Thread: Boxing can make the best case compared to other sports.......

BUMP

OOPS LOL

I guess we can take the complete ignorance of the video comparisons above and the sudden abandonment of the thread to signify we will require no further entertainment of this absurd idea anymore.

Myth busted!!

I could be wrong but I'm sure that if anyone has decided to make a case for an old timer, they'd usually prefix their argument with the acknowledgment that nutrition and training methods are very different.

Also, I'm not sure how a clear difference in training methods is equal to the differences in a mans natural ability to fight.

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

I could be wrong but I'm sure that if anyone has decided to make a case for an old timer, they'd usually prefix their argument with the acknowledgment that nutrition and training methods are very different.

Also, I'm not sure how a clear difference in training methods is equal to the differences in a mans natural ability to fight.

About as clear as it is how the difference in training methods is equal to the differences in a mans natural ability to play football, tennis, run and jump and just about everything else.

At birth they would be on a level playing field lb for lb. Except modern training and nutrition and modern opponents makes that differentiation more striking as the boxer grows.

Obviously!

I got no problem with any of those old guys. But they'd get completely smashed would they compete today no doubt.

Wow. That's actually like saying George Best didn't have the natural ability that Ryan Giggs has.

Utter nonsense.

No it isn't, it's saying they DO have the natural ability the same as the modern fighter but that natural ability alone does not make them a champion.

Fighting comes natural to some and they make the best natural boxers but "boxing" is anything but natural and proficiency only comes with endless hours, days and years of practice. No matter how good one is "naturally" they are not going to become a professional boxer unless they are trained like they are.

In the olden days it was perfectly acceptable to go for a jog, do some sparring and hit a bag for awhile in between ridiculous fight schedules. Unfortunately in todays landscape it takes a little bit more than that to be successful.

In fact, it take a LOT fucking more!

An old school elite fighter that has experienced 70 professional fights by the time he's 24 years old against all manners of styles(unprotected) is going to be a better fighter than a current 24 year old elite fighter with about 21 fights against hand-picked opposition(protected).

End of story.

Originally Posted by bradlee180

An old school elite fighter that has experienced 70 professional fights by the time he's 24 years old against all manners of styles(unprotected) is going to be a better fighter than a current 24 year old elite fighter with about 21 fights against hand-picked opposition(protected).

End of story.

Completely wrong and has been busted time and again.

An old school elite fighter with that many fights by that time is a number of things..

1/ Wasted and drained and damaged from improper recovery and management.

2/ Not as experienced as a modern boxer, not by a long shot!

Why

Because..

(a) Modern boxers have on average larger amateur careers and turn pro later these days, they are in fact more experienced by time they even start overall.

(b) The opponents those old school boxers faced were overwhelmingly bums. If you combine the total records of all their fights and compare them to the total records of modern boxers in general it becomes abundantly clear that their experience against quality opposition is sorely lacking by comparison.

(c) The professional circuit at journeyman level in the distant past was equivalent or even LESS in level than todays amateur ranks, meaning that experience today is worth far more than it was back then.

(d) Because of the excessive fight schedules of olden days boxers, modern fighters have the time not just for recovery but for better skills and conditioning preparation and far more sparring experience in the interim period with intensive coaching filling the void between fights highly productively.

The article "Past fighters were 15 rounders, Past fighters fought more often" completely debunks this myth further.

And your last comment was just absurd. That they would be better than a "protected" modern fighter, HA!

The opponents that top contenders fight today are FAR more highly matched than in the past! And furthermore a fighter only affords himself the kind of "protection" that allows him to inflate his rankings after he has already established himself a top prospect. And unlike in the past, where if a top boxer lost a ton of fights they could still be considered an elite boxer whereas today, even a couple of losses can seriously damage a boxers credibility in this highly competitive landscape.

I wonder why that is? Because the competition is highly competitive! Past eras fought mainly bum fights! And that's a fact!

If you would like an overview of a fighter from the past who has been heavily hyped as the greatest of his division all time but in reality fought lack lustre competition, read carefully the breakdown of the opponents in the eye opening article... Muhammad Ali's opponents in the eyes of modern fans -OR- Ali's bum of the month club.

Muhammad Ali's opponents in the eyes of modern fans -OR- Ali's bum of the month club | Box statistics, analysis of boxing history records, stats of boxing eras

For what its worth, is happily argue for the opinion that Ali is I've of the most readily overrated fighters in boxing history.

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

For what its worth, is happily argue for the opinion that Ali is I've of the most readily overrated fighters in boxing history.

Yes Ali is one of the main offenders to be sure but you will find in general that the further back in time we go, the more overrated the boxers in general and conversely the closer we get to the present the more underrated they become!!

In general of course!

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

Wow. That's actually like saying George Best didn't have the natural ability that Ryan Giggs has.

Utter nonsense.

if george best was born when ryan giggs was and lived like ryan giggs then he would be a massive superstar

Things are so different now bests career would have probably have been even shorter due to his life style as the competition is so much more great

Brazil 70, considered the best world cup winning team in history, woudnt qualify today

Originally Posted by Max Power

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

For what its worth, is happily argue for the opinion that Ali is I've of the most readily overrated fighters in boxing history.

Yes Ali is one of the main offenders to be sure but you will find in general that the further back in time we go, the more overrated the boxers in general and conversely the closer we get to the present the more underrated they become!!

In general of course!

I'm not an Ali fan, but Ali had the guts to step in and fight 'em all, unlike Floyd Mayweather. One talked the talk and walked the walk while the other talked the talk and, well, y'know...

Originally Posted by bradlee180

Originally Posted by Max Power

Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus

For what its worth, is happily argue for the opinion that Ali is I've of the most readily overrated fighters in boxing history.

Yes Ali is one of the main offenders to be sure but you will find in general that the further back in time we go, the more overrated the boxers in general and conversely the closer we get to the present the more underrated they become!!

In general of course!

I'm not an Ali fan, but Ali had the guts to step in and fight 'em all, unlike Floyd Mayweather. One talked the talk and walked the walk while the other talked the talk and, well, y'know...

And that's a point I will give you Bradlee, Ali fought all opposition and didn't duck anybody and Floyd Mayweather is probably the most shameful ducker of all time by comparison.

I don't think Ali's actions here speak for all old schoolers and I don't think Mayweather's cowardly antics speak for the entirety of boxing.

Where individual modern fighters are lacking I would criticise. Where individual old timers deserve credit I would appraise accordingly.