Thread: Comparing Floyd and Bhop's opposition

Bernard was such a dirty cheater.
How can people seriously think that a guy who broke as many rules as possible in almost every fight he was in could be considered better than a guy who is a boxing genius who fought within the rules?
It's ridiculous that this is even a discussion!
It's all about age. You old people need Bernard in order to feel relevant in a world that's passing you by.

When was the last time Floyd was in a fight where he wasn't the overwhelming favorite

Originally Posted by IamInuit

So some would like to split hairs eh, well ok.


Floyd challenged Hernendez for the 130 title in 98. Hernendez was battle worn, 33 years old and retired right after the fight.

He defended against Manfredy. Just what happened in that fight and why was it stopped?

Next was Rios. A 30 year old pseudo gate keeper.

Then Jukko, Genera, Vargas and Augustus. Opponents.

Then came Chico. Does anyone actually believe that Chico's head was even there? The guy was about a week away from going to the big house. I'm surprised they went through with the fight.

Next came Carlos Hernandez who was shell shocked and dominated 4 years earlier by the same Genaro Hernandez that Floyd beat and he was able to drop Floyd.

Chavez was next up to the plate and he did pretty well until he gassed.

Then came Castillo at 135 and we all saw that first fight. Big points for Floyd going after that rematch and winning it. That was a great win over a very good fighter but Cortez made his presence known and would go on to do so anytime Floyd was faced with a swarmer/crowding type fighter.

Sosa and Ndou were next at 135. Sosa was an unknown Dominican who fought one person with a pulse prior to Floyd in Spadafora and was soundly beaten. Ndou may have been 30 and 1 when he fought Floyd but go take a look at his opposition.

Then came a 140 eliminator with Corley who did give him some issues with his speed and southpaw approach. He rocked Floyd pretty good at one point. Demarcus was no world beater albeit managing to out point Bailey and barely lose his title to Judah.

Floyd then fought another 140 eliminator against Brussels. I guess he was a contender. So this brings us to 2005.

Arturro Gatti for the 140 WBC title followed keeping that close to 10 year relationship alive. Gatti had went to the well far to many times. To come clean though I actually thought he had a shot based on Floyds shady competition up to that point. Needless to say it was another mismatch.

Mitchell was the next victim and then he jumped up to fight Judah for a Welter paper title that for some reason Judah did not lose when he lost to Carlos Baldomir. Judah was the beginning of name plate recognition.
Nobody in boxing thought he'd make it to 12 but he did and actually did better then expected until he started watching himself.

Floyd doesn’t bother with the Ibf tin but then fights Baldo for the Wbc strap he took off Judah. You'd almost think all of this shit was preplanned.

Oscar was next and to Floyds credit he jumped right up to 154 and the shot at super stardom but was Oscar in his prime in 2007? Name plate number 2. And to Oscars credit he stuck with him until he stopped using his jab.

Hatton was next and I'll just say that Cortez absolutely ruined that fight and did what he was indirectly hired to do. It was pathetic and anyone who stands by the “it wouldn’t have made a difference” is daft with little or no understanding of the sport they pretend to be keen on. Not even Name plate rec on this horror show.

Then it was Marquez for some reason. Pretty much a career featherweight who was having difficulty so wandered up to 130/135. This is the fight after close to a 2 year retirement. And he could not even make the weight he agreed to while Marquez was sporting a suit of new flab. Lets just call this for what it was, A joke.

Its now 2009 and his next mark is Shane but it was a dollar short and a decade late. Name plate number 3.

A year later in 2011 its Victor Ortiz and just look at who the ref was and the job he did. Yup that's right Mr. Cortez with yet another academy performance.

FF close to another year and we see Floyd against Cotto in 2012 prior to going to jail. Ugly fight that Floyd did not look all the great in understandably but the boxing world had already thrown Cotto under the bus and again his prime was killed in cement gate. Name plate number 4

Another year passes an its 2013 and he fights Guerrero. Now Robert earned it I guess by jumping up 2 divisions and beating Aydin and Berto but was the result anything but expected

To his credit just a few months later he agrees to Alvarez but of course there is a catch which then turns into another pass for Floyd in the minds of many. Floyd does a nice job but Alvarez held his own.

And lastly Maidana. A fighter all but dismissed by everyone as a no hoper and we witnessed what we did. Sadly he had no Cortez.

Hardly a ledger that justifies the trumpets.

So endeth my hair splitting.

Exactly. The guy who's fought nothing but championship and top ranked opposition for the last 16 years never had a real fight in his life, it was all rigged to give Floyd an easy career, he's a sissy who never fought anyone and only cares about money, every other champion who's ever lived didn't care about money whatsoever and it was just the love of boxing... yeeesh.

It's a good thing this is an internet forum, because there's no way you'd be able to tell me you're not a Floyd hater and keep a straight face. Come on dude.

Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

When was the last time Floyd was in a fight where he wasn't the overwhelming favorite

When you've been the #1 p4p in the sport for nearly 10 years, and you've gone 18 years in boxing without taking a loss, bookies will generally put you as the favourite.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

When was the last time Floyd was in a fight where he wasn't the overwhelming favorite

When you've been the #1 p4p in the sport for nearly 10 years, and you've gone 18 years in boxing without taking a loss, bookies will generally put you as the favourite.

True but there are fights where he wouldnt be as strong a fav as usual but he wont take them. He would have been 4/7 - 4/6 a few years ago against Pac. Hed be a similar price against GGG. I doubt hed be much shorter than 1/3 v Thurman. He'll be about 1/4 v Khan which will be his biggest price for a long time. He did go off around 2/5 v Canelo but that was due to flood of Money on Canelo. THe bookies had him open around 1/5. Instead of Khan he took Maidana twice where he was 1/16 in the 1st and 1/10 in the 2nd.

Again Beans he is a great fighter and an ATG but I dont see how you can suggest he has fought the best possible opponents in their primes which is my only criticism of him. I know this is the case with lots of other fighters in history but most of the other ATGs have that big win that keeps them ahead of Floyd in my rankings.

I am a floyd hater. Id love to see him lose. But Ive never criticised his boxing ability and hes definitely the best fighter of my generation.

Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

Bernard was such a dirty cheater.
How can people seriously think that a guy who broke as many rules as possible in almost every fight he was in could be considered better than a guy who is a boxing genius who fought within the rules?
It's ridiculous that this is even a discussion!
It's all about age. You old people need Bernard in order to feel relevant in a world that's passing you by.

I hope Floyd's little finger is OK after being bitten by Maidana.

Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

True but there are fights where he wouldnt be as strong a fav as usual but he wont take them. He would have been 4/7 - 4/6 a few years ago against Pac. Hed be a similar price against GGG. I doubt hed be much shorter than 1/3 v Thurman. He'll be about 1/4 v Khan which will be his biggest price for a long time. He did go off around 2/5 v Canelo but that was due to flood of Money on Canelo. THe bookies had him open around 1/5. Instead of Khan he took Maidana twice where he was 1/16 in the 1st and 1/10 in the 2nd.

Again Beans he is a great fighter and an ATG but I dont see how you can suggest he has fought the best possible opponents in their primes which is my only criticism of him. I know this is the case with lots of other fighters in history but most of the other ATGs have that big win that keeps them ahead of Floyd in my rankings.

I am a floyd hater. Id love to see him lose. But Ive never criticised his boxing ability and hes definitely the best fighter of my generation.

You tell me a guy he didn't fight in their prime and I'll give you evidence of Floyd calling them out or trying to make the fight happen. Not my opinion or a guess, but real evidence.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by IamInuit

So some would like to split hairs eh, well ok.


Floyd challenged Hernendez for the 130 title in 98. Hernendez was battle worn, 33 years old and retired right after the fight.

He defended against Manfredy. Just what happened in that fight and why was it stopped?

Next was Rios. A 30 year old pseudo gate keeper.

Then Jukko, Genera, Vargas and Augustus. Opponents.

Then came Chico. Does anyone actually believe that Chico's head was even there? The guy was about a week away from going to the big house. I'm surprised they went through with the fight.

Next came Carlos Hernandez who was shell shocked and dominated 4 years earlier by the same Genaro Hernandez that Floyd beat and he was able to drop Floyd.

Chavez was next up to the plate and he did pretty well until he gassed.

Then came Castillo at 135 and we all saw that first fight. Big points for Floyd going after that rematch and winning it. That was a great win over a very good fighter but Cortez made his presence known and would go on to do so anytime Floyd was faced with a swarmer/crowding type fighter.

Sosa and Ndou were next at 135. Sosa was an unknown Dominican who fought one person with a pulse prior to Floyd in Spadafora and was soundly beaten. Ndou may have been 30 and 1 when he fought Floyd but go take a look at his opposition.

Then came a 140 eliminator with Corley who did give him some issues with his speed and southpaw approach. He rocked Floyd pretty good at one point. Demarcus was no world beater albeit managing to out point Bailey and barely lose his title to Judah.

Floyd then fought another 140 eliminator against Brussels. I guess he was a contender. So this brings us to 2005.

Arturro Gatti for the 140 WBC title followed keeping that close to 10 year relationship alive. Gatti had went to the well far to many times. To come clean though I actually thought he had a shot based on Floyds shady competition up to that point. Needless to say it was another mismatch.

Mitchell was the next victim and then he jumped up to fight Judah for a Welter paper title that for some reason Judah did not lose when he lost to Carlos Baldomir. Judah was the beginning of name plate recognition.
Nobody in boxing thought he'd make it to 12 but he did and actually did better then expected until he started watching himself.

Floyd doesn’t bother with the Ibf tin but then fights Baldo for the Wbc strap he took off Judah. You'd almost think all of this shit was preplanned.

Oscar was next and to Floyds credit he jumped right up to 154 and the shot at super stardom but was Oscar in his prime in 2007? Name plate number 2. And to Oscars credit he stuck with him until he stopped using his jab.

Hatton was next and I'll just say that Cortez absolutely ruined that fight and did what he was indirectly hired to do. It was pathetic and anyone who stands by the “it wouldn’t have made a difference” is daft with little or no understanding of the sport they pretend to be keen on. Not even Name plate rec on this horror show.

Then it was Marquez for some reason. Pretty much a career featherweight who was having difficulty so wandered up to 130/135. This is the fight after close to a 2 year retirement. And he could not even make the weight he agreed to while Marquez was sporting a suit of new flab. Lets just call this for what it was, A joke.

Its now 2009 and his next mark is Shane but it was a dollar short and a decade late. Name plate number 3.

A year later in 2011 its Victor Ortiz and just look at who the ref was and the job he did. Yup that's right Mr. Cortez with yet another academy performance.

FF close to another year and we see Floyd against Cotto in 2012 prior to going to jail. Ugly fight that Floyd did not look all the great in understandably but the boxing world had already thrown Cotto under the bus and again his prime was killed in cement gate. Name plate number 4

Another year passes an its 2013 and he fights Guerrero. Now Robert earned it I guess by jumping up 2 divisions and beating Aydin and Berto but was the result anything but expected

To his credit just a few months later he agrees to Alvarez but of course there is a catch which then turns into another pass for Floyd in the minds of many. Floyd does a nice job but Alvarez held his own.

And lastly Maidana. A fighter all but dismissed by everyone as a no hoper and we witnessed what we did. Sadly he had no Cortez.

Hardly a ledger that justifies the trumpets.

So endeth my hair splitting.

Exactly. The guy who's fought nothing but championship and top ranked opposition for the last 16 years never had a real fight in his life, it was all rigged to give Floyd an easy career, he's a sissy who never fought anyone and only cares about money, every other champion who's ever lived didn't care about money whatsoever and it was just the love of boxing... yeeesh.

It's a good thing this is an internet forum, because there's no way you'd be able to tell me you're not a Floyd hater and keep a straight face. Come on dude.

Agree, being an internet forum- we nitpick all fighters we don't agree with. Kinda hard to do with fighters from 1920's-1970's.
Most of us aren't old enough to question Benny Leonards comp or Gene Tunney's comp. Who their comp beat, what weight they walked around at, what they ate for breakfast...

Iam-- broke it down-scientfically- didn't miss jack! LOL! but that is hard to do for fighters of yesteryear.

Now about that post to me... lol!

I remember Hopkins turning down Kovalev as a replacement opponent for him a short time ago, saying Kovalev didn't deserve to fight him. You said that like it was way back in 2002'...:

I remember Hopkins turning rejecting a 2.5 million dollar offer from Frank Warren to fight Joe Calzaghe in 2004. My Opinion only- when a fighter like Hop or Froch has been in the trenches for years- are they really ducking? If Froch says Chavez or retire..same with Hop. Hop fought an in shape Calzaghe 4 years later who had his BEST wins 04-07 in a young Lacy- whooped his ass agree? Young Kessler undefeated, outgritted him- DAMN good fight was it not? & In between a once loss- Bika and Hop took that Calzaghe on. I have no qualms with his (timing) to fight an undefeated JC.


I remember Hopkins being accused of ducking Chad Dawson when Dawson was the next big thing coming. IMO neither Hop nor Dawson could sell seats. Hop needs an opponent with popularity to sell a fight. remember how empty the arena was for Hop-RJJ II? Yet, Hop fought the young undefeated Cloud-& Cloud called out Dawson & said all he fought were old geezers in Johnson & Tarver. So Hop simply knew there was no money in that fight. So Hop fought his conquerer Pascal- and that wasn't impressive? To beat the man who beat Dawson? When Dawson can't sell in conneticut, but Pascal packs a punch and the house in Canada?


I remember Hopkins turning down a 60/40 split to fight then-p4p king Roy Jones.
Most of these fights all occurred in the last 5-10 years of a man who has fought 20+ years. Hopkins I think you & I agree is an egomaniac. Once he got that fat ass Tito $$ payday- he wanted 50%. Then with DLH payday too? If you remember RJJ called out Tito & DLH as well- plus we KNOW how many fights RJJ is questioned on missing. We don't need to name them.


But you're right... it's all about the legacy for Hopkins, he doesn't care one bit about money.
He couldn't have cared for the money when he took on RJJ II, remember how empty the arena was?

Hop's 1st 10 years was all about holding down one division-this is why noone can call him a ducker for nearly a decade 1/2.
And if we hold him accountable for fighting Tito as a fighter moving UP..then shouldn't we do that for all?
Haglar then would have to be the weakest MW of all time if we hold HIM to that standard.
Duran started at what weight? Hearns? Leonard? See then he fought guys who weren't natural MW's.

To me though that is bullshit. A fighter's natural weight is what he walks around at. NOT STARTED.
Then Holyfield too, remember he was called a blown up CW. So then Tyson lost to a blown up CW? No bro... Holyfied, like Duran, Hearns, Leonard and YES TITO T..all gained weight. Plus Tito beat the hell outta MW top contender in Joppy to prove he was a legit MW.

Only Ray Robinson can make that claim- he was never a LHW...he fought at it lost and went back down...If Tito did that then okay, but in reality. Tito is a big victory for Hopkins at MW.
Pavlik was a Knockout artist who was considered the man- he walked around at 170 so that's where they fought. Not Hop's fault Pav fell apart afterwards.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by Silkeyjoe

True but there are fights where he wouldnt be as strong a fav as usual but he wont take them. He would have been 4/7 - 4/6 a few years ago against Pac. Hed be a similar price against GGG. I doubt hed be much shorter than 1/3 v Thurman. He'll be about 1/4 v Khan which will be his biggest price for a long time. He did go off around 2/5 v Canelo but that was due to flood of Money on Canelo. THe bookies had him open around 1/5. Instead of Khan he took Maidana twice where he was 1/16 in the 1st and 1/10 in the 2nd.

Again Beans he is a great fighter and an ATG but I dont see how you can suggest he has fought the best possible opponents in their primes which is my only criticism of him. I know this is the case with lots of other fighters in history but most of the other ATGs have that big win that keeps them ahead of Floyd in my rankings.

I am a floyd hater. Id love to see him lose. But Ive never criticised his boxing ability and hes definitely the best fighter of my generation.

You tell me a guy he didn't fight in their prime and I'll give you evidence of Floyd calling them out or trying to make the fight happen. Not my opinion or a guess, but real evidence.

im not saying he ducked anyone Im just saying he hasnt fought an elite fighter in their prime. Some will argue Canelo but I dont think hes elite, id argue his best is still yet to come, and it was at a catchweight where he was weakened.

Also if he really wanted the Manny fight I know he could have made it happen. Im not saying he ducked him as there are fair demands he made that Manny wouldnt do but I believe if he really wanted it would have happened

[QUOTE=Beanflicker;1280388]

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck.

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd? Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose. He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe, Dawson, or Kovalev. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate.

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

[QUOTE=Spicoli;1280767]

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck Agreed. .

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd?
No,I don't think we can. You're right, IMO it is because PBF is way more talented than Hop. Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose.
Agreed; sooner or later he took on ALL challenges, but didn't win all those he took on. , He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win.
I disagree, he made them well, just too late- by the 6th round, it was too late. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt.
Same thing he waited too late, but styles makes fights, so Hop has little exuses, me too. Taylor won II clean. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe
I don't think it was adaptating, it was workrate. Dawson- again a certain style that Hopkins skill level can't surpass when talent, workrate & a fighter who likes to counter as well, or Kovalev.
Krusher is the only loss Hop had, that I think a younger Hop could've defeated- the one that fought Echols, that Hop had more energy to burn..we are talking 49 years old. Like Kovalev said, it wasn't and easy fight. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.
True, IMO every word, PBF isn't just talented like Ali, SRL & RJJ, he is also a skilled craftsman, sharpshooter, agile & tireless.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate
Isn't it a shame we will never have seen it vs. PW, AM, Khan or Pac?. .

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

I agree. I also think Hop didn't realize that a young Taylor couldn't work 12 rounds- so this actually means Hop misdjudged Taylor & waited way to late to turn it on- By 10-12 round he schooled Taylor, but too little to late

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed.
DLH was the golden egg. Previous to DLH PBF never sold out, never had a PPV he led. I fault neither Hop nor PBF for taking on DLH. DLH was the cash cow. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back.
Agreed, but only diehard fans can appreciate those names. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less.
Echols II you mean? yeah thing of beauty to see him fight almost two rounds with one arm, then outta nowhere --did a move like a karate man, popping his shoulder back in place..I thought it was B.S theatrics- but nevertheless he fought one armed beautifully, then ended the fight like a marksman. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. (True) At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

I wonder if Tarver gaining weight to play Mason Dixon drained him. When I watch the underated fights of Tarver vs Johnson those were punchfests. where did all that energy go?

[QUOTE=SlimTrae;1280786]

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

His entire career was adaptability, literally from very early search and destroy to retooling his approach to the far too often broad brush and dismissal of the defensive sniper stuff he does. Yeh, sometimes it's ugly, but it's also gritty, cagey and full of guile you don't just learn overnight. Both fighters regardless of fandom can be very hunt and peck Agreed. .

Bhop adopted for sure, but can we say he was more adaptive than Floyd?
No,I don't think we can. You're right, IMO it is because PBF is way more talented than Hop. Whenever Bhop ran into a tough style for him, he seemed to lose.
Agreed; sooner or later he took on ALL challenges, but didn't win all those he took on. , He never made the adjustments to Jermain Taylor to find a way to win.
I disagree, he made them well, just too late- by the 6th round, it was too late. He even had a second chance, and again could not adapt.
Same thing he waited too late, but styles makes fights, so Hop has little exuses, me too. Taylor won II clean. He couldn't adapt to Cazlaghe
I don't think it was adaptating, it was workrate. Dawson- again a certain style that Hopkins skill level can't surpass when talent, workrate & a fighter who likes to counter as well, or Kovalev.
Krusher is the only loss Hop had, that I think a younger Hop could've defeated- the one that fought Echols, that Hop had more energy to burn..we are talking 49 years old. Like Kovalev said, it wasn't and easy fight. He kept doing the same thing.

Floyd has consistently made adjustments and gotten stronger as the fight progressed. We saw it with Mosley. With Castillo, who arguably should have won the first fight, he adjusted and dominated the rematch. With Oscar, he adjusted and controlled the mid and later parts of the fight. He took over the mid and later rounds vs Maidana and dominated the rematch.
True, IMO every word, PBF isn't just talented like Ali, SRL & RJJ, he is also a skilled craftsman, sharpshooter, agile & tireless.

Floyd has been adapting his style seamlessly into his advanced age, as his legs have started to go we've seen him start working smarter to compensate
Isn't it a shame we will never have seen it vs. PW, AM, Khan or Pac?. .

Ya know. I put Taylor 1 squarely on Hopkins. He assumed, he let his fat ego get in the way and did indeed grow stronger down the stretch, Hopkins has gotten stronger in the late rounds for the longest time, but he refused to insist on a ko there. He pooched it. That was a 1 point fight...and Taylor was rocking and rolling late.

I agree. I also think Hop didn't realize that a young Taylor couldn't work 12 rounds- so this actually means Hop misdjudged Taylor & waited way to late to turn it on- By 10-12 round he schooled Taylor, but too little to late

Hopkins adapted to Oscar as well. He left him in a heap. And before we start railing on Oscar not being a middle (I do agree and hated that fight)...its not as if Mayweather has never beat on a guy who jumps a division just to make an "event"? At least Oscar had previously made the weight..and fought there albeit getting his ears boxed.
DLH was the golden egg. Previous to DLH PBF never sold out, never had a PPV he led. I fault neither Hop nor PBF for taking on DLH. DLH was the cash cow. Hopkins had been in "tough" and adapted well enough. Ask Allen, Mercado and Echols how he adapted and came back.
Agreed, but only diehard fans can appreciate those names. With a jacked up shoulder and basically bashing the latter with one arm no less.
Echols II you mean? yeah thing of beauty to see him fight almost two rounds with one arm, then outta nowhere --did a move like a karate man, popping his shoulder back in place..I thought it was B.S theatrics- but nevertheless he fought one armed beautifully, then ended the fight like a marksman. No one expected less off Mayweather when he adapted to Marcos-Maidana. (True) At the same point in his career Hopkins was adapting to an entirely different division and second career..legitimately..and dominating THE recognized Lt heavyweight champion not to mention a top ranked p4p fighter in Tarver.

I wonder if Tarver gaining weight to play Mason Dixon drained him. When I watch the underated fights of Tarver vs Johnson those were punchfests. where did all that energy go?

Yeh, that's a helluva lot of weight and Hopkins knew just that. But a man works on what's in front of him and on the other end Hopkins was coming up. That's why they basically jumped him early and set pace. Ironically its always brought up with Tarver-Jones jr too and both came back in the same amount of time 7,8 months. Tarver was 'bigger' but no where near stronger vs Hopkins. I honestly don't think it would have dictated a different result(s)..styles, minds sets etc . Tarver had that knack for waiting and watching, Johnson was a buzzsaw and Tarver was doing a Hopkins style late in second fight. Johnson brought guys into the trenches god love em.

Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Originally Posted by La Cucaracha

When was the last time Floyd was in a fight where he wasn't the overwhelming favorite

When you've been the #1 p4p in the sport for nearly 10 years, and you've gone 18 years in boxing without taking a loss, bookies will generally put you as the favourite.

I think if he signed to fight Golovkin next the odds would be close when he was supposed to fight Wright I think it would have been close when Martinez was chasing Floyd and Pac after destroying Williams would have been another challenge

Calling someone out and actually fighting them are not the same thing I'll call you out right now but it don't mean sh-t until we actually fight

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Agree, being an internet forum- we nitpick all fighters we don't agree with. Kinda hard to do with fighters from 1920's-1970's.
Most of us aren't old enough to question Benny Leonards comp or Gene Tunney's comp. Who their comp beat, what weight they walked around at, what they ate for breakfast...

Iam-- broke it down-scientfically- didn't miss jack! LOL! but that is hard to do for fighters of yesteryear.

Now about that post to me... lol!

I remember Hopkins turning down Kovalev as a replacement opponent for him a short time ago, saying Kovalev didn't deserve to fight him. You said that like it was way back in 2002'...:

I remember Hopkins turning rejecting a 2.5 million dollar offer from Frank Warren to fight Joe Calzaghe in 2004. My Opinion only- when a fighter like Hop or Froch has been in the trenches for years- are they really ducking? If Froch says Chavez or retire..same with Hop. Hop fought an in shape Calzaghe 4 years later who had his BEST wins 04-07 in a young Lacy- whooped his ass agree? Young Kessler undefeated, outgritted him- DAMN good fight was it not? & In between a once loss- Bika and Hop took that Calzaghe on. I have no qualms with his (timing) to fight an undefeated JC.


I remember Hopkins being accused of ducking Chad Dawson when Dawson was the next big thing coming. IMO neither Hop nor Dawson could sell seats. Hop needs an opponent with popularity to sell a fight. remember how empty the arena was for Hop-RJJ II? Yet, Hop fought the young undefeated Cloud-& Cloud called out Dawson & said all he fought were old geezers in Johnson & Tarver. So Hop simply knew there was no money in that fight. So Hop fought his conquerer Pascal- and that wasn't impressive? To beat the man who beat Dawson? When Dawson can't sell in conneticut, but Pascal packs a punch and the house in Canada?


I remember Hopkins turning down a 60/40 split to fight then-p4p king Roy Jones.
Most of these fights all occurred in the last 5-10 years of a man who has fought 20+ years. Hopkins I think you & I agree is an egomaniac. Once he got that fat ass Tito $$ payday- he wanted 50%. Then with DLH payday too? If you remember RJJ called out Tito & DLH as well- plus we KNOW how many fights RJJ is questioned on missing. We don't need to name them.


But you're right... it's all about the legacy for Hopkins, he doesn't care one bit about money.
He couldn't have cared for the money when he took on RJJ II, remember how empty the arena was?

Hop's 1st 10 years was all about holding down one division-this is why noone can call him a ducker for nearly a decade 1/2.
And if we hold him accountable for fighting Tito as a fighter moving UP..then shouldn't we do that for all?
Haglar then would have to be the weakest MW of all time if we hold HIM to that standard.
Duran started at what weight? Hearns? Leonard? See then he fought guys who weren't natural MW's.

To me though that is bullshit. A fighter's natural weight is what he walks around at. NOT STARTED.
Then Holyfield too, remember he was called a blown up CW. So then Tyson lost to a blown up CW? No bro... Holyfied, like Duran, Hearns, Leonard and YES TITO T..all gained weight. Plus Tito beat the hell outta MW top contender in Joppy to prove he was a legit MW.

Only Ray Robinson can make that claim- he was never a LHW...he fought at it lost and went back down...If Tito did that then okay, but in reality. Tito is a big victory for Hopkins at MW.
Pavlik was a Knockout artist who was considered the man- he walked around at 170 so that's where they fought. Not Hop's fault Pav fell apart afterwards.

I dunno man, sounds like a lot of justifying to me. It seems like you're going the extra mile to give Hopkins the benefit of the doubt on everything, but taking Floyd to task on everyone he never fought.

At the time Calzaghe made the offer to fight Bhop, Calzaghe was the undisputed #1 a 168, and Hopkins was the undisputed king of 160. Calzaghe's camp offered him a career high payday, Hopkins refused/priced himself out, and went on to fight a string of mediocre fighters for much less money.

If Floyd had done the same thing, do you think people would have given him the benefit of the doubt on that like you have? I don't think so.

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank Warren and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank Warren agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."

- Jay Larkin, then Showtime TV Network's Senior Vice-President of Sports and Event Programming.

That's a more blatant duck than anything Floyd has been accused of.