Thread: REAL Joe Louis quotes on Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis once described how he would have fought Ali, The Ring, Feb. 1967:

“The kid has speed and there’s no one around to outbox him, and the opponent who tries is in his grave. Especially in the middle of the ring. I’d see to it that Clay didn’t stay in ring center. No. He’d be hit into those ropes as near a corner as I could get him. If he stayed on the ropes he would get hurt. Sooner or later he’d try to bounce off, when he did he would get hurt more. I’d press him, cut down his speed, and bang him around the ribs. I’d punish the body. “Kill the body and the head will die”, Chappie use to tell me. It figures. Sooner or later he’d forget about that face of his and he would start dropping that left hand like he did against Mildenberger and Chuvalo. Those fellows got their openings by accident, and fouled it up. I would work for it and wouldn’t reckon to miss when it arrived. Cassius Clay is a nice boy and a smart fighter. But I am sure Joe Louis would have licked him.”

--Joe Louis
The Ring, Feb. 1967

References

Ali, M. with Durham, R. 1975. The Greatest My Own Story. Random House.

Anderson, Dave. 1991. In The Corner. NY. William Morrow and Co.

Boxing Scene. 1995 Spring. Tiger Press Inc. Palisades, NY. “Rocky Marciano vs. Joe Louis. Who Would Have Won In Their Primes?” by Murray Goodman.

Ring Magazine. 1966 July. “How would Clay Have Done Against Stars of the Past.” by Ted Carroll.

Ring Magazine. 1967 Feb. “How I Would Have Clobbered Clay” by Joe Louis.

Ring Magazine. 1992 Mar. Battle of the Legends: Muhammad Ali vs. Joe Louis

Louis, J. with Rust Jr., A. and Rust, E. 1978. Joe Louis: My Life. Hopewell, NJ. Ecco Press.

Eddie Futch always believed that Joe Louis had the correct style to exploit Ali's fundamental flaws. He trained Norton to use the same strategy he believed Louis would have employed. Futch instructed Norton, (Anderson p 235), “Your not going to hit Ali by slipping, dropping underneath or parrying. You have to hit him while he’s punching. When he starts to jab you punch with him. Keep your right hand high. His jab will pop into the middle of your glove and then your jab will come right down the pipe…that is what destroyed Ali’s rhythm.” Ali jabbing with his right hand out to the side made him vulnerable to a counter jab. A classic boxer with his rigth hand held in proper position could catch Ali's jab in his glove and counter, Ali would be helpless to avoid it since his hand was not in the correct position.

Futch further planned out the following, (p 235), “If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing.” Then Eddie told him what to do when he got Ali to the ropes, “Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands.” That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

Joe Louis was the GREATEST OF ALL TIME! What a well put together fighter!!! Power, knowledge, hand speed, ring generalship he had everything

Jack Johnson said the same thing about Joe that Joe is saying about Ali: he'd win and win easily.

Interesting that Norton & Frazier were pegged to give Ali fits as Ring Magazine quote that Jack Johnson predicted Max would beat Joe and the exact punch that he landed fight 1.

Jack also said Joe's methodical footwork made him look mechanical, cause Jack was into the hiphop rhythm of his day called Jazz when employing his footwork.

I guess every older era of ahtletes claims to know how to beat the era that replaces them.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Joe Louis was the GREATEST OF ALL TIME! What a well put together fighter!!! Power, knowledge, hand speed, ring generalship he had everything

I have a friend who is a former super middle weight pro boxer with a 6-2 record. He is a very tough Mexican guy and surprisingly his favorite fighter is Joe Louis. He says Louis did everything perfect and was surprised that I was surprised that this was his favorite fighter. He talked as though any other fighter as his favorite wouldn't make sense.

"It would probably be as boring as a rerun of CSI, because Muhammad would spend the whole fight running like Usain Bolt."

-Joe Louis on a hypothetical Ali matchup.

Joe Louis threw perfect punches and was efficient but Ali was all wrong for him.

Older champions very seldom have good things to say about the next generation of fighters.

When you were the best and by a wide margin and then you're asked after your career how things would go you're either still competitive and say something to the effect of "I never went into a fight thinking I would lose" or you try to be objective and give credit where credit is due but at the same time not throw dirt on your career.

Mike Tyson gets asked a lot about how current fighters stack up and he handles it as well as anyone else.

Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Eddie Futch always believed that Joe Louis had the correct style to exploit Ali's fundamental flaws. He trained Norton to use the same strategy he believed Louis would have employed. Futch instructed Norton, (Anderson p 235), “Your not going to hit Ali by slipping, dropping underneath or parrying. You have to hit him while he’s punching. When he starts to jab you punch with him. Keep your right hand high. His jab will pop into the middle of your glove and then your jab will come right down the pipe…that is what destroyed Ali’s rhythm.” Ali jabbing with his right hand out to the side made him vulnerable to a counter jab. A classic boxer with his rigth hand held in proper position could catch Ali's jab in his glove and counter, Ali would be helpless to avoid it since his hand was not in the correct position.

Futch further planned out the following, (p 235), “If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing.” Then Eddie told him what to do when he got Ali to the ropes, “Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands.” That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

Bullshit, speculation, and hypothetical. Let me put it this way,
Hypothetical bullshit speculation!

Originally Posted by Master

Joe Louis threw perfect punches and was efficient but Ali was all wrong for him.

The main thing about Joe Louis was he had a great knack for distance, he was great at knowing just how much room he had to work with. He rarely if ever reached on a punch, over extended, or short armed a punch. His punches were crisp, accurate, and landed solidly and that all goes along with he was damned difficult to beat. Now with Ali's head movement and footwork would Louis find it difficult to land? Well Joe Frazier who was pretty much a 1 armed fighter until later in his career when he was a 1 eyed fighter had little trouble pestering Ali, Frazier was also a bit of a plodder as well. I think an Ali-Louis fight is a LOT closer than people want to believe but then again that's the way most hypothetical matchups would be vs Ali. People think Ali was super human....he wasn't, he was just another boxer albeit a great one, but he had exploitable flaws just like anyone else.

An old Joe Louis beat up on Joe Walcott who was a very solid defensive fighter, very tricky, very cagey...he knocked Walcott out in their rematch. A Prime Joe Louis is as perfect of a boxer as you could dream up, big power in both hands, poured on the pressure, very good hand speed, big for his era, just a supremely talented boxer.

Originally Posted by beenKOed

Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Eddie Futch always believed that Joe Louis had the correct style to exploit Ali's fundamental flaws. He trained Norton to use the same strategy he believed Louis would have employed. Futch instructed Norton, (Anderson p 235), “Your not going to hit Ali by slipping, dropping underneath or parrying. You have to hit him while he’s punching. When he starts to jab you punch with him. Keep your right hand high. His jab will pop into the middle of your glove and then your jab will come right down the pipe…that is what destroyed Ali’s rhythm.” Ali jabbing with his right hand out to the side made him vulnerable to a counter jab. A classic boxer with his rigth hand held in proper position could catch Ali's jab in his glove and counter, Ali would be helpless to avoid it since his hand was not in the correct position.

Futch further planned out the following, (p 235), “If you start from the center of the ring it will only take you three steps to get Ali on the ropes. Every time you jab, step in and jab again. Then do the same thing.” Then Eddie told him what to do when he got Ali to the ropes, “Don’t do like all the other guys do. Don’t throw your left hook to the head, he’ll pull back against the ropes and pepper you with counter-punches, instead start banging his body with both hands.” That is how Norton, whose jab, speed, and power was inferior to Joe Louis, gave Ali hell in three very close fights.

Bullshit, speculation, and hypothetical. Let me put it this way,
Hypothetical bullshit speculation!

No, not really. That is Eddie Futch talking about the fight plan he prepared for Norton to use vs Ali. He DID those things in those fights. There is nothing hypothetical or speculative about it. That was their plan and that is what they did.

I love how we look at what boxers and trainers say about how they'd do against hypothetical opponents and take it as fact.

Do you realize EVERY boxer/trainer says they are going to whip their opponent? Meaning that if you factor in draws and no contests, over 50% of boxers/trainers are wrong when they predict that they/their fighter is going to beat the opponent.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Mike hit the nail on the head there when he said "as much as we hate to admit it, athletes get better over time". More boxing fans need to pay attention to that line. People have gotten so much bigger, stronger, and faster over the years.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

Originally Posted by Master

Joe Louis threw perfect punches and was efficient but Ali was all wrong for him.

The main thing about Joe Louis was he had a great knack for distance, he was great at knowing just how much room he had to work with. He rarely if ever reached on a punch, over extended, or short armed a punch. His punches were crisp, accurate, and landed solidly and that all goes along with he was damned difficult to beat. Now with Ali's head movement and footwork would Louis find it difficult to land? Well Joe Frazier who was pretty much a 1 armed fighter until later in his career when he was a 1 eyed fighter had little trouble pestering Ali, Frazier was also a bit of a plodder as well. I think an Ali-Louis fight is a LOT closer than people want to believe but then again that's the way most hypothetical matchups would be vs Ali. People think Ali was super human....he wasn't, he was just another boxer albeit a great one, but he had exploitable flaws just like anyone else.

An old Joe Louis beat up on Joe Walcott who was a very solid defensive fighter, very tricky, very cagey...he knocked Walcott out in their rematch. A Prime Joe Louis is as perfect of a boxer as you could dream up, big power in both hands, poured on the pressure, very good hand speed, big for his era, just a supremely talented boxer.

I agree and great post but Joe was vulnerable to Conn and Walcott really beat Joe when they fought. Although Joe was old and ready to retire by then.

Joe Louis

I can see Clay giving me some trouble for a few Rounds, maybe 5 or 6. He is very fast
and has some tricky moves.

But he pulls back with his hands down, and leaves his mid-section wide open. I would
really enjoy hitting that bread-basket.

If we had fought, I can guarantee you that Clay wouldn't have enjoyed a solid meal for
at least a month.