Thread: Dissecting Ali hate

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by TitoFan

So this is what we have so far:

@brocktonblockbust doesn't like Ali because he's a lifelong, hardcore Marciano fan. Hardcore Marciano fans typically don't like Ali because of the inevitable comparisons. Brock struggles between hating Ali and saying nice things about him, but it pains him to do so (say nice things about him). Hence, the inconsistency.

@beenKOed doesn't like Ali for reasons I can't understand (JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!). Actually, he's made his reasons very clear. So clear that I feel compelled to mention him as

@idontlikealibecausehesadisrespectfulprick





@Bill Paxtom is still a mystery, however. He's never quite let on (in a serious manner and without the accompanying pictures) why he hates Ali. But he's consistent in his hate, and likes to make stuff up.


You guys are all cool, though.
Cheers.




(I know I left out some guys, like Dark Lord Al........ cheers, Al! But these are the more active haters on the board, so I started with them).

I dislike clay not a name he made up through his ignorance.

I'm gonna defend Ali on this one.
You're not American, so you probably don't know the names I'm going to mention right now.

Chad Johnson
Ron Artest

Chad was a wide receiver for the Cincinnati Bengals. He was a flashy, obnoxious MF, who wore the number 85 on his jersey. Being the character that he is, he decided he liked the way his name sounded in Spanish (ocho cinco). So guess what....... he LEGALLY changed his name. His jersey had to be changed to read OchoCinco, and that's his real name now. Now THAT'S ignorance.

Ron was an NBA basketball player, who was always getting thrown out of ballgames 'cause he loved to fight and was kind of a bully on the court. A real badass. He was suspended for a bunch of games for going into the stands in what turned out to be a near riot during a basketball game and punching out some fans. Well..... the guy for some f*cking reason decides to change his name to Metta World Peace. I'm not making this up. That's the guy's legal name now.

Now THOSE are ignorant people changing their names.

Now let me mention another name you might not be familiar with...... Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Saw an HBO special on his the other day. Born by the name of Lew Alcindor, he played basketball for the Los Angeles Lakers and had a storied career. He's an older man now, but very serious, very well-spoken. He changed his name due to religious beliefs. Just like Ali.

My point is there's a difference there.
Why begrudge a man's beliefs and decisions to change his name accordingly?

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Al if you dislike Ali then god knows what you make of Jack Johnson. Ali was a choirboy in comparison.

Jack Johnson was born and lived as Jack Johnson right or wrong , clay was a gullible fool.

So Ali changed his name from a slave name. Nothing wrong with that.

Ali was gullible following the nation of islam and the corruption and ideology that was in it. Their highlighting of inequality and racism was true.

Didn't his parents name him Cassius ?
Was he ever a slave ?
He was a fucking idiot.

He DID act like a fucking idiot at times. Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis NOW THEY WERE GENTLEMEN!

The Nation of Islam is nothing but a group of segregationists hiding behind a veil of "religion"....Malcolm X started to stray from the flock when he actually WENT to Mecca and saw Muslims of all colors and then he understood Elijah Muhammad was a bullshit artist who was scamming money off of loads of people to take care of his many many many children. And Malcolm X was a bum too. In boxing The NOI were no better than the Mafia, they fixed fights and bullied opponents quite a bit. All the better to line their pockets.


I don't care about a boxers politics, it shouldn't be an issue, it's a person who gets paid to punch people in the head....you want to put your faith in a brain that's taken shots from Joe Frazier and George Foreman and Earnie Shavers? Be my guest.

Originally Posted by El Kabong

The Nation of Islam is nothing but a group of segregationists hiding behind a veil of "religion"....Malcolm X started to stray from the flock when he actually WENT to Mecca and saw Muslims of all colors and then he understood Elijah Muhammad was a bullshit artist who was scamming money off of loads of people to take care of his many many many children. And Malcolm X was a bum too. In boxing The NOI were no better than the Mafia, they fixed fights and bullied opponents quite a bit. All the better to line their pockets.


I don't care about a boxers politics, it shouldn't be an issue, it's a person who gets paid to punch people in the head....you want to put your faith in a brain that's taken shots from Joe Frazier and George Foreman and Earnie Shavers? Be my guest.

I don't think we're defending Islam here as much as we're defending the right of people who change their name based on some conscientious reason, as opposed as to how it sounds in Spanish.

@TitoFan oh go eat your turkey y todo ese mofongo que Uds. comen jajaja No odio nadie mi hermano, nisiquiera ali, pero no me ghusta que el hurt the feelings deeply and irresponsibly of so many fellow black fighters who were fighting their way out of poverty and didnt need to be called gorilla/monkey/ etc... at that time in the mid-60s when things were goddam hard enough for those people already thanks to racist whites.

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Al if you dislike Ali then god knows what you make of Jack Johnson. Ali was a choirboy in comparison.

Jack Johnson was born and lived as Jack Johnson right or wrong , clay was a gullible fool.

So Ali changed his name from a slave name. Nothing wrong with that.

Ali was gullible following the nation of islam and the corruption and ideology that was in it. Their highlighting of inequality and racism was true.

Didn't his parents name him Cassius ?
Was he ever a slave ?
He was a fucking idiot.

Ali was considering changing his name to cassius X but did not, even he did call himself that I still think you would consider him an idiot.

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Al if you dislike Ali then god knows what you make of Jack Johnson. Ali was a choirboy in comparison.

Jack Johnson was born and lived as Jack Johnson right or wrong , clay was a gullible fool.

So Ali changed his name from a slave name. Nothing wrong with that.

Ali was gullible following the nation of islam and the corruption and ideology that was in it. Their highlighting of inequality and racism was true.

Didn't his parents name him Cassius ?
Was he ever a slave ?
He was a fucking idiot.

Ali was considering changing his name to cassius X but did not, even he did call himself that I still think you would consider him an idiot.

Al's point is that Cassius Clay's mother and father gave him the name Cassius so therefore he was not a slave name it was a name from his mother and father so you cannot blame the white man for his first name. Perhaps for his last name of course but not for his first name

Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by Master

Al if you dislike Ali then god knows what you make of Jack Johnson. Ali was a choirboy in comparison.

Jack Johnson was born and lived as Jack Johnson right or wrong , clay was a gullible fool.

So Ali changed his name from a slave name. Nothing wrong with that.

Ali was gullible following the nation of islam and the corruption and ideology that was in it. Their highlighting of inequality and racism was true.

Didn't his parents name him Cassius ?
Was he ever a slave ?
He was a fucking idiot.

Ali was considering changing his name to cassius X but did not, even he did call himself that I still think you would consider him an idiot.

Al's point is that Cassius Clay's mother and father gave him the name Cassius so therefore he was not a slave name it was a name from his mother and father so you cannot blame the white man for his first name. Perhaps for his last name of course but not for his first name

My point is, it would make little difference to Al.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Originally Posted by TitoFan

So this is what we have so far:

@brocktonblockbust doesn't like Ali because he's a lifelong, hardcore Marciano fan. Hardcore Marciano fans typically don't like Ali because of the inevitable comparisons. Brock struggles between hating Ali and saying nice things about him, but it pains him to do so (say nice things about him). Hence, the inconsistency.

@beenKOed doesn't like Ali for reasons I can't understand (JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!). Actually, he's made his reasons very clear. So clear that I feel compelled to mention him as

@idontlikealibecausehesadisrespectfulprick





@Bill Paxtom is still a mystery, however. He's never quite let on (in a serious manner and without the accompanying pictures) why he hates Ali. But he's consistent in his hate, and likes to make stuff up.


You guys are all cool, though.
Cheers.




(I know I left out some guys, like Dark Lord Al........ cheers, Al! But these are the more active haters on the board, so I started with them).

I dislike clay not a name he made up through his ignorance.

I'm gonna defend Ali on this one.
You're not American, so you probably don't know the names I'm going to mention right now.

Chad Johnson
Ron Artest

Chad was a wide receiver for the Cincinnati Bengals. He was a flashy, obnoxious MF, who wore the number 85 on his jersey. Being the character that he is, he decided he liked the way his name sounded in Spanish (ocho cinco). So guess what....... he LEGALLY changed his name. His jersey had to be changed to read OchoCinco, and that's his real name now. Now THAT'S ignorance.

Ron was an NBA basketball player, who was always getting thrown out of ballgames 'cause he loved to fight and was kind of a bully on the court. A real badass. He was suspended for a bunch of games for going into the stands in what turned out to be a near riot during a basketball game and punching out some fans. Well..... the guy for some f*cking reason decides to change his name to Metta World Peace. I'm not making this up. That's the guy's legal name now.

Now THOSE are ignorant people changing their names.

Now let me mention another name you might not be familiar with...... Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Saw an HBO special on his the other day. Born by the name of Lew Alcindor, he played basketball for the Los Angeles Lakers and had a storied career. He's an older man now, but very serious, very well-spoken. He changed his name due to religious beliefs. Just like Ali.

My point is there's a difference there.
Why begrudge a man's beliefs and decisions to change his name accordingly?

Never really understood why Ali decided to changed his name but that was between him, his parents, and his God as far as I was concerned. Besides he was the same prick as before so it made no difference one way or the other.

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

At the moment here in the USA we are all entitled to our own opinions. How long for the way its going who knows. The majority of people slating Ali werent even around when he was fighting & just rely on the media version of Ali. I was lucky enough to have been around to see his career as it happened & Ive also been lucky enough to have met him ,talked with him & watch how he really is when no press were around. He is an awesome person. Though I do not agree with his religious beliefs I admire the way he stood for them through all thew adversity. Just one thought put yourself in his place. How would you feel if you'd won Olympic gold. had dinner in the White House with the President were treated as a hero. THEN 2 weeks later you were refused service in a Louisville diner due to the color of your skin nothing else. Would your gold medal end up in the river too

Originally Posted by C.J.Rock

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom

Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

I Don't Hate Cassius Clay

I just bring up both 'factual' and 'concise' statements that the Young Man said.

He's not a favorite of mine, but I don't hate him.

I think he deserves everything he gets.

Good, Bad or Indifferent.

Happy Thanksgiving To All.

He was a fascinating talent, a joy to watch for years, he shattered many illusions amongst the heavyweight contenders. He had a competitive career enjoyed by all true boxing fans. He egged up his publicity with ridiculous muslim and anti war sentiments to get the younger generation, and more importantly the democrats, behind him. No bloody interest to me whatsoever in terms of politics, but I still had a few journeys to Hammersmith Odeon at midnight to watch the closed circuit TV! Boxing wise a once in a lifetime.

Very Well Said

At the moment here in the USA we are all entitled to our own opinions. How long for the way its going who knows. The majority of people slating Ali werent even around when he was fighting & just rely on the media version of Ali. I was lucky enough to have been around to see his career as it happened & Ive also been lucky enough to have met him ,talked with him & watch how he really is when no press were around. He is an awesome person. Though I do not agree with his religious beliefs I admire the way he stood for them through all thew adversity. Just one thought put yourself in his place. How would you feel if you'd won Olympic gold. had dinner in the White House with the President were treated as a hero. THEN 2 weeks later you were refused service in a Louisville diner due to the color of your skin nothing else. Would your gold medal end up in the river too

Everyone on this planet has to overcome some adversity in their life.

No one gets a 'Free' Lunch.

Originally Posted by TitoFan

I find all this Ali-obsessive hate amusing.
So I figure there's got to be one or more reasons why this hate exists in some people.
Below are some theories:

Old enough to have co-existed with Ali in his youth. Maybe you're old enough that you were a boxing fan back when Ali was in his prime. Maybe you hated Ali for refusing to be drafted. Maybe you yourself were a Vietnam (or other war) vet, and took it personally. Maybe you're a white dude who resented Ali's brash and outspoken personality. Or maybe you're a black guy who resented Ali not being "black enough" in some people's eyes.

Not old enough, but fan of another fighter you feel has been slighted in favor of Ali. Specifically..... Rocky Marciano, Larry Holmes, etc. Maybe you resent Ali for that reason. Ali and Marciano never met, so the best they could do was a "computer" matchup which in my estimation was pretty shitty. No relation to reality. In Holmes' case, it was the curse of following one of the greatest in the division, which an outlandish personality to match. Holmes always resented coming along after Ali.

Resentful of Cassius Clay changing his name to Muhammad Ali based on his Muslim religious beliefs. Maybe you don't like people who do that, and feel he should have stayed Cassius. You resent people who do that, so you may not like Kareem Abdul Jabbar too much either.

Hate his fighting style. I don't see why this should cause outright hate, so I hesitated to put it in here in the first place. Just not liking a fighter's style shouldn't cause the hate Ali gets. But just in case, it's in here. Maybe you don't like the way Ali used to pull opponents' head down... or used the rope-a-dope.... or something else.


I've actually run out of reasons. Please feel free to add your own. It's a thread for the haters, really. Not trying to change anyone's mind..... just trying to understand the bitter hate, is all.

I love Ali

He was a black man, who used his position to tell the truth to the face of white people and who stood up for black people. Did not sell out. He said that white people are a race of devils.