Thread: Would a narrow Trump loss make the survivor a better candidate?

Originally Posted by walrus

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

I'm not 100% sure how the primary system works, but it looks like Trump's campaign just gets stronger and stronger. As a history buff, a lot of his rhetoric seems to close to the rise of fascism to me, and the way that broad statements were too attractive when compared with those politicians who chose to stick with what they actually could achieve.

Clinton seems to be nailed on and although I like Bernie Sanders, he's way left of where most of the Democrats ever elected have been.

Bernie or at least Bernieism is the future of the Democratic party. Bernie has absolutely overwhelming 80-90% support from under 30 voters. For all the talk about Trump resetting the coalitions between the two big parties eventually a Bernieist will be the Democratic nominee and get elected. The Demographics in America are moving to the Democratic side about 3% every four years. In a 50 50 country that gives a basically huge game over lead to the Democrats from round about now.

Assuming Trump doesn't reset the coalitions of voters and steal a big chunk of Democrats Hillary will win but long term America will look like Bernieland.

The prevalence of a popularity in left wing politics among younger people has almost always been the case though. As people get older they will tend to become a little more conservative. The idea of a socialist country that may appear attractive in your teens and twenties become something a little more balanced as most people move into middle age.

There's been a gigantic sea change in people born after 1980. During the 50s-1980 people used to split 50-50 roughly when they got old enough to vote, the number remained a few points either side of fifty for decades. Now 1980s and afterwards are overwhelmingly lefties. The GOP is increasingly the party of older white folks.

After the 2012 the GOP produced a report (google gop autopsy) on the failed 2012 campaign and they came to the conclusion that they had to pass comprehensive immigration reform if they were ever to become competitive in national elections again. They started off well with Rubio pushing an immigration bill but then the base rebelled so much that Rubio ended up voting against his own bill so he didn't get primaried. Then Donald Trump and his wall came along.

From about 2020 or 2024 the Democrats will be unbeatable in national elections if the voting bases stay the same. Trump might just shake things up though.

Crock of shit.

Which part?

Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

This country was founded on the principle that the primary role of government is to protect property from the majority....and so it remains". I mainly know it as the quote is in a Manic Street Preachers song though...educated on rock n roll!

Check out the quote from Henry Berry, House of Delegates in 1832 on government protecting property.
I quote
"Sir, I am sick with this clamor in this debate about this property, this wealth. The right of property in slaves is entirely the creature of the positive law. All our rules of property is under control of the legislature."

I interpret that as:
1.The majority to keep property away from is the people-the minority were owners of property, while the majority aka common owned nothing. End result non property owners weren't even allowed to vote...what principles....

2. The principle(s) in which this nation was founded were addressed as the Articles of Confederation. Property owners to free masons redefined said principals via Constitution. End result: privatization of money/banking to taxation via amendment. Men like Patrick Henry who said give me liberty or give me death, was so against the ratification, he stressed the Bill of Rights to ensure said principals would be inclusive, not exclusive.

Even when you look back at the sixties, and the Summer of Love, there were large numbers of people against war and supporting left leaning parties, even into Communism and Socialism

True but...think this over...Evangelicals from Jimmy Swaggart, Pat Buchanan, Pat Roberts, Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, The Dobsons...Christians seemed okay with war, denial of voting rights to blacks, segregation against all minorities. So the liberals, hippies, didn't all turn socialism out of philosophical views. Socialists to Marxists, communists were addressing such issues that conservatives and Christians were ignoring....

, but when those people grew older, certainly in terms of those who I know who have moved closer to the center than they were back then, I do think that the population shifts right as it ages.

My take is similar...the Democratic party took on these issues, while Ronald Reagan, Christians, racists left the party and turned Republican. Leaving unsolved issues to liberals who offered government subsidies, welfare.

By 1980 a second generation actually became dependent on government for food, rent, health.
Republicans in general felt no obligation, so they just ridiculed democrats from the side line.
So I, too..even as a black man find myself lamenting over blacks to Hispanics asking for food stamps. Rental assistance. Some say that makes me conservative as I grow older.
We equate personal responsibility as conservative. It is a lie. Wealthy men like Donald Trump can skirt his responsibilities through constant bankruptcies and tax loopholes common people know nothing about. But it dIdn't make him liberal, it makes him business savvy, go figure.

Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

As Miles isn't around these days, I feel I should lift up the mantle and quote Chomsky: "This country was founded on the principle that the primary role of government is to protect property from the majority....and so it remains". I mainly know it as the quote is in a Manic Street Preachers song though...educated on rock n roll!

Even when you look back at the sixties, and the Summer of Love, there were large numbers of people against war and supporting left leaning parties, even into Communism and Socialism, but when those people grew older, certainly in terms of those who I know who have moved closer to the center than they were back then, I do think that the population shifts right as it ages.

There was a big number of hippies in the sixties but there was also an equally big establishment/counter-revolution group of new voters. You've seen Animal House. You had Bluto and D-Day but you also had Marmelade and Niedermeyer.

They have actual numbers of these things going back generations and from the Millenial generation (born 1980 and afterwards) onwards voters are now strongly Democratic in numbers they never have been before. Partisanship at least in America also tends to stick. Once you decide whether you're a righty or a lefty you tend to stay that way.

Message to the next POTUS (if not Donald Trump):

I've written you the following message free of charge. You can even claim it as your own.

"Although I've been elected POTUS, the message from the people is loud and clear. Americans are TIRED of politics as usual... tired of promises that aren't kept... tired of politicians pandering to special interests groups... tired of the same ol' same ol' when it comes to our nation's economy, foreign policy, healthcare, social issues, crime, and everything else that occupies our mind. Americans are tired of seeing the parade of politicians who, if they only exercised the same rigor to their Presidency as they had done to their campaign, we'd all be a lot better off."

"Well... let me just say that, understanding some of the skepticism that may surround me given the fact that I, and not Donald Trump, is POTUS... nevertheless I am here to assure each and every one of you that your message has been heard loud and clear. No more politics as usual. No more empty promises to fall on jaded ears. No more making people so fed up that they would vote for a man with absolutely no experience in foreign matters, or beliefs so unstable and shaky that they would put in danger all of society. The fact that Donald Trump was even a possible candidate for POTUS speaks volumes of just how tired people are of business as usual. Believe me... this message will not go ignored. I will make it my personal responsibility and the responsibility of this Administration that we will govern with the utmost passion, integrity, and energy to restore Americans' faith in our government."

Trump 755
Cruz 545

Minus-
Rubio 171
Kasich 143.
------------Republicans haven't been this divided since.....

2012: Romney 1,743 to 2nd place Santorum 267
2008: McCain 1,563 to 2nd place Romney 272
2000: Bush 1,496 to 2nd place McCain 244
1996 Bob Dole 1,926 to 2nd place Pat Buchanan 43
1988 Bush 1,139 to 2nd place Pat Robertson 31.

1976

Interesting that when Reagan was the 3rd man in 1976..making the claims that Trump makes today, he didn't Buck the tide, complain or challenge.
In fact he chose a liberal running mate...which caused him to fall in the last few polls.
(Just Like Trump is falling in the last few)

Interesting because #1. Reagan didn't know the man aka Richard Schweiker .

Sounds like he was bowing to a system/establishment that picked for him. Why else would he pick a V.P. ....He knew dick about?

1980 Reagan wanted to run with Ford...who didn't want to be a V.P. why bring this up?
Because....when it failed...at the last moment he chose Bush ..a dude he called weak.
Just like when McCain talked about politicians wasting money..like an Alaskan bridge to nowhere....then choose that very person-aka Dingbat Palin.
..

Reagan
McCain
.2 different candidates...choosing running mates......
They knew little about...and shared few interests and ideas.

Wilder is that after Reagan said he would change the climate of big business , he brought in Don Regan from Merryl Lynch...to become Secretary of Treasury.

This is the dude that was heard saying to President Reagan "
"You need to speed it up"

while giving a speech.
----please------Youtube it...then ask yourself; would the leader of the free world allow some former CEO to tell him...get on with it already??

Sounds like Ronald Reagan was everything that Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama & the next so called leader of America really is....
A God damned pawn.

Trump can't undo what has been perfected by the unknown elite. He's changed parties 5 friggin times since 1987...talk in shit about votes being potentially ignored. Hey Trump Clown!!! Votes matter when it's the presidential election as in electoral and popular.
Today it's about delegates..which are representatives...uh ..humans. Cruz has 575 representatives to do what the rules allow them to do....haggle for more in the case of a stand off....just like with Reagan...in 1976....oh, and he didn't cry thief about it.