Thread: Charley Burley - Analyzing Genius Video

Got the Black Murderers Row - Charley Burley book for Xmas, not had time to read it yet but have heard from many people and some reviews that it's one of the best books out there - did some searching to try and find some footage of the man and came across this video that looks at his unique style.

Watched it a few times now and the guy was a pure natural master with a great defence and brilliant footwork - Reminds me of a Prime Naz the way he leans back then leaps in with his punches if that makes any sense

It's Criminal he never won a title and was 100% one of the most avoided fighters in History (Ray Robinson, Tony Zale, Jake LaMotta, Marcel Cerdan and Rocky Graziano all ducked him) - This is a natural Welter Weight who defeated Archie Moore and was also never stopped by anyone in his career.

Eddie Futch said Burley was the greatest all-round fighter he ever worked with, he must have been great because Futch worked with Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, Alexis Arguello and a load of other greats.

Anyway see what you think and has anyone here read the book yet?

My Hardback copy is signed by the author and numbered as a limited edition which i wasn't expecting




Charley Burley - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for reminding me. I meant to get the book.

Guys like Burley set the blueprint for textbook shots, advanced.

IMO only the HW division has changed so drastically that fighters from yesteryear couldnt survive.
But Burley would be hell with any fighter today; proof was how so many historians and boxers to this very day who were old enough to have claimed Ray Robinson didnt want no part of him. & this only piece of footage we have of him, nice the way it was edited and word-commentary.

Was it Ray R who said he was too pretty to fight Burley?

Charley Burley was a good boxer right?

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Thanks for reminding me. I meant to get the book.

Guys like Burley set the blueprint for textbook shots, advanced.

IMO only the HW division has changed so drastically that fighters from yesteryear couldnt survive.
But Burley would be hell with any fighter today; proof was how so many historians and boxers to this very day who were old enough to have claimed Ray Robinson didnt want no part of him. & this only piece of footage we have of him, nice the way it was edited and word-commentary.

Was it Ray R who said he was too pretty to fight Burley?

Yes,

Sugar Ray was sat ringside watching Burley fight and said exactly that when asked if he'd fight him

Originally Posted by smashup

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Thanks for reminding me. I meant to get the book.

Guys like Burley set the blueprint for textbook shots, advanced.

IMO only the HW division has changed so drastically that fighters from yesteryear couldnt survive.
But Burley would be hell with any fighter today; proof was how so many historians and boxers to this very day who were old enough to have claimed Ray Robinson didnt want no part of him. & this only piece of footage we have of him, nice the way it was edited and word-commentary.

Was it Ray R who said he was too pretty to fight Burley?

Yes,

Sugar Ray was sat ringside watching Burley fight and said exactly that when asked if he'd fight him

Cooper would say Liston was too ugly when offered the opportunity to fight him.

It's a shame a lot of those great black fighters didn't get their shot. Jake Lamotta talked a lot about them in his book. He wasn't in bed with the mob and protected, so he ended up having to fight a lot of them, and he said that there were unknown guys like the Murderer's Row that would have chased the champs of the time out of the ring if they got the opportunity.

Is there anything boxing technique related in this book?

Hey @smashup,

You forgot one other fighter that ducked him too...

Billy Conn...

One of Joe Louis's <cough> "STELLAR" opponents was brave enough to fight Louis but apparently could not bare the fought of having to face Charley Burley.

How ironic!

Originally Posted by smashup

Whoever bought you that copy must love you very much. They are extremely rare. Only 300 copies were printed. That cover tells me that’s the 2002 edition. Don’t be setting a cup a tea on it.


Just an incredible fighter and by all accounts an incredible human being. I've read the book and have posted that very video on this very site on more then one occasion. Its one of those things I never get tired of watching or using as reference material.

After he was denied title shots by Zale and Cohrane who used the at times convenient frozen title rule during WW2. Burley even offered to fight Cochrane for free with any earnings made to be donated to the War fund and they still said no. When the welter and middle challenges failed, they offered Billy Conns manager Johnny Ray 10 grand and a gate % and they said no deal.

While getting impatient he took his then barely over welter body up to meet Ezzard Charles twice in 5 weeks and fought Holman Williams again about a week prior to his second fight with Charles.He took on Jay Turner who outweighed him by 70 pounds and had just went the distance with Conn. Charley stopped him in 6 rounds

A lot of people think that Robinson comment is urban legend but its a fact. The two met in a lobby in New York when Burley was in town to fight Phil McQuillan April 20th. and Robinson was billed at the Minneapolis Armoury along with Burley 10 days later. Burley stopped Wilson in 2 and Robinson stopped Banner in 2 but it was during the McQuillan fight that Robinson said "I'm too pretty to fight Charley Burley".

He was actually scheduled twice to face Robinson, once for May of 1946 but Ray demanded a pay increase of 25,000 dollars knowing full well that would kill the fight. Charley was more then confident that he'd beat Ray and actually understood why Ray would not fight him. Following a shallow points loss to Lloyd Marshall he moved to California with his new manager Tommy Loughlin and met up with greats like Chase, Booker, Wade and Moore etc and became the first man to stop Jack Chase in 55 fights

His fight with Moore was extremely short notice. In fact Charley was working at a factory for the war effort because he failed the physical to join the army because of a broken/burst ear drum. He got the call on shift at work. He finished his shift, jumped on a bus to Hollywood and went and beat up Archie dropping him thrice on way clear and concise ud,

One of my favourite fighters of all time. If you enjoy the book @smashup and I'm sure you will you should also purchase the new Springs Toledo book entitled Gods of War. Its from his collection of essays and the Burley read is incredible. I did a thread on that a couple of years back so its probably long gone but Spring's take is a must read.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by smashup

Whoever bought you that copy must love you very much. They are extremely rare. Only 300 copies were printed. That cover tells me that’s the 2002 edition. Don’t be setting a cup a tea on it.


Just an incredible fighter and by all accounts an incredible human being. I've read the book and have posted that very video on this very site on more then one occasion. Its one of those things I never get tired of watching or using as reference material.

After he was denied title shots by Zale and Cohrane who used the at times convenient frozen title rule during WW2. Burley even offered to fight Cochrane for free with any earnings made to be donated to the War fund and they still said no. When the welter and middle challenges failed, they offered Billy Conns manager Johnny Ray 10 grand and a gate % and they said no deal.

While getting impatient he took his then barely over welter body up to meet Ezzard Charles twice in 5 weeks and fought Holman Williams again about a week prior to his second fight with Charles.He took on Jay Turner who outweighed him by 70 pounds and had just went the distance with Conn. Charley stopped him in 6 rounds

A lot of people think that Robinson comment is urban legend but its a fact. The two met in a lobby in New York when Burley was in town to fight Phil McQuillan April 20th. and Robinson was billed at the Minneapolis Armoury along with Burley 10 days later. Burley stopped Wilson in 2 and Robinson stopped Banner in 2 but it was during the McQuillan fight that Robinson said "I'm too pretty to fight Charley Burley".

He was actually scheduled twice to face Robinson, once for May of 1946 but Ray demanded a pay increase of 25,000 dollars knowing full well that would kill the fight. Charley was more then confident that he'd beat Ray and actually understood why Ray would not fight him. Following a shallow points loss to Lloyd Marshall he moved to California with his new manager Tommy Loughlin and met up with greats like Chase, Booker, Wade and Moore etc and became the first man to stop Jack Chase in 55 fights

His fight with Moore was extremely short notice. In fact Charley was working at a factory for the war effort because he failed the physical to join the army because of a broken/burst ear drum. He got the call on shift at work. He finished his shift, jumped on a bus to Hollywood and went and beat up Archie dropping him thrice on way clear and concise ud,

One of my favourite fighters of all time. If you enjoy the book @smashup and I'm sure you will you should also purchase the new Springs Toledo book entitled Gods of War. Its from his collection of essays and the Burley read is incredible. I did a thread on that a couple of years back so its probably long gone but Spring's take is a must read.

My Girlfriends little boy accidentally kicked a glass of red wine over in while jumping about on the kitchen table on New Years Eve - Fact

Luckily not to stained and he's only 9 so will let him off

So busy at work that not had a chance to start reading it but will do soon, i gotta admit i'm a total Anorak when it comes to old fight stories and love reading/watching stuff about it and will definitely be hunting down the other book you mentioned as soon as possible.

Think my girlfriend got it through Amazon but she ordered it months ago and paid a fair bit of ££ because i wanted a hardback version - off the top of my head i think mines 143/300 and signed in ink pen by the Author

Thanks for the heads up fella!!

He twice ironed out Robinson in sparring. And this was whilst working as the gym janitor, he had just mopped out the bogs

He once took a fight on a days notice. He spent all day grafting at work, then sprinted to catch a gruelling 4 hour train ride to LA. He made it by mere seconds. Gloved up and proceeded to dazzle his opponent with a sublime display of pugilism. His opponent? None other than Archie Moore

Originally Posted by Max Power

Hey @smashup,

You forgot one other fighter that ducked him too...

Billy Conn...

One of Joe Louis's <cough> "STELLAR" opponents was brave enough to fight Louis but apparently could not bare the fought of having to face Charley Burley.

How ironic!

By the time Burley starting making headlines as a welter, Conn was fighting lightheavies. Check the dates.

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

By the time Burley starting making headlines as a welter, Conn was fighting lightheavies. Check the dates.

They did challenge him though and he refused even with a sweetened pot. I hear you though. Conn was not about to risk it all in those days by getting beat by an up and comer anymore then Robinson was.

Originally Posted by IamInuit

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

By the time Burley starting making headlines as a welter, Conn was fighting lightheavies. Check the dates.

They did challenge him though and he refused even with a sweetened pot. I hear you though. Conn was not about to risk it all in those days by getting beat by an up and comer anymore then Robinson was.

Did not know most of that. Brilliant post.

I did not know Conn avoided him either and he was only a welterweight!