Thread: Who is the next boxing superstar?

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by ross

His personality is also too bland.

It's BOXING not professional wrestling I don't personally give 1 single fuck about if someone is entertaining in interviews or whatever as long as they are good in the ring!

Anthony Joshua is a little stiff, he'll have to watch his stamina with his style.

Of course his ability is too bland. And it isn't Professional Wrasslin', but a little charisma would do wonders for your pockets- as well as flare.

That flare and charisma shows confidence. That confidence shows in and out of the ring. Draws people to you to a large degree.

He certainly won't win over heaps and heaps of fans as the title of this thread is asking for the next SUPERSTAR. Real!

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by ross

His personality is also too bland.

It's BOXING not professional wrestling I don't personally give 1 single fuck about if someone is entertaining in interviews or whatever as long as they are good in the ring!

Anthony Joshua is a little stiff, he'll have to watch his stamina with his style.

You have to be able to sell a fight.

Look at the difference between Andre Ward and Carl Froch. Ward is the better boxer but Froch has the audiences and purses.

How about we just get a guy who can perform in the ring and judge him on that? They don't need to cut promos and be a cult of personality. I'm a boxing fan, I care about the ability a boxer shows rather than how he does during an interview. I support fighters not infomercial salesmen!

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by tysonesque

The young, dedicated and focused 80s Tyson is a completely different proposition.

You mean the Tyson that was fighting such dangerous foes as Mike Jameson, David Jaco, Sammy Scaff, Marvis Frazier, and Steve Zouski?

Oh dear.

Hell, let's throw Tyson's amateur opponents in there as well shall we? How far back in time are going? What about before he started boxing? He hadn't beaten anyone then!

I was (obviously) thinking of the Tyson who beat everyone he fought, including Holmes, Spinks, Biggs etc etc. But no, let's judge him on the guys he fought as an up and coming novice. That always how fighters are judged.

I mean that Ali guy was good, but who did he beat in his first ten fights? Overrated fraud!

Originally Posted by Master

Saul Alvarez

Well... the question says "next".
Technically, Canelo was already handed that title back.... what.... 40 fights ago?

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by ross

His personality is also too bland.

It's BOXING not professional wrestling I don't personally give 1 single fuck about if someone is entertaining in interviews or whatever as long as they are good in the ring!

Anthony Joshua is a little stiff, he'll have to watch his stamina with his style.

Of course his ability is too bland. And it isn't Professional Wrasslin', but a little charisma would do wonders for your pockets- as well as flare.

That flare and charisma shows confidence. That confidence shows in and out of the ring. Draws people to you to a large degree.

He certainly won't win over heaps and heaps of fans as the title of this thread is asking for the next SUPERSTAR. Real!

Utter bullshit

Joshua fought in Glasgow a few months back and the noise as he walked to the ring was amazing as if he were the home fighter.
That very rarely happens to an English fighter.
Everybody in the UK knows his face from the London Olympics and people genuinely like him.
What he's done so far in the ring is highly entertaining as he's battered everyone he's faced in style.

I've said since he won the gold medal that if he can take a punch then boxing and England has a new Superstar.

Crawford-Mikey Garcia winner would hold some clout maybe one of these young Jr-Middles like Julian Williams or Errol Spence

Originally Posted by tysonesque

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by tysonesque

The young, dedicated and focused 80s Tyson is a completely different proposition.

You mean the Tyson that was fighting such dangerous foes as Mike Jameson, David Jaco, Sammy Scaff, Marvis Frazier, and Steve Zouski?

Oh dear.

Hell, let's throw Tyson's amateur opponents in there as well shall we? How far back in time are going? What about before he started boxing? He hadn't beaten anyone then!

I was (obviously) thinking of the Tyson who beat everyone he fought, including Holmes, Spinks, Biggs etc etc. But no, let's judge him on the guys he fought as an up and coming novice. That always how fighters are judged.

I mean that Ali guy was good, but who did he beat in his first ten fights? Overrated fraud!

Can you expound on the "etc., etc.," I challenge you or anyone else on this forum to name elite, HOF level fighters that Tyson beat. Look at the three you named: Holmes was past his best and fighting without a tune up, Spinks who was a great light heavy but undersized at heavy n had beaten 3 other guys at the weight, and BIGGS. Tyrell Biggs?!? Here's a clue: when you are standing up for a guy's quality of opposition and you have to include Tyrell Biggs as one of his top 3 wins, don't send that post. I like Mike Tyson and I think he gets treated unfairly regarding his personal life, but zit is just a known fact that Mike feasted on a pathetic division. He never beat a prime fighter on the level of Evander, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad...etc.

Originally Posted by smashup

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by ross

His personality is also too bland.

It's BOXING not professional wrestling I don't personally give 1 single fuck about if someone is entertaining in interviews or whatever as long as they are good in the ring!

Anthony Joshua is a little stiff, he'll have to watch his stamina with his style.

Of course his ability is too bland. And it isn't Professional Wrasslin', but a little charisma would do wonders for your pockets- as well as flare.

That flare and charisma shows confidence. That confidence shows in and out of the ring. Draws people to you to a large degree.

He certainly won't win over heaps and heaps of fans as the title of this thread is asking for the next SUPERSTAR. Real!

Utter bullshit

Joshua fought in Glasgow a few months back and the noise as he walked to the ring was amazing as if he were the home fighter.
That very rarely happens to an English fighter.
Everybody in the UK knows his face from the London Olympics and people genuinely like him.
What he's done so far in the ring is highly entertaining as he's battered everyone he's faced in style.

I've said since he won the gold medal that if he can take a punch then boxing and England has a new Superstar.

England also used to cheer Gavin Rees... and are in love with Frampton and Quigg. They do not cross-over to the international community. Calzaghe, for as good as he was, didn't cross over to international appeal.

You have the lowest expectations and ideas of a Superstar.

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Originally Posted by tysonesque

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by tysonesque

The young, dedicated and focused 80s Tyson is a completely different proposition.

You mean the Tyson that was fighting such dangerous foes as Mike Jameson, David Jaco, Sammy Scaff, Marvis Frazier, and Steve Zouski?

Oh dear.

Hell, let's throw Tyson's amateur opponents in there as well shall we? How far back in time are going? What about before he started boxing? He hadn't beaten anyone then!

I was (obviously) thinking of the Tyson who beat everyone he fought, including Holmes, Spinks, Biggs etc etc. But no, let's judge him on the guys he fought as an up and coming novice. That always how fighters are judged.

I mean that Ali guy was good, but who did he beat in his first ten fights? Overrated fraud!

Can you expound on the "etc., etc.," I challenge you or anyone else on this forum to name elite, HOF level fighters that Tyson beat. Look at the three you named: Holmes was past his best and fighting without a tune up, Spinks who was a great light heavy but undersized at heavy n had beaten 3 other guys at the weight, and BIGGS. Tyrell Biggs?!? Here's a clue: when you are standing up for a guy's quality of opposition and you have to include Tyrell Biggs as one of his top 3 wins, don't send that post. I like Mike Tyson and I think he gets treated unfairly regarding his personal life, but zit is just a known fact that Mike feasted on a pathetic division. He never beat a prime fighter on the level of Evander, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad...etc.

I know you say you are a Tyson fan and yet again I say to you he can only beat what is in front of him. What he did was smash these fighters and the way he beat them indicates that even a prime Holyfield (whenever that was), Wlad, Vlad, Lewis ect would at least been beaten. It was the way he did it, people can count on one hand the times he was hit hard. He was a superstar for a reason.

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Originally Posted by tysonesque

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by tysonesque

The young, dedicated and focused 80s Tyson is a completely different proposition.

You mean the Tyson that was fighting such dangerous foes as Mike Jameson, David Jaco, Sammy Scaff, Marvis Frazier, and Steve Zouski?

Oh dear.

Hell, let's throw Tyson's amateur opponents in there as well shall we? How far back in time are going? What about before he started boxing? He hadn't beaten anyone then!

I was (obviously) thinking of the Tyson who beat everyone he fought, including Holmes, Spinks, Biggs etc etc. But no, let's judge him on the guys he fought as an up and coming novice. That always how fighters are judged.

I mean that Ali guy was good, but who did he beat in his first ten fights? Overrated fraud!

Can you expound on the "etc., etc.," I challenge you or anyone else on this forum to name elite, HOF level fighters that Tyson beat. Look at the three you named: Holmes was past his best and fighting without a tune up, Spinks who was a great light heavy but undersized at heavy n had beaten 3 other guys at the weight, and BIGGS. Tyrell Biggs?!? Here's a clue: when you are standing up for a guy's quality of opposition and you have to include Tyrell Biggs as one of his top 3 wins, don't send that post. I like Mike Tyson and I think he gets treated unfairly regarding his personal life, but zit is just a known fact that Mike feasted on a pathetic division. He never beat a prime fighter on the level of Evander, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad...etc.

You could easily pick holes over who they beat.

Which elite HOF fighters did Lewis beat? He drew with Holyfield and then got gifted a decision in the rematch. Struggled with Mercer and was very lucky to get the decision. Holmes won clearly against mercer. The same Holmes that Tyson smashed 4 years earlier. He got knocked out by mikes sparring partner the same sparring partner that again, Holmes should have got a decision over. he got knocked out by Rahman

Holyfield... Bowe? Who did Bowe beat? He got pushed to 12 rounds by a fighter that Mike bounced off the canvas

Bowe... Holyfield and no one else. He got battered by golota who Tyson made quit! He got taken rounds and hurt by Herbie Hide He was gifted a decision against Tubbs another old Tyson opponent who Mike wiped the floor with.

Now tell me the best wins each of those has and how its any better than anything Mike could have done.

Wlads best win? He's up there for longevity but he has no HOF stand out wins either. That shouldnt detract from his career because there was no one else good enough to beat him. (Has plenty of KO losses during his "prime" though.) Same as Mike in the eighties. He was too good. He didn't get dropped, or wobbled or draw, or gifted decisions. There was no dispute over who the best was and he avoided no one in the top ten.

Originally Posted by ross

An outside choice but if Eubank Jr keeps winning he has all the ingredients to be massive and in a weight range with plenty of name opponents.

We are looking for a future superstar. So someone who will emerge 2016? When Floyd has left.

Golovkin wont be it. Hes not a big crowd puller now and has held a Belt since 2010!

Eubank jr is one on the up if he can put up his power.

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Originally Posted by tysonesque

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by tysonesque

The young, dedicated and focused 80s Tyson is a completely different proposition.

You mean the Tyson that was fighting such dangerous foes as Mike Jameson, David Jaco, Sammy Scaff, Marvis Frazier, and Steve Zouski?

Oh dear.

Hell, let's throw Tyson's amateur opponents in there as well shall we? How far back in time are going? What about before he started boxing? He hadn't beaten anyone then!

I was (obviously) thinking of the Tyson who beat everyone he fought, including Holmes, Spinks, Biggs etc etc. But no, let's judge him on the guys he fought as an up and coming novice. That always how fighters are judged.

I mean that Ali guy was good, but who did he beat in his first ten fights? Overrated fraud!

Can you expound on the "etc., etc.," I challenge you or anyone else on this forum to name elite, HOF level fighters that Tyson beat. Look at the three you named: Holmes was past his best and fighting without a tune up, Spinks who was a great light heavy but undersized at heavy n had beaten 3 other guys at the weight, and BIGGS. Tyrell Biggs?!? Here's a clue: when you are standing up for a guy's quality of opposition and you have to include Tyrell Biggs as one of his top 3 wins, don't send that post. I like Mike Tyson and I think he gets treated unfairly regarding his personal life, but zit is just a known fact that Mike feasted on a pathetic division. He never beat a prime fighter on the level of Evander, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad...etc.

You could easily pick holes over who they beat.

Which elite HOF fighters did Lewis beat? He drew with Holyfield and then got gifted a decision in the rematch. Struggled with Mercer and was very lucky to get the decision. Holmes won clearly against mercer. The same Holmes that Tyson smashed 4 years earlier. He got knocked out by mikes sparring partner the same sparring partner that again, Holmes should have got a decision over. he got knocked out by Rahman

Holyfield... Bowe? Who did Bowe beat? He got pushed to 12 rounds by a fighter that Mike bounced off the canvas

Bowe... Holyfield and no one else. He got battered by golota who Tyson made quit! He got taken rounds and hurt by Herbie Hide He was gifted a decision against Tubbs another old Tyson opponent who Mike wiped the floor with.

Now tell me the best wins each of those has and how its any better than anything Mike could have done.

Wlads best win? He's up there for longevity but he has no HOF stand out wins either. That shouldnt detract from his career because there was no one else good enough to beat him. (Has plenty of KO losses during his "prime" though.) Same as Mike in the eighties. He was too good. He didn't get dropped, or wobbled or draw, or gifted decisions. There was no dispute over who the best was and he avoided no one in the top ten.

Holyfield: beat prime Bowe (undefeated), Tyson, Michael Moorer, Buster Douglas, Ray Mercer, Foreman (past prime), and drew (should've lost) and lost (should've won) against Lennox.
Lennox: beat Tua, Evander (past prime), Vitali, Tyson (past prime), Rahman, Grant, Mercer, Golota (destroyed past prime but prior to Tyson), Ruddock (post Tyson but more convincingly).
Bowe: Seldon, Prime Evander, Coetzer, Cooper, Gonzalez, Herbie Hide (how many knock downs again?!?), Larry Donald and Golota.
Tyson: Holmes, Spinks (prime ?), Tubbs, Mitch Green, Trevor Berbick, Marvis Frazier, Tony Tucker (prime), Greg Page, Golota, Seldon, Bruno, bone crusher smith, ferguson, tyrell Biggs, Carl Williams.

Looking at those names, in my opinion, Tyson had superior competition to Bowe (but Bowes win over Evander trumps any win for Tyson), but inferior to both Evander and Lennox. Tyson losing to Douglas is equally ugly to Evanders loss to Moorer and Lennox losing to Rahman n Oliver. Lewis and Evander both avenged those losses convincingly, and Tyson did not. I would also argue that Mike was back to form, a 15-1 favorite and Evander was not what he was during his prime when they fought. Evander took mike apart and anyone who says that would've gone differently at any point of either guys' career is kidding themselves or just delusional.

Tyson fighting Holyfield in 88/89 would have been a great time for Tyson to win.

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Originally Posted by ross

Originally Posted by mikeeod

Originally Posted by tysonesque

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by tysonesque

The young, dedicated and focused 80s Tyson is a completely different proposition.

You mean the Tyson that was fighting such dangerous foes as Mike Jameson, David Jaco, Sammy Scaff, Marvis Frazier, and Steve Zouski?

Oh dear.

Hell, let's throw Tyson's amateur opponents in there as well shall we? How far back in time are going? What about before he started boxing? He hadn't beaten anyone then!

I was (obviously) thinking of the Tyson who beat everyone he fought, including Holmes, Spinks, Biggs etc etc. But no, let's judge him on the guys he fought as an up and coming novice. That always how fighters are judged.

I mean that Ali guy was good, but who did he beat in his first ten fights? Overrated fraud!

Can you expound on the "etc., etc.," I challenge you or anyone else on this forum to name elite, HOF level fighters that Tyson beat. Look at the three you named: Holmes was past his best and fighting without a tune up, Spinks who was a great light heavy but undersized at heavy n had beaten 3 other guys at the weight, and BIGGS. Tyrell Biggs?!? Here's a clue: when you are standing up for a guy's quality of opposition and you have to include Tyrell Biggs as one of his top 3 wins, don't send that post. I like Mike Tyson and I think he gets treated unfairly regarding his personal life, but zit is just a known fact that Mike feasted on a pathetic division. He never beat a prime fighter on the level of Evander, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad...etc.

You could easily pick holes over who they beat.

Which elite HOF fighters did Lewis beat? He drew with Holyfield and then got gifted a decision in the rematch. Struggled with Mercer and was very lucky to get the decision. Holmes won clearly against mercer. The same Holmes that Tyson smashed 4 years earlier. He got knocked out by mikes sparring partner the same sparring partner that again, Holmes should have got a decision over. he got knocked out by Rahman

Holyfield... Bowe? Who did Bowe beat? He got pushed to 12 rounds by a fighter that Mike bounced off the canvas

Bowe... Holyfield and no one else. He got battered by golota who Tyson made quit! He got taken rounds and hurt by Herbie Hide He was gifted a decision against Tubbs another old Tyson opponent who Mike wiped the floor with.

Now tell me the best wins each of those has and how its any better than anything Mike could have done.

Wlads best win? He's up there for longevity but he has no HOF stand out wins either. That shouldnt detract from his career because there was no one else good enough to beat him. (Has plenty of KO losses during his "prime" though.) Same as Mike in the eighties. He was too good. He didn't get dropped, or wobbled or draw, or gifted decisions. There was no dispute over who the best was and he avoided no one in the top ten.

Holyfield: beat prime Bowe (undefeated), Tyson, Michael Moorer, Buster Douglas, Ray Mercer, Foreman (past prime), and drew (should've lost) and lost (should've won) against Lennox.
Lennox: beat Tua, Evander (past prime), Vitali, Tyson (past prime), Rahman, Grant, Mercer, Golota (destroyed past prime but prior to Tyson), Ruddock (post Tyson but more convincingly).
Bowe: Seldon, Prime Evander, Coetzer, Cooper, Gonzalez, Herbie Hide (how many knock downs again?!?), Larry Donald and Golota.
Tyson: Holmes, Spinks (prime ?), Tubbs, Mitch Green, Trevor Berbick, Marvis Frazier, Tony Tucker (prime), Greg Page, Golota, Seldon, Bruno, bone crusher smith, ferguson, tyrell Biggs, Carl Williams.

Looking at those names, in my opinion, Tyson had superior competition to Bowe (but Bowes win over Evander trumps any win for Tyson), but inferior to both Evander and Lennox. Tyson losing to Douglas is equally ugly to Evanders loss to Moorer and Lennox losing to Rahman n Oliver. Lewis and Evander both avenged those losses convincingly, and Tyson did not. I would also argue that Mike was back to form, a 15-1 favorite and Evander was not what he was during his prime when they fought. Evander took mike apart and anyone who says that would've gone differently at any point of either guys' career is kidding themselves or just delusional.

Mike Tyson was a victim of his own massive success in his post prison career.

He was out of boxing for 4 years and was declining before that. He was washed up. His name and reputation proceeded him and still carried weight.

Your trying to tell me the fighter who struggled with Cooper would have got passed the prime Tyson that beat Holmes? The same Holmes that gave a prime Holyfield a far more difficult fight than he could ever have hoped to give a prime Tyson?

Heres another view. The Holmes that took Holyfield 12 rounds. What would have happened in a fight between that Holmes and Tyson who lost to Holyfield?

It would have been a much different outcome right?

Thats because Mike Tyson was a much different fighter by then. Certainly not because after another 4 years that Holmes got any better.

Also, I can pick massive holes in your list of opponents that Holyfield faced. Mercer? He lost to Holmes that Tyson beat. Michael Moorer? The only decent name that Foreman could knockout, Foreman was even getting beaten up b A.ex Stewart who Tyson wiped his ass with.

Lennox over Tua? And? Who didn't beat Tua? Event Monte Fucking Barrett beat Tua! Grant? Again, who didnt?

Bowe? That list is a joke.

Pretty piss poor using actual opponents names because there are massive holes to be picked everywhere.

I think the point most try to make by naming all these "HOF" fighters that other champs faced is more to do with consistency but then even that is ridiculous because tell me, which one of Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis and Wlad have held all the main titles together for as ling as Tyson did? Thats real domination. Being THE only man in the division and being able to do that in just 3 years!

People forget in just three years that Mike beat Berbick, smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Holmes, Tubbs, Spinks, Bruno and Williams. 3 were defending champions, another was the lineal champ, another was a hall of famer that went on to beat Mercer and extend Holyfield etc. Had he had the same slow schedule of Holyfield and Lewis in later years maybe people wouldn't be so dismissive?