Thread: "Ali hate"..... what's the point??

Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Dear Bill

You really need to get out more

Why,

When I have Ms. Barbeau here.

"You see Mr. Greenbeanz. Bill and I are working on a lot of special projects together. I guess
you could call me Bill's 'right-hand girl'."

Adrienne Barbeau

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

Dear Bill

You really need to get out more

Why,

When I have Ms. Barbeau here.

You know Ali tried to go into the army before right and they turned him down and when he became the hw champ all the sudden they try to draft him. I know being black in the 1960's was shit most likely and hell after he won the gold medal for our country they would not even serve his ass at a dinner know how fucked up that is. Ali had his believes and he stood by them and did not run and served his jail time like he was supposed to do so i dont hate a man for what he believes in. Ali has one of the best fighters to ever walk in to the ring was champ in the 60's 70's and even in the 80's when Holmes beat him. Ali was who he was a guy that had a larger then life image and who was a great fighter i mean who does not know who Ali is i mean fucking everyone in world knows the guy if wants to call himself the greatest so be it he backed it up enough.

Originally Posted by Mr140

You know Ali tried to go into the army before right and they turned him down and when he became the hw champ all the sudden they try to draft him. I know being black in the 1960's was shit most likely and hell after he won the gold medal for our country they would not even serve his ass at a dinner know how fucked up that is. Ali had his believes and he stood by them and did not run and served his jail time like he was supposed to do so i dont hate a man for what he believes in. Ali has one of the best fighters to ever walk in to the ring was champ in the 60's 70's and even in the 80's when Holmes beat him. Ali was who he was a guy that had a larger then life image and who was a great fighter i mean who does not know who Ali is i mean fucking everyone in world knows the guy if wants to call himself the greatest so be it he backed it up enough.

Everything you just stated,

Was released by Cassius Clay's press people, to make him look good in the public's eye.

Cassius 'never' wanted to go into the United States Military, unless it was as a 'Spaceship Commander'.

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Tyson would've destroyed Ali. Marciano would've destroyed Ali. Norton DID beat Ali. Hell... let's carry it further and say Butterbean would've beat Ali. Ali wasn't all that great. He was disrespectful... he dodged the draft... he clowned opponents. Some here even refuse to use his chosen name. It's Clay this... Clay that... almost with disdain. Yet any other athlete in any other sport changes his name and we all flock to use it. What's the point in all this hate??

Was Ali TBE? Most probably not. At least in my own personal opinion. There's plenty of other fighters who could probably claim that with more backup than Ali. Is Ali an ATG? He most certainly is. He won some fights nobody thought he would win (Liston, Foreman)... and was involved in some of the sport's best classics (Ali-Frazier III). He polarized the sport. He made some people love him... made others hate him. But the result was the same. He drew people to the sport. They either wanted him to win, or wanted him destroyed.

Let's face it. Were it not for Ali during that time, boxing wouldn't have made that huge leap in popularity that made it so popular in the decades that followed.

I'd like to hear from the haters themselves. What is it about Ali that brings out the vast amount of hate? I'm just curious. Were you around when Ali was fighting? Did you hate his off the ring antics? Did his stance on Vietnam or race relations irk you? Did you take his hate relationship with Joe Frazier personally? Are you pissed that Larry Holmes (as Holmes is and will always be) never got the attention you thought he deserved because he followed in Ali's footsteps?

What?

Most of the haters of Ali are those that were not even born when Ali was actually boxing
I was I followed his career since the day I saw him fight Henry Cooper in London as a kid
we wanted to see Henry silence the Louisville Lip & even booed Clay. I Left that fight a life long fan To me Ali is THE GREATEST in & out of the ring
You say Ali dodged the draft that's why he is hated. Ali refused induction due to his religious beliefs, Beliefs I do not share with him but I respect him for standing up for what he believed in He took what ever punishment they dished out .He didn't run to Canada or England like a certain gentleman named William Jefferson Clinton ran to avoid the draft. Clintons "punishment" You made him President of the United States ROFLMAO
I agree he went too far at times insulting opponents especially Joe Frazier but he was really only selling the fights. I met Joe & Earnie Shavers many years ago in Dallas & talked to them both about Ali. I asked Joe if they really hated each other Joes answer was " I would not claim to be his friend & go out for a beer with him but Ive never met a man I respected more. I hit him as hard as I have ever hit any man & he never stoped coming, If I was at war in the trenches he is the man I'd like to have fighting alongside me". Earnie grinned & said " I agree with Joe"

Good post.
Nothing like personal experience.
The bolded statement is the point I was trying to make also.
It's comical to be hated by someone who wasn't even born when the guy was fighting.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Tyson would've destroyed Ali. Marciano would've destroyed Ali. Norton DID beat Ali. Hell... let's carry it further and say Butterbean would've beat Ali. Ali wasn't all that great. He was disrespectful... he dodged the draft... he clowned opponents. Some here even refuse to use his chosen name. It's Clay this... Clay that... almost with disdain. Yet any other athlete in any other sport changes his name and we all flock to use it. What's the point in all this hate??

Was Ali TBE? Most probably not. At least in my own personal opinion. There's plenty of other fighters who could probably claim that with more backup than Ali. Is Ali an ATG? He most certainly is. He won some fights nobody thought he would win (Liston, Foreman)... and was involved in some of the sport's best classics (Ali-Frazier III). He polarized the sport. He made some people love him... made others hate him. But the result was the same. He drew people to the sport. They either wanted him to win, or wanted him destroyed.

Let's face it. Were it not for Ali during that time, boxing wouldn't have made that huge leap in popularity that made it so popular in the decades that followed.

I'd like to hear from the haters themselves. What is it about Ali that brings out the vast amount of hate? I'm just curious. Were you around when Ali was fighting? Did you hate his off the ring antics? Did his stance on Vietnam or race relations irk you? Did you take his hate relationship with Joe Frazier personally? Are you pissed that Larry Holmes (as Holmes is and will always be) never got the attention you thought he deserved because he followed in Ali's footsteps?

What?

Most of the haters of Ali are those that were not even born when Ali was actually boxing
I was I followed his career since the day I saw him fight Henry Cooper in London as a kid
we wanted to see Henry silence the Louisville Lip & even booed Clay. I Left that fight a life long fan To me Ali is THE GREATEST in & out of the ring
You say Ali dodged the draft that's why he is hated. Ali refused induction due to his religious beliefs, Beliefs I do not share with him but I respect him for standing up for what he believed in He took what ever punishment they dished out .He didn't run to Canada or England like a certain gentleman named William Jefferson Clinton ran to avoid the draft. Clintons "punishment" You made him President of the United States ROFLMAO
I agree he went too far at times insulting opponents especially Joe Frazier but he was really only selling the fights. I met Joe & Earnie Shavers many years ago in Dallas & talked to them both about Ali. I asked Joe if they really hated each other Joes answer was " I would not claim to be his friend & go out for a beer with him but Ive never met a man I respected more. I hit him as hard as I have ever hit any man & he never stoped coming, If I was at war in the trenches he is the man I'd like to have fighting alongside me". Earnie grinned & said " I agree with Joe"

Good post.
Nothing like personal experience.
The bolded statement is the point I was trying to make also.
It's comical to be hated by someone who wasn't even born when the guy was fighting.

Based on that analogy,

Nobody had the right to hate Adolf Hitler, because we weren't born when he was playing
'tag-your-dead'.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I never hated Cassius Clay. Or for that matter Adolf Hitler. I just think they both were a bit misguided and over-zealous, that's all."

Marlene Dietrich

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Tyson would've destroyed Ali. Marciano would've destroyed Ali. Norton DID beat Ali. Hell... let's carry it further and say Butterbean would've beat Ali. Ali wasn't all that great. He was disrespectful... he dodged the draft... he clowned opponents. Some here even refuse to use his chosen name. It's Clay this... Clay that... almost with disdain. Yet any other athlete in any other sport changes his name and we all flock to use it. What's the point in all this hate??

Was Ali TBE? Most probably not. At least in my own personal opinion. There's plenty of other fighters who could probably claim that with more backup than Ali. Is Ali an ATG? He most certainly is. He won some fights nobody thought he would win (Liston, Foreman)... and was involved in some of the sport's best classics (Ali-Frazier III). He polarized the sport. He made some people love him... made others hate him. But the result was the same. He drew people to the sport. They either wanted him to win, or wanted him destroyed.

Let's face it. Were it not for Ali during that time, boxing wouldn't have made that huge leap in popularity that made it so popular in the decades that followed.

I'd like to hear from the haters themselves. What is it about Ali that brings out the vast amount of hate? I'm just curious. Were you around when Ali was fighting? Did you hate his off the ring antics? Did his stance on Vietnam or race relations irk you? Did you take his hate relationship with Joe Frazier personally? Are you pissed that Larry Holmes (as Holmes is and will always be) never got the attention you thought he deserved because he followed in Ali's footsteps?

What?

Most of the haters of Ali are those that were not even born when Ali was actually boxing
I was I followed his career since the day I saw him fight Henry Cooper in London as a kid
we wanted to see Henry silence the Louisville Lip & even booed Clay. I Left that fight a life long fan To me Ali is THE GREATEST in & out of the ring
You say Ali dodged the draft that's why he is hated. Ali refused induction due to his religious beliefs, Beliefs I do not share with him but I respect him for standing up for what he believed in He took what ever punishment they dished out .He didn't run to Canada or England like a certain gentleman named William Jefferson Clinton ran to avoid the draft. Clintons "punishment" You made him President of the United States ROFLMAO
I agree he went too far at times insulting opponents especially Joe Frazier but he was really only selling the fights. I met Joe & Earnie Shavers many years ago in Dallas & talked to them both about Ali. I asked Joe if they really hated each other Joes answer was " I would not claim to be his friend & go out for a beer with him but Ive never met a man I respected more. I hit him as hard as I have ever hit any man & he never stoped coming, If I was at war in the trenches he is the man I'd like to have fighting alongside me". Earnie grinned & said " I agree with Joe"

Good post.
Nothing like personal experience.
The bolded statement is the point I was trying to make also.
It's comical to be hated by someone who wasn't even born when the guy was fighting.

Based on that analogy,

Nobody had the right to hate Adolf Hitler, because we weren't born when he was playing
'tag-your-dead'.

You did NOT just compare Muhammad Ali with Adolf Hitler.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Tyson would've destroyed Ali. Marciano would've destroyed Ali. Norton DID beat Ali. Hell... let's carry it further and say Butterbean would've beat Ali. Ali wasn't all that great. He was disrespectful... he dodged the draft... he clowned opponents. Some here even refuse to use his chosen name. It's Clay this... Clay that... almost with disdain. Yet any other athlete in any other sport changes his name and we all flock to use it. What's the point in all this hate??

Was Ali TBE? Most probably not. At least in my own personal opinion. There's plenty of other fighters who could probably claim that with more backup than Ali. Is Ali an ATG? He most certainly is. He won some fights nobody thought he would win (Liston, Foreman)... and was involved in some of the sport's best classics (Ali-Frazier III). He polarized the sport. He made some people love him... made others hate him. But the result was the same. He drew people to the sport. They either wanted him to win, or wanted him destroyed.

Let's face it. Were it not for Ali during that time, boxing wouldn't have made that huge leap in popularity that made it so popular in the decades that followed.

I'd like to hear from the haters themselves. What is it about Ali that brings out the vast amount of hate? I'm just curious. Were you around when Ali was fighting? Did you hate his off the ring antics? Did his stance on Vietnam or race relations irk you? Did you take his hate relationship with Joe Frazier personally? Are you pissed that Larry Holmes (as Holmes is and will always be) never got the attention you thought he deserved because he followed in Ali's footsteps?

What?

Most of the haters of Ali are those that were not even born when Ali was actually boxing
I was I followed his career since the day I saw him fight Henry Cooper in London as a kid
we wanted to see Henry silence the Louisville Lip & even booed Clay. I Left that fight a life long fan To me Ali is THE GREATEST in & out of the ring
You say Ali dodged the draft that's why he is hated. Ali refused induction due to his religious beliefs, Beliefs I do not share with him but I respect him for standing up for what he believed in He took what ever punishment they dished out .He didn't run to Canada or England like a certain gentleman named William Jefferson Clinton ran to avoid the draft. Clintons "punishment" You made him President of the United States ROFLMAO
I agree he went too far at times insulting opponents especially Joe Frazier but he was really only selling the fights. I met Joe & Earnie Shavers many years ago in Dallas & talked to them both about Ali. I asked Joe if they really hated each other Joes answer was " I would not claim to be his friend & go out for a beer with him but Ive never met a man I respected more. I hit him as hard as I have ever hit any man & he never stoped coming, If I was at war in the trenches he is the man I'd like to have fighting alongside me". Earnie grinned & said " I agree with Joe"

Good post.
Nothing like personal experience.
The bolded statement is the point I was trying to make also.
It's comical to be hated by someone who wasn't even born when the guy was fighting.

Based on that analogy,

Nobody had the right to hate Adolf Hitler, because we weren't born when he was playing
'tag-your-dead'.

You did NOT just compare Muhammad Ali with Adolf Hitler.

Don't twist words Tito.

You know 'exactly' the point I was making.

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Tyson would've destroyed Ali. Marciano would've destroyed Ali. Norton DID beat Ali. Hell... let's carry it further and say Butterbean would've beat Ali. Ali wasn't all that great. He was disrespectful... he dodged the draft... he clowned opponents. Some here even refuse to use his chosen name. It's Clay this... Clay that... almost with disdain. Yet any other athlete in any other sport changes his name and we all flock to use it. What's the point in all this hate??

Was Ali TBE? Most probably not. At least in my own personal opinion. There's plenty of other fighters who could probably claim that with more backup than Ali. Is Ali an ATG? He most certainly is. He won some fights nobody thought he would win (Liston, Foreman)... and was involved in some of the sport's best classics (Ali-Frazier III). He polarized the sport. He made some people love him... made others hate him. But the result was the same. He drew people to the sport. They either wanted him to win, or wanted him destroyed.

Let's face it. Were it not for Ali during that time, boxing wouldn't have made that huge leap in popularity that made it so popular in the decades that followed.

I'd like to hear from the haters themselves. What is it about Ali that brings out the vast amount of hate? I'm just curious. Were you around when Ali was fighting? Did you hate his off the ring antics? Did his stance on Vietnam or race relations irk you? Did you take his hate relationship with Joe Frazier personally? Are you pissed that Larry Holmes (as Holmes is and will always be) never got the attention you thought he deserved because he followed in Ali's footsteps?

What?

Most of the haters of Ali are those that were not even born when Ali was actually boxing
I was I followed his career since the day I saw him fight Henry Cooper in London as a kid
we wanted to see Henry silence the Louisville Lip & even booed Clay. I Left that fight a life long fan To me Ali is THE GREATEST in & out of the ring
You say Ali dodged the draft that's why he is hated. Ali refused induction due to his religious beliefs, Beliefs I do not share with him but I respect him for standing up for what he believed in He took what ever punishment they dished out .He didn't run to Canada or England like a certain gentleman named William Jefferson Clinton ran to avoid the draft. Clintons "punishment" You made him President of the United States ROFLMAO
I agree he went too far at times insulting opponents especially Joe Frazier but he was really only selling the fights. I met Joe & Earnie Shavers many years ago in Dallas & talked to them both about Ali. I asked Joe if they really hated each other Joes answer was " I would not claim to be his friend & go out for a beer with him but Ive never met a man I respected more. I hit him as hard as I have ever hit any man & he never stoped coming, If I was at war in the trenches he is the man I'd like to have fighting alongside me". Earnie grinned & said " I agree with Joe"

Good post.
Nothing like personal experience.
The bolded statement is the point I was trying to make also.
It's comical to be hated by someone who wasn't even born when the guy was fighting.

Based on that analogy,

Nobody had the right to hate Adolf Hitler, because we weren't born when he was playing
'tag-your-dead'.

You did NOT just compare Muhammad Ali with Adolf Hitler.

Don't twist words Tito.

You know 'exactly' the point I was making.

What.

That refusing to be drafted for the Vietnam War as a conscientious objector and making fun of opponents to help sell fights is somehow comparable to wanting to exterminate a whole race of people because you live under the twisted assumption that your own race is somehow superior to those you want to exterminate?

And by that comparison it's ok to hate both guys even if you were born after their time?
Is that the point you were making?


************************************************** ****************************

"C'mon Billy.... you know better than to try and pull a fast one over ol' TitoFan."
"Take it from me.... I tried to pull a fast one on the stock market and paid the price."

~ Martha Stewart ~

Tito Fan,

You are aware that Muhammad Ali hated 'white people' don't you.

As well as educated blacks.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Do you get the 'point' there sir."

Mamie Van Doren

I dislike Clay for many reasons , boxing is about opinions , he had his and I have mine.

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Ali not going off to fight in an immoral, barbaric war was one of the positive things about him. People have no duty to be machine gun fodder for government. Barbaric, immoral conquests to perpetuate a war machine. Good on Ali for not playing ball.

Come on now. Ali was never gonna see any action. He wasn't gonna be anywhere near the front-lines. All they wanted him to do was go around and meet the soldiers and boost up moral. He was never gonna fire a weapon.

Originally Posted by Violent Demise

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Ali not going off to fight in an immoral, barbaric war was one of the positive things about him. People have no duty to be machine gun fodder for government. Barbaric, immoral conquests to perpetuate a war machine. Good on Ali for not playing ball.

Come on now. Ali was never gonna see any action. He wasn't gonna be anywhere near the front-lines. All they wanted him to do was go around and meet the soldiers and boost up moral. He was never gonna fire a weapon.

Absolutely Right ........ ^^^^^^

United States Army Colonel > Everett Dasher Breed

"The last thing we want to do is put a Rifle in Cassius Clay's hands. He's really not that bright. There is no way
that kid should ever hold a 'Fucking' Rifle, let alone shoot one."

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

I dislike Clay for many reasons , boxing is about opinions , he had his and I have mine.

I agree with Al here.

But some people just do not like to let others have their opinions. and if those people read the same opinion a few times they get their knickers all up in a right twist. they want to make the rules about when enough is enough. Now that arrogance is much worse than a person who posts in overkill mode on a certain topic.
Don't like overkill then don't read it it's that simple.
At that point they begin resorting to calling people hypocrites and then they try to get up on their moral high horse (for the good of humanity/this forum I am OH so sure MOOHAHA) and they start to become a self-appointed bastion of fairness and hypocrite-pointer-outer.
That is much more pathetic than someone who posts over and over on a certain topic.

The reason for the hate,

Because a good portion of the public realized that Cassius Clay was 'a fraud'.

Not in his boxing ability. But in everything else.