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Thread: Lets talk running...

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  1. #16
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    Too hit and not get hit IS the key but does anyone do it a bit toooo much?

    Surely for the last championship rounds in the biggest fight of his life Lara could have pushed the boat out a bit..or did he play it to safe?

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maravilla2012 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Look this running crap is over the top. Boxers and technicians are penalized for using boxing and technique while plodding neanderthals get points for plodding forward. Thats junk science not sweet science. You dont have to sit and trade in a phone booth. They have a ring to use it and the idea is to hit and not get it and that entails using the damn ring. I swear to god that this sport is devolving at a rate that is unprecedented.

    Bring out the freakin togas
    Preach on. The supposed boxing fan of today should quit pretending, skip the matches and go to a cock fight.
    I agree with you guys. The best boxers with the best skill get shunned while fighters who lose to eat punches like Provo and Rios get all the credit. Bullshit. I appreciate a good war but what Lara and Floyd and Rigo do is what boxing is. Hit and don't get hit.
    Provo deserves better than to be lumped in with a guy who goes out of his way to "love being hit" and was gifted against the same style that Provo shouldered losses against, minus the bs favoritism of promotion. Not to mention he actually trains and makes weight

    I don't think Lara 'runs'. He fights in spots, he looks like a cutey/spoiler.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by imp View Post
    Too hit and not get hit IS the key but does anyone do it a bit toooo much?

    Surely for the last championship rounds in the biggest fight of his life Lara could have pushed the boat out a bit..or did he play it to safe?
    For the networks and deserved payday? Rigo, who is being blackballed and forced to fight on f'n Unimas next out.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Did Lara really expect to beat boxing's next Golden Boy by landing 107 punches and running away all night? Did he really think that he could take 3 rounds off and just straight run away and get rewarded for it?

    Lara is the kind of fighter who thinks he's better than everyone else. He believes it when people tell him what a spectacular pure boxer he is, and about how much more talented and gifted he is. The truth is his fights are often lack lustre because he doesn't think he has to push himself. He seems to get bored or lazy in the ring thinking that he's schooling his opponents and then he just coasts or sleep walks through rounds expecting to win.

    Only a fool would have thought that that performance was good enough to have the judges go against boxing biggest rising star.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Did Lara really expect to beat boxing's next Golden Boy by landing 107 punches and running away all night? Did he really think that he could take 3 rounds off and just straight run away and get rewarded for it?

    Lara is the kind of fighter who thinks he's better than everyone else. He believes it when people tell him what a spectacular pure boxer he is, and about how much more talented and gifted he is. The truth is his fights are often lack lustre because he doesn't think he has to push himself. He seems to get bored or lazy in the ring thinking that he's schooling his opponents and then he just coasts or sleep walks through rounds expecting to win.

    Only a fool would have thought that that performance was good enough to have the judges go against boxing biggest rising star.
    He still landed more than Canelo

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Lets talk running...


  7. #22
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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    It isn't pretty, but it's a skill. Not everyone can fight like an astronaut piloting a rocket ship to the moon. You use what you have to get the job done over 12 rounds. Some fighters do this defensively, it is just a fact of life. It's not pretty, but you cannot just say 'He's running, man! No points this round for him!'. It's juvenile.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by IamInuit View Post
    Good video.

    Politics and sports is a toxic mix. Canelo's attitude also sucks. If he wants to be in a streetfight, then have one, but in boxing you face styles and a defensive style does not deserve to lose based on being defensive and some political edict that you must land 30% more or score a KO. It's bullshit and 117-111 is flat out nonsense. There should really be an immediate rematch. If not then fans should wave those pictures of Oscar banner size at every Golden Boy event.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    I get the point many of you are trying to make, but isn't there a limit? My problem with Lara was that he frequently threw a jab or two punch combo, retreated all the way to the other side of the ring, threw a jab, circled to the far side again, threw a jab or two, etc. Is it truly necessary to move quite so far in order to "not get hit"? It's tantamount to one of the gimmicks in pro wrestling where the heel will wait outside the ring until the good guy comes over, run around to the other side, roll in and out immediately, run around to the other side, etc. It's a farce. I'm sorry, but that takes very little skill and for me does not qualify as defensive wizardry, or "sweet science." Lara has a lot more skill than what he showed last night.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Sure, it isn't fun to watch, but if boxing is about hit and not be hit, then Lara did a better job than Canelo. It's not my idea of a fun time at all, but that's where the man who wins the fight then goes on to find that he can never really build a fan base. That is then about commerce. You deserve to win the fight as you technically did, but the fans will then respond by saying 'You don't deserve my support as you didn't give me what I want'. My point is simply that you cannot penalise the fighter for not being fan friendly in that particular fight. There is no scoring criteria for being 'fun'. Let the market dictate what happens to the fighter, but don't ever take away a fighters win as he was simply doing what he could to win and wasn't cheating or breaking the rules.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by bcollins View Post
    I get the point many of you are trying to make, but isn't there a limit? My problem with Lara was that he frequently threw a jab or two punch combo, retreated all the way to the other side of the ring, threw a jab, circled to the far side again, threw a jab or two, etc. Is it truly necessary to move quite so far in order to "not get hit"? It's tantamount to one of the gimmicks in pro wrestling where the heel will wait outside the ring until the good guy comes over, run around to the other side, roll in and out immediately, run around to the other side, etc. It's a farce. I'm sorry, but that takes very little skill and for me does not qualify as defensive wizardry, or "sweet science." Lara has a lot more skill than what he showed last night.

    Did you happen to see Lara's fight with Trout? I have it on file as a sleep aid. That is because they are both southpaws and fight behind the shoulder in a wide stance inclined to wait and counter while working and enticing off the jab. It was Lara vs Lara. They are not Floyd but they feed in the same area. He's not all of a sudden going to drop how he fights and meet Alvarez face first in the pocket to satisfy a segment of the audience that is only concerned with highlight reels. Lara does not come forward. That is not how he fights. You dont get points for coming forward nor is that on its own effective aggression and standing in the telephone both and banging with a banger is neither intelligent or ring generalship. There is a reason for that squared circle.

    It does not matter my friend whether its pretty or not and again if people dont want them to use the ring then lobby for it to shrink. I mean why do they need 20 square feet for when you could front the thing in a doorway? Again its not the decision that frustrates me. Its how it was arrived at. I mean there are swing rounds but there is also using swing rounds as an excuse for bad cards. Had it went the other way people would have said that Alvarez just couldn't get to him and Lara employed a great punch and get out strategy when in fact a 117/111 card for Lara would have been as equally absurd.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Sure, it isn't fun to watch, but if boxing is about hit and not be hit, then Lara did a better job than Canelo. It's not my idea of a fun time at all, but that's where the man who wins the fight then goes on to find that he can never really build a fan base. That is then about commerce. You deserve to win the fight as you technically did, but the fans will then respond by saying 'You don't deserve my support as you didn't give me what I want'. My point is simply that you cannot penalise the fighter for not being fan friendly in that particular fight. There is no scoring criteria for being 'fun'. Let the market dictate what happens to the fighter, but don't ever take away a fighters win as he was simply doing what he could to win and wasn't cheating or breaking the rules.
    Can a judge simply not interpret all this "not fan friendly behaviour"(as you call it), as a reluctance to fight while the other fighter is trying very hard to engage in a fight? What Chris Algieri did was far more skilled compared to what we saw Lara doing. He avoided being hit and hit in return. Algieri scored 83 more punches than Provodnikov. This shows that both his defense as well as offense were very effective. Lara out landed Canelo by 10 punches. Clearly Lara did more running to avoid Canelo and had less effective defensive aggression....which is the hit and not get hit comes from.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Well it depends is it effective to land a jab and take a body shot which probably was just effective it not more and then run to other side of the ring. I mean it is kind of a hard thing to score because the rounds are close there were hardly any clear rounds. i mean how clear are rounds to you guys i haven't even seen a fucking score card really from people outrage. I mean if you think there weren't a shit ton of rounds in this fight that could go either way your nuts. I mean the one score card is so crazy but when you have a fight that has so many swing rounds not that surprising i mean are you guys saying Canelo did not deserve it. I feel he did enough and a draw would be not out question so i do not think this is a big deal is. If you are outrage at least give a card round by round and say that think he clearly won other wise what is your point then.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Sure, it isn't fun to watch, but if boxing is about hit and not be hit, then Lara did a better job than Canelo. It's not my idea of a fun time at all, but that's where the man who wins the fight then goes on to find that he can never really build a fan base. That is then about commerce. You deserve to win the fight as you technically did, but the fans will then respond by saying 'You don't deserve my support as you didn't give me what I want'. My point is simply that you cannot penalise the fighter for not being fan friendly in that particular fight. There is no scoring criteria for being 'fun'. Let the market dictate what happens to the fighter, but don't ever take away a fighters win as he was simply doing what he could to win and wasn't cheating or breaking the rules.
    Can a judge simply not interpret all this "not fan friendly behaviour"(as you call it), as a reluctance to fight while the other fighter is trying very hard to engage in a fight? What Chris Algieri did was far more skilled compared to what we saw Lara doing. He avoided being hit and hit in return. Algieri scored 83 more punches than Provodnikov. This shows that both his defense as well as offense were very effective. Lara out landed Canelo by 10 punches. Clearly Lara did more running to avoid Canelo and had less effective defensive aggression....which is the hit and not get hit comes from.
    There are no rules saying that you need to stand in front of your opponent, so whilst you might want to penalise for negative behaviour, you shouldn't as it is a legal strategy, and as long as you are outlanding your opponent and landing at a greater connection rate, then you are winning the fight. Lara did what he was supposed to do which was hit and not get hit and overall, he was more successful at this than Canelo.

    Having said that, I don't enjoy watching that kind of style a great deal, but if you are a come forward fighter then it is your duty to cut that ring off and make sure you outland your opponent, but Canelo couldn't. It is your job to take the fight away from your opponent and stop him doing what he wants. Canelo did that reasonably in the middle rounds, but that was it. If Canelo was better then Lara wouldn't have been allowed to breath and outland him.

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    Default Re: Lets talk running...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ruthless rocco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Sure, it isn't fun to watch, but if boxing is about hit and not be hit, then Lara did a better job than Canelo. It's not my idea of a fun time at all, but that's where the man who wins the fight then goes on to find that he can never really build a fan base. That is then about commerce. You deserve to win the fight as you technically did, but the fans will then respond by saying 'You don't deserve my support as you didn't give me what I want'. My point is simply that you cannot penalise the fighter for not being fan friendly in that particular fight. There is no scoring criteria for being 'fun'. Let the market dictate what happens to the fighter, but don't ever take away a fighters win as he was simply doing what he could to win and wasn't cheating or breaking the rules.
    Can a judge simply not interpret all this "not fan friendly behaviour"(as you call it), as a reluctance to fight while the other fighter is trying very hard to engage in a fight? What Chris Algieri did was far more skilled compared to what we saw Lara doing. He avoided being hit and hit in return. Algieri scored 83 more punches than Provodnikov. This shows that both his defense as well as offense were very effective. Lara out landed Canelo by 10 punches. Clearly Lara did more running to avoid Canelo and had less effective defensive aggression....which is the hit and not get hit comes from.
    There are no rules saying that you need to stand in front of your opponent, so whilst you might want to penalise for negative behaviour, you shouldn't as it is a legal strategy, and as long as you are outlanding your opponent and landing at a greater connection rate, then you are winning the fight. Lara did what he was supposed to do which was hit and not get hit and overall, he was more successful at this than Canelo.

    Having said that, I don't enjoy watching that kind of style a great deal, but if you are a come forward fighter then it is your duty to cut that ring off and make sure you outland your opponent, but Canelo couldn't. It is your job to take the fight away from your opponent and stop him doing what he wants. Canelo did that reasonably in the middle rounds, but that was it. If Canelo was better then Lara wouldn't have been allowed to breath and outland him.
    I'm not saying Lara should have been penalized for his little jabs followed by running. I'm suggesting that it may make his efforts seem less substantial compared to the fighter who is constantly stalking and trying to land substantial punches and who is dictating the pace of the fight.

    What was the punch stat break down? How many jabs to power punches connected by each fighter? I put more stock in 3 solid body blows over three light jabs with a 50 meter dash inbetween. How many pussy jabs did Lara land? I bet it was more than 10 which was the difference in punches landed. Which is basically the end of your argument that Lara landed more.




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    Last edited by ruthless rocco; 07-14-2014 at 08:19 AM.

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