Thread: Freddie Roach great trainer: Overated, Underated or Truly Great?

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by Hulk

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Originally Posted by erics44

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

yeah but that's what Freddie has built


they come to Freddie's gym for the sparring


that adds to his trainer ability doesn't it?

That was what Freddie inherited. Freddie was the underling. Eddie Futch is the legend Freddie's career was built on.

I don't believe he inherited all of that. He respectfully learned all he could from Futch and good ol Mickey Rourke bought Freddie that gym with his fuck money.

Freddie is a great trainer and all greats are sought out by star fighters in hopes of making them just a little better. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Freddie did his thing but he started out getting good fighters because people thought "he learned from Futch so he must be great". Truth is if you look at years Freddie won trainer of the year you will notice those years line up with when he trained great fighters and that is not a coincidence at all. Great trainers make many good fighters, great fighters make good trainers look like great trainers. Think of how Steward built his name, same thing. If you have great fighters you look great.

Great points all sides.
The Manny Steward factor is where/how i would say Emmanuel is better than Freddie.
Tommy Hearns Lennox Lewis and Wladimir Klitschko all developed a skill set. Similar in style. Reach and use of jab.
Freddie doesnt seem to have a standout regiment that develops an identified style.

Yet as said above....his gym totally outranks Kronk gym.

Could Freddie have spread himself too thin? Someone would get lesser time....and pay for it.

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Initially I thought he was fortunate to get Virgil Hill, James Toney and Manny Pacquiao.
First time I really paid attention he was in the corner of a guy named Justin Juuko.
I am VERY impressed with the list below. I didn't know he worked with so many greats.

But how many fighters did he rear and mold? His work with Hopkins he lost. Same with DLH, Cotto and now Postal.


United Kingdom British −Amir Khan Light Welterweight
Philippines Filipino −Ana Julaton(w) Super Bantamweight
Mexico Mexican Andy Ruiz Heavyweight
Philippines Filipino Dennis Bautista Featherweight
Republic of Ireland Irish −Bernard Dunne Super Bantamweight
United States American −Bernard Hopkins Light Heavyweight
Philippines Filipino Bobby Pacquiao Lightweight
United States American Brian Minto Cruiserweight
United States American −Brian Viloria Flyweight
United Kingdom British Craig McEwan Middleweight
United States American Daniel Jacobs Middleweight
United States American David Rodela Super Featherweight
Russia Russian −Dimitri Kirilov Super Flyweight
Philippines Filipino Diosdado Gabi Bantamweight
United States American Efrain Esquivias, Jr. Super Bantamweight
United States American −Frankie Liles Super Middleweight
United Kingdom British −Gary Stretch Super Welterweight
Cuba Cuban *Guillermo Rigondeaux Super Bantamweight
Philippines Filipino −Gerry Peñalosa Bantamweight
Mexico Mexican −Israel Vasquez Super Bantamweight
United States American −James Toney Heavyweight
Republic of Ireland Irish Jamie Kavanagh Lightweight
Canada Canadian -Jean Pascal Light heavyweight
Denmark Danish −Johnny Bredahl Bantamweight
United States American −Johnny Tapia Bantamweight
Venezuela Venezuelan −Jorge Linares Lightweight
United States American José Benavidez Light Welterweight
Mexico Mexican Juan Lazcano Lightweight
Mexico Mexican −Julio César Chávez, Jr. Middleweight
Armenia Armenian Kahren Harutyunyan Bantamweight
Nigeria Nigerian Kingsley Ikeke Super Middleweight
Nigeria Nigerian Lateef Kayode Cruiserweight
Netherlands Dutch −Lucia Rijker(w) Light Welterweight
Philippines Filipino -Manny Pacquiao Welterweight
United States American −Marlon Starling Welterweight
Philippines Filipino Michael Domingo Bantamweight
Philippines Filipino Michael Farenas Super Featherweight
United States American − Michael Moorer Light Heavyweight
United States American Mickey Rourke Light Heavyweight
Puerto Rico Puerto Rican *Miguel Cotto Middleweight
United States American −Mike Tyson Heavyweight
United States American −Oscar De La Hoya Welterweight Only for his fight with Mayweather (2007).
Jamaica Jamaican −O'Neil Bell Cruiserweight
United States American Peter Manfredo Jr. Middleweight
United States American Peter Quillin Middleweight
United States American Frankie Gómez Junior Welterweight
Mexico Mexican Raymundo Beltrán Lightweight
Philippines Filipino Rey Bautista Featherweight
Russia Russian −Roman Karmazin Light Heavyweight
Russia Russian Ruslan Provodnikov Light Welterweight
Republic of Ireland Irish −Steve Collins Super Middleweight
Armenia Armenian Vanes Martirosyan Super Welterweight
United States American −Virgil Hill Light Heavyweight
Northern Ireland Northern Irish −Wayne McCullough Featherweight
Ukraine Ukrainian *Wladimir Klitschko Heavyweight (former assistant trainer)
Nigeria Nigerian Wale Omotoso Welterweight
United States American Willie Jorrin Super Bantamweight
China Chinese Zou Shiming Flyweight


Excuse the cut n paste job

What's Freddie's win/loss record with all these fights?

That's too great a task for me!!!!!!!

And these are the known fighters.

Justin Juuko isn't on here.

I think Freddy Roach is a special case in that he had worked with Futch as an unpaid assistant for a while. Mickey Rourke fell into his lap via Chuck Vito and Mickey paid for The Wild Card Gym and all the equipment. Freddie Roach has talent as a trainer, he's not the best but he's not the worst. But I think the biggest thing he has going is The Wild Card Gym and that is due to Mickey Rourke being one of his first boxers.

That gym attracts talent, maybe as much talent as Roach attracts. I wonder if other trainers had such nice gyms what talents they could develop.

Originally Posted by mikeeod

I think Freddie is a great trainer, and definitely don't think he is underrated. James Toney, Manny, and Cotto all fought well with him in their corners. It's like saying Manny Steward wasn't great because Jermain Taylor fought like shit during their time together. Roach, Manny Steward, Eddie Futch, Bouie Fisher, Georgie Benton, brother Naz, and both Mayweathers are/were great trainers. All have had failures, because that is fighting, but all taught pupils a style that brought them to an elite level.

If we are talking overrated boxing trainers my #1 poster boy is Teddy Atlas. He's an overrated commentator in my opinion as well. If we are talking overrated regardless of discipline, I have Steven Seagal as #1 hype job.

Teddy atlas is not a trainer

He's a fucking fireman

Originally Posted by El Kabong

I think Freddy Roach is a special case in that he had worked with Futch as an unpaid assistant for a while. Mickey Rourke fell into his lap via Chuck Vito and Mickey paid for The Wild Card Gym and all the equipment. Freddie Roach has talent as a trainer, he's not the best but he's not the worst. But I think the biggest thing he has going is The Wild Card Gym and that is due to Mickey Rourke being one of his first boxers.

That gym attracts talent, maybe as much talent as Roach attracts. I wonder if other trainers had such nice gyms what talents they could develop.

About 98% of all work in boxing is unpaid.
The Wild Card is not some sparkling facility, at least not when I was there. The gym where Omar Figueroa trains is nicer, in terms of equipment and space.

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

How many of those guys did he teach? Mostly he gets finished products and then gets them ready for fights.
I think that, if you took a survey, the top reason fighters get sent to Wild Card is not a few rounds a week on mitts with Freddie. The main reason is access to top level sparring.

Well put top level sparring I can't think of one fighter he's had man and boy,! unlike Stewart who produced fighters, Brendan Ingel is one more comes to mind.

I think Freddie is truly great, but like any trainer he needs a fighter with the mindset and abilities to mesh with his philosophies. I view Freddie's impact on Pac similar to Manny Steward's impact on Lennox, Wlad...etc. At the end of the day though, these trainers can't get in and fight for their guys and sometimes no amount of advice/expertise will overcome physical advantages (Floyd vs Manny...etc.).

Robert Garcia, Freddie, Abel Sanchez, Mayweathers...etc., are great trainers. There is a significant gap these days, with no Bouie Fisher, Georgie Benton, Bill Miller...etc. It's why I wish Hop, Floyd, JMM...etc., would start training guys.

Originally Posted by greynotsoold

About 98% of all work in boxing is unpaid.
The Wild Card is not some sparkling facility, at least not when I was there. The gym where Omar Figueroa trains is nicer, in terms of equipment and space.

Yeah but I am certain that better trainers haven't had gyms just land in their laps like Roach had. Between Mickey Rourke and James Toney Freddie Roach was set up quite nicely. And the gym is in LA which is a breeding ground for talent and magnet for those who want to make it big in boxing.

Who is in Figueroa's gym? Are there big time fighters in there? I honestly don't know, but I do know that Roach trains Pacquiao and when you have a stud like that in your gym it'll bring talent along....talent attracts talent.

Roach wasn't lucky to get all those top fighters. The top fighters can go to anybody they want, no trainer is going to turn down 10% of ongoing million/multimillion purses. Fighters go to him because he's got a track record of improving upcoming fighters and champions and of having the right gameplan to win fights.

There's no guarantee that just because he worked under Futch he was going to do anything. How many other guys worked under Futch or Dundee or any of the other old school top trainers and got nowhere?

There's no guarantee that Somodio or whoever has worked under Roach is going to do anything either. You've either got it or you haven't.

Merged the thread

Originally Posted by Master

Merged the thread

That's why you get paid the big bucks

Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Roach wasn't lucky to get all those top fighters. The top fighters can go to anybody they want, no trainer is going to turn down 10% of ongoing million/multimillion purses. Fighters go to him because he's got a track record of improving upcoming fighters and champions and of having the right gameplan to win fights.

There's no guarantee that just because he worked under Futch he was going to do anything. How many other guys worked under Futch or Dundee or any of the other old school top trainers and got nowhere?

There's no guarantee that Somodio or whoever has worked under Roach is going to do anything either. You've either got it or you haven't.

Good point .but here is another question--Isn't that standard when ANY trainer gets a winning fighter in the spotlight?

Example: Buddy Mcgirt fighter Tarver beats RJJ. Not only was he called trainer of the year...known fighters went his way as a result. Nate Campbell, Jameel McCline, Arturo Gatti.
Did he really improve these guys? Some new fighter at that time..Mike Anchondo I think...
Paulie Malinaggi came and left within 2 fights.

My point is that just like Roach ..with one success story Tarver for McGirt & Pac for Roach. ..is when their training stock...went up.
Who did Roach break out post Pac to validate his expertise? Khan? LOL!
I really liked what I saw of Lateef Kayode live...
Today he has shown no progress.

Im not saying Roach hasn't. . ..just saying, if so; whom else?

Ronnie Shields is another imo. Had a lot of known fighters after Tyson...but as soon as Juan Baby Bull Diaz got a title. ...his stock shot up. Very sought after. End result ..all his fighters got their asses torn of the henges.