dedication. Maybe he decided that legacy really does mean something to him instead of just the money because at this point, you have to go all the way back to the 2001 Corrales match for a signature fight for this guy. Other than that, where's the classic fights that's worth rewatching where the best fought the best?

Ok I'm gonna have to link you to a thread I made with DOCUMENTED PROOF that Floyd CONSISTENTLY called out top, elite guys for the better part of that decade.

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...y-45-0-bs.html

Everybody loves to run their mouth and talk about Floyd like he ducked and dodged his whole career, but when I presented DOCUMENTED PROOF, cold-hard facts, video evidence, ect, all the Floyd haters were nowhere to be found.

Included:

-Video of him calling out Prince Naseem (when they were similar weight and Price was a top p4p guy), Casamayor, Frietas, Paul Spadafora, JLC, Kostya Tyszu (when he was the best, before he lost to Hatton), Shane Mosley and De La Hoya.

-Video of Shane putting the kabosh on any talk about fighting Mayweather

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Mosley out in '99 and 2006 (right after Mosley KO'd Vargas).

-Documented proof of Floyd calling Oscar De La Hoya out in 2003, where he offered to jump from 135 to 154 and fight him (a fight that DLH turned down).

What more could the guy do? Don't shit on Floyd for not fighting these guys, because they guys wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Floyd has no confidence in his abilities? He called out Oscar in 2003 (shortly before the Mosley loss) and offered to jump up THREE WEIGHTCLASSES to fight him. This isn't rumor, this is documented, complete with screenshot. Even Floyd's dad said it was suicide, but Floyd was willing to do it to make the fight happen. And DLH wouldn't get in the ring with him.

Fast forward 4 years when DLH finally decides to fight Mayweather and loses, and all of a sudden Floyd is a pussy for fighting DLH when he's old and washed up. It's nonsense.

just because you say you wanna fight someone doesn't mean anything. If he woulda signed the contracts and waited for the other side that's different. He said he wanted to fight Pacquiao too but never did he sign the contract. Daniel Geale said he wants to fight GGG but rejected the date first. I guess he's not ducking GGG either.

Ok, what should Floyd do if he DOES want to fight someone other than "calling them out" publicly.

I guess Pac calling Floyd out is sincere, right?

At 147 Leonard was the bigger man. Leonard was also the stronger puncher. That being said...Floyd's ring IQ and great defense would make this a very close fight. I just think Ray's natural size advantage to go along with his speed would be a bit too much at welterweight for Mayweather. Despite his great success at 147...Floyd's best weight was still at 130-140.

Pac needs to call out marquez.

No one should bring pac into this as he is still recovering from that devasting ko that he recieved..plus, he has an uninjured bradley to deal with.

I agree with "Bradlee" that floyd does not install fear in any opponent and once they realise they cant knock him out or hit him cleanly they all go into survival mode and get a lovely check.

Sometimes i think some of these pro boxers just want to say they fought mayweather and in years to come can say how they nearly had him?!

Thats why calzaghe never called out a prime roy jones regardless of weight.

Frank made sure he kept his mouth shut.

Floyd called out everyone but some seem to want to forget those times and just keep calling him chicken and bringing up a southpaw with 4-5 losses.

Originally Posted by Dia bando

SRL wipes the floor with Floyd, don't kid yourselves in the 80's Mayweather would be nothing
special, I could see him being KO by about 4 or 5 fighters.
Hearns would put Floyd in by by land, McCallum would have beat the shit out of him, remember
the best facing the best that's the 80's.

This is sad that the best do not fight the best now. What great welter has Floyd fought?

Originally Posted by imp

Thats why calzaghe never called out a prime roy jones regardless of weight.

Frank made sure he kept his mouth shut.

Floyd called out everyone but some seem to want to forget those times and just keep calling him chicken and bringing up a southpaw with 4-5 losses.

Come on man you know better then that. Cal never called out Jones because Cal was just starting to own the division when Roy was long gone to light heavyweight.

Leonard had issues with Benitez at a time when Wilfredo was on the road already to ruin with his partying. I think its fair to say that he would have had problems with Floyd. Leonard had problems with Benitez though not just because of his defensive wizardry but also because of his offensive ability. Thats probably the difference in the Floyd fight. Floyd is an extreme safety first fighter who would rather counter then anything else rarely taking it to the opponent. That works with the brawler/punchers of the world but I dont see it working with Ray. I dont see a ko but I do see a clear points win for Leonard.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by imp

Thats why calzaghe never called out a prime roy jones regardless of weight.

Frank made sure he kept his mouth shut.

Floyd called out everyone but some seem to want to forget those times and just keep calling him chicken and bringing up a southpaw with 4-5 losses.

Come on man you know better then that. Cal never called out Jones because Cal was just starting to own the division when Roy was long gone to light heavyweight.

I like to wind up dia bando..

RJJ runs everything prime for prime.

Back on topic, floyd called out everyone and beat everyone...

Bring on 50-0

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Leonard had issues with Benitez at a time when Wilfredo was on the road already to ruin with his partying. I think its fair to say that he would have had problems with Floyd. Leonard had problems with Benitez though not just because of his defensive wizardry but also because of his offensive ability. Thats probably the difference in the Floyd fight. Floyd is an extreme safety first fighter who would rather counter then anything else rarely taking it to the opponent. That works with the brawler/punchers of the world but I dont see it working with Ray. I dont see a ko but I do see a clear points win for Leonard.

I think this holds especially true for Floyd in the latter part of his career (safety first fighter)...especially at 147. But younger Floyd, at the lower weight classes, opened up nicely on offense (throwing combos) to go along with his tremendous defense and movement. Ray would be the favorite at 147...though i think it still would be a very good fight. I just think Floyd's absolute peak was/is not at welterweight.

Originally Posted by imp

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by imp

Thats why calzaghe never called out a prime roy jones regardless of weight.

Frank made sure he kept his mouth shut.

Floyd called out everyone but some seem to want to forget those times and just keep calling him chicken and bringing up a southpaw with 4-5 losses.

Come on man you know better then that. Cal never called out Jones because Cal was just starting to own the division when Roy was long gone to light heavyweight.

I like to wind up dia bando..

RJJ runs everything prime for prime.

Back on topic, floyd called out everyone and beat everyone...

Bring on 50-0

You nasty git.