Thread: Is Errol Spence "special"??

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

what does khan have to do to "earn a shot"?

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

Thurman is doing nothing different to everyone else. It's a food chain.

Floyd wont fight Thurman because he can make the same money against less dangerous fighters. Thurman wont fight Spence because he can currently make the same/more money against bigger names in the division.

Just because Floyd wants his boy to get fast tracked up the ladder it doesn't mean guys like Thurman are going to bend over and say go right ahead.

These guys are all with Haymon anyway, if they wanted to make the fights they would.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Originally Posted by p4pking

He looks a boss to me, nice to see a good southpaw that stands their ground like that. The guy seems very aware and patient, mean body attack, accurate and nice variety with a nasty uppercut, I like him. It didn't seem like the Italian guy he fought came with anything much though, so he clearly needs a test . Who are likely opponents for him? A few guys like Guerrero, Berto, Ortiz etc would be great, or Collazo if Thurman wasn't fighting him. He is with Golden boy right? Not sure if that hurts him getting matched up with Haymon guys or not these days. He and Crawford could be a superfight in a couple of years....

A Spence/Crawford fight would be something to see. But I am waiting patiently on a Crawford/Garcia fight, quite frankly.

Thurman says he would take the fight. But Thurman should be chasing top guys now. Plus, Thurman can knock him out, more so than anyone in the division. Not sure Spence is really for that just yet.

Ortiz, Berto, Guerrero or Soto-Karass would do well right about now.

Where did you see Thurman say he would take the fight? I ask because I've read repeatedly that Thurman isn't interested. Spence wants Thurman or Porter September 12th for a title. Neither seems interested from what I've read.

I was wrong with that, it was the other way around- Spence was the one that wants the Thurman fight. I think he may be trying to bite off more than he can chew.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

Thurman has been ducked quite carefully. For some strange reason, he is having the GGG effect. Guys just don't want to jump into fight him for pennies to the dollar. High risk vs. low reward.

Thurman should just keep fighting top 10 guys and hold his title. Sooner or later, someone has to fight him. And most likely it won't be this year, so next year he will have a big name scalp.

I think JMM (if not too old by then), Manny, Bradley or Brook would take a fight with him by next year. Just continue to hold the belt until that time.

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

Thurman is doing nothing different to everyone else. It's a food chain.

Floyd wont fight Thurman because he can make the same money against less dangerous fighters. Thurman wont fight Spence because he can currently make the same/more money against bigger names in the division.

Just because Floyd wants his boy to get fast tracked up the ladder it doesn't mean guys like Thurman are going to bend over and say go right ahead.

These guys are all with Haymon anyway, if they wanted to make the fights they would.

Big names? Like Collazo? Collazo wasn't that good at his best. A title shot is a title shot. And F names! People should fight talented fighters not names.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

F names! People should fight talented fighters not names.

Why doesn't Floyd fight Errol Spence then? If Floyd thinks he's good enough to beat Thurman or Porter then Floyd should fight him, right? Don't make sense to duck him

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

what does khan have to do to "earn a shot"?

He could have fought Brook. Same thing Thurman should be looking to do. Anyone fighting good opponents would be a huge improvement over what is going on in the sport now. Instead of top guys fighting top guys Collazo gets them all, there is something seriously wrong with that. Every fight can't marinate, some just need to be made, some people need to put up or shut up.

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

F names! People should fight talented fighters not names.

Why doesn't Floyd fight Errol Spence then? If Floyd thinks he's good enough to beat Thurman or Porter then Floyd should fight him, right? Don't make sense to duck him

I'd love to see it. Anyone fighting talented fighters is good. Let the Rios, Collazo, Alexander types fight each other and the more talented people fight each other. All i see lined up is showcase fights anymore and it gets worse all the time. Let someone prove themself so we don't have to debate it.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

what does khan have to do to "earn a shot"?

He could have fought Brook. Same thing Thurman should be looking to do. Anyone fighting good opponents would be a huge improvement over what is going on in the sport now. Instead of top guys fighting top guys Collazo gets them all, there is something seriously wrong with that. Every fight can't marinate, some just need to be made, some people need to put up or shut up.

so if khan fought brook and won then he would have earned a shot?

and if thurman was to fight brook he would have earned a shot?

is it just brook they need to fight?

what about Berto? if they fight him would they have earned a shot? or Broner?

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

F names! People should fight talented fighters not names.

Why doesn't Floyd fight Errol Spence then? If Floyd thinks he's good enough to beat Thurman or Porter then Floyd should fight him, right? Don't make sense to duck him

Again though the key difference is Floyd has fought a who's who in the sport and Thurman has not. Thurman needs challenges. Not the biggest payday in the sport. Everyone skips steps now. They want to get known, then get paid. Look at Manny, Cotto, Floyd, Hatton etcetera. They got known, won big fights, then got paid. GGG is trying to skip the big fights step, Thurman is, Khan is, Brook is it goes on and on. Everyone has a reason why they won't fight someone. It needs to go away. The new generation needs to man up. Finally. Some of the champions today have been champions for years and still haven't fought anyone good.

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

what does khan have to do to "earn a shot"?

He could have fought Brook. Same thing Thurman should be looking to do. Anyone fighting good opponents would be a huge improvement over what is going on in the sport now. Instead of top guys fighting top guys Collazo gets them all, there is something seriously wrong with that. Every fight can't marinate, some just need to be made, some people need to put up or shut up.

so if khan fought brook and won then he would have earned a shot?

and if thurman was to fight brook he would have earned a shot?

is it just brook they need to fight?

what about Berto? if they fight him would they have earned a shot? or Broner?

I see what you're doing. You're being disingenuous. Go ahead and make your winning point. I'll have an actual discussion with someone who wants to have a discussion not try to set traps. Obvious though they may be. I don't care to "win" a debate. I want people to open their damn eyes and see the promoters are selling garbage. There are good fights that should be made.

I don't know what the hell boxing fans have against good fighters fighting good fighters.

He was pretty impressive. Even does the tuck and roll from the opposite side and is yet offensive. Reminds me a little of the 135 Floyd. 135 and 12 as an amateur and won three National titles in a row. Not sure if that's been done before. Diamond in the ruff for sure.

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Looks the business so far. "Special" is pushing it a bit

I saw an interview last week with Thurman - he said he'd be happy to knock the boy out but he has a lot to prove before he's at his level. Which is fair enough.

That's a no. He might very well KO Spence but Thurman hasn't done much more than Spence, Thurman has been managed very carefully. Difference is Spence is eager to step up, Thurman is looking for a payday. Thurman should be happy to fight Spence for a title, he should be calling for Brook, these are the show me fights. But he talks about Pac and Floyd(paydays) while fighting frickin Collazo. He's no different than Khan, a talent that won't earn his shot.

what does khan have to do to "earn a shot"?

He could have fought Brook. Same thing Thurman should be looking to do. Anyone fighting good opponents would be a huge improvement over what is going on in the sport now. Instead of top guys fighting top guys Collazo gets them all, there is something seriously wrong with that. Every fight can't marinate, some just need to be made, some people need to put up or shut up.

so if khan fought brook and won then he would have earned a shot?

and if thurman was to fight brook he would have earned a shot?

is it just brook they need to fight?

what about Berto? if they fight him would they have earned a shot? or Broner?

I see what you're doing. You're being disingenuous. Go ahead and make your winning point. I'll have an actual discussion with someone who wants to have a discussion not try to set traps. Obvious though they may be. I don't care to "win" a debate. I want people to open their damn eyes and see the promoters are selling garbage. There are good fights that should be made.

I don't know what the hell boxing fans have against good fighters fighting good fighters.

mate i was just pointing out how daft you sound

thurman is a big name, some impressive performances and i dont think anyone would agrue with floyd fighting him

and khan has more than earned his shot, he has fought as many top LWW and WW contenders as anyone

neither need to fight brook to have earned their shot at anyone

they both deserve a pay day the size of what they would get if they fought mayweather

as does brook

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

F names! People should fight talented fighters not names.

Why doesn't Floyd fight Errol Spence then? If Floyd thinks he's good enough to beat Thurman or Porter then Floyd should fight him, right? Don't make sense to duck him

I'd love to see it. Anyone fighting talented fighters is good. Let the Rios, Collazo, Alexander types fight each other and the more talented people fight each other. All i see lined up is showcase fights anymore and it gets worse all the time. Let someone prove themself so we don't have to debate it.

Yeah it would be great if us fans could make the matches. But boxing is a business. It's about making money for EVERY fighter and everyone involved with them.

Back in the day, before Floyd became superduper rich, he was offered $8 million to fight Margarito and $8 million to fight Baldomir. Now everyone knows the Margarito fight was infinitely more appealing for the fans but much more dangerous for Floyd.

So Floyd took the easy option for the same money. Makes perfect sense. Now if Floyd was offered $16 million to fight Margarito i'm sure he would have taken the tougher challenge. Business.

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Fenster

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

F names! People should fight talented fighters not names.

Why doesn't Floyd fight Errol Spence then? If Floyd thinks he's good enough to beat Thurman or Porter then Floyd should fight him, right? Don't make sense to duck him

I'd love to see it. Anyone fighting talented fighters is good. Let the Rios, Collazo, Alexander types fight each other and the more talented people fight each other. All i see lined up is showcase fights anymore and it gets worse all the time. Let someone prove themself so we don't have to debate it.

Yeah it would be great if us fans could make the matches. But boxing is a business. It's about making money for EVERY fighter and everyone involved with them.

Back in the day, before Floyd became superduper rich, he was offered $8 million to fight Margarito and $8 million to fight Baldomir. Now everyone knows the Margarito fight was infinitely more appealing for the fans but much more dangerous for Floyd.

So Floyd took the easy option for the same money. Makes perfect sense. Now if Floyd was offered $16 million to fight Margarito i'm sure he would have taken the tougher challenge. Business.

and it doesnt really work this way "Let the Rios, Collazo, Alexander types fight each other "

say rios fights collazo now and wins, collazo drops down a peg, maybe he gets allexander as a last chance at that level, maybe he doesnt

rios is gonna want to fight someone with a bigger name if he can get the fight, if he cant then maybe he will fight an alexander type, if he wins that then he will be really upset if he doesnt get a bigger name

and then a bigger name fights a bigger name and loses so he would then drop down to fight a second level name to try and prove himself to fight a bigger name again

thing is he has to pick his second level name carefully otherwise he might look shit, or get little credit for his win, or even be in a styles make fights fight and lose, so the "rios, collazo, allexander" fighter gets his go at the bigger name

so in the end it would end up exactly like it is now, people trying to pick the right fights to improve their shit