Phuck Margacheato!!! I hope Cotto punishes him, and I dont even like cotto...

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by #1FightFan

Never been a fan of Cotto, but I hope Cotto beats Margacheatos ass!!!

Margacheato dont deserve to even be in a boxing match, let alone a big payday like this one. I hope karma has a say in this.....

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Enough with the nonsense already. The man has paid his debt to society. He served the punishment that was given to him. I see no reason why his right to earn a living in the country he was born be taken away

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What debt did he pay to "society"? Did he do time, work for a charity, do community service, or anything of merit towards society? And lets stop acting like his right to work was taken away. He was only suspended from "boxing" for a year.

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He served the punishment that was given to him. What more was he suppose to do? He didn't get to pick his punishment. It was given to him. And he served it. Case close

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I'm surprised to see you VD supporting a punk bitch like Margarito! You say a lot of fun stuff & tell it how you see it but I never thought you'd stick up for such a disgrace.

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I do tell it like I see it. And you know what I saw? I saw Cotto take 267 punches (237 of them power shots) from a much bigger man. Wraps were not needed to beat Cotto. 267 punches from a bigger, stronger fighter are gonna bust you up regardless. It amazes me how the Cotto groupies, the Margaito bashers and even Cotto himself always seem to ignore the fact that he took over 260 punches. And that just might be the reason he lost.

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I'm not a Cotto supporter & even bring their 1st fight into question. Margarito got caught with the wraps before the Mosley fight & thats all she wrote! He attempted to cheat in the worst way possible & is a disgrace to the sport imo

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You're one of the few people here who opinions I ponder over when it opposes mine. Maybe I'm wrong? Is it possible? At times the possibility is there. Not on this one. This one I understand. You been following the sport a long time. I consider you a boxing fan. As oppose to just a certain fighters fan. Which is why I acknowledge them. Take away the bias and hatred towards the suspect I don't understand why it's so hard to accept Margarito's story about not knowing. I can't recall if you ever mention having fought before or not. In my lifetime I participated 22 amateur fights. I been around several fighters while they got there hands wrapped. Many times I seen fighters with there heads down. Eyes close. Alone with there thoughts. Others I seen with ear phones on. Into whatever they are listening to. I seen one fighter praying with his minister as he got his hands wrapped. Point is none were paying attention to the wrapping. Until now very few did. Margarito saying he didn't know is very believable. And normal. Why his excuse is laugh at and dismiss so easily to this day stumps me

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The flip side, is, take away the bias that some people have for Margarito, and what's the basis for accepting his story? The entirety of the evidence for Margarito's not knowing is that he says so. Well, of course he says so. That evidence can pretty much be discounted out of hand, as he has a bias in professing his innocence. Guess what Luis Resto's story was? He didn't know. Margarito's story is the same as every guilty person's story - "I didn't do it." (the exception being those whose guilt is so incontrovertible that they have to admit it and cut a deal)

Of course, that's also the same as every innocent person's story. It doesn't mean he did it; it just doesn't provide much of a reason for thinking he didn't do it, either.

The reasons for thinking he did do it vary. He has looked markedly worse in his last three fights than he did previously. That's pretty flimsy, but it's something. (And it's not flimsier than believing he's innocent because he says so).

Ultimately, it's a lot simpler than that, for me. First, we have his own statement that he would have known. If we accept that statement, then the only way he's innocent is if he had illegal wraps for the very first time ever against Cotto. And I don't believe it for the same reason I don't think the cops who beat the hell out of Rodney King never did it before. Because people who cheat/commit crimes don't usually get caught the first time they do it. Most people get caught after they've gotten away with something a bunch of times. With all the money on the line for winning a world championship, and building your reputation, we're supposed to believe that he (and/or Capetillo) never did it before for more than 40 fights, then when he's 30 years old, after winning multiple world titles, for the very first time ever, Capetillo decides he's going to cheat, he doesn't tell Margarito, and he happens to get caught that very time? It's possible, but on balance, I think it's a lot less likely.

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So who is saying that Margarito cheated in the Cotto fight? Cotto and a bunch of Cotto fans here and because they say so we are suppose to believe that Margarito did cheat?? I really dont know the process in getting wrapped but is no one from the athletic commission there to watch the wrapping of the hands? I would think that they have to be there and if they were and they ok'd the wraps I would say that should put an end to all the arguments about that fight.

Cotto was a graceful loser in that fight and he never complained as were his supporters but in the last few weeks when he opened his mouth and brought it up on 24/7 so did the boards start circulating in here. Bottomline Cotto lost, if what he believes is true then we will see him win on Saturday then all you Margarito bashers can have a field day until then better stay quiet, if Margarito wins again what will you all say then??

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It's beyond dispute that he was wrapped illegally for the Mosley fight, and there was a representative from the athletic commission present, so it seems a little odd to suggest that the fact that an athletic commissioner there for the Cotto fight "should put an end to all the arguments" about it.

What will you say if Cotto wins the rematch decisively?

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If Cotto wins clearly they should remove the first loss to him off his record, and off this they could also get a better idea if margarito was using plaster before getting in there with mosley. Then possibly never let him box again. On the other hand if Margarito wins there will be no excuse for Cotto and I will probably cry.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

Yes well said, I appreciate what your saying VD & thats your opinion. I did fight both amateur & pro. I have a pic of one of my fights as my avatar. I know what your saying, every fighter is different when it comes to getting their hands wrapped. But at the end of the day imo it is the fighters responsiblity & he should be held accountable to some degree. How would Margarito have felt if he had killed Mosley & not known? He has to take some responsiblity. I agree he has served the punishment given him but feel it was not stern enough given the potential consequences

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Oh of course. Margarito getting punished was not something I disagreed with. I believed Shane Mosley and Fernando Vargas when they said they didn't know what they took or injected. But at the same time it was one of there team members that did it. So with it being there team they shoulder the responsibilty for it. Capetillo was on Margarito's team. So he was punished. Fine that's not the problem. The problem is he's being called a cheator for something he knew nothing about. Mosley and Vargas never recieved that kind of treatment. Why does Margarito? The man has no criminal record. He doesn't drink or use drugs. He's a married man who has always came into the ring in excellent shape. And even in th ring he's never had a reputation as a dirty fighter. So why is the word of this honest, hard working man doubted?

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I'm not sure on your view of PEDs but what do you think is more severe? Entering the ring after training on PEDs or having plaster in your gloves? Margarito was the one who was going to be throwing punches in the Mosley fight.

If you gave me a gun that I say i didn't know was loaded & I shot someone do you think the jury would take it easy on me? I'm a hard working man!

My feeling is the punishment didn't fit the crime

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They can pull a involuntary manslaughter charge. No way they get a murder charge. But than again the circumstances surrounding the incident would factor in. Anyway on what you asked. I consider PED usage to be cheating. Not to the extent of loaded gloves cuz It doesn't present the present danger at that moment like loaded gloves would. But it's still is cheating. And does provide an unfair advantage.

But that's bedsides the point. Cuz when you look at things, Vargas, Mosley and the rest actually got to cheat. Margarito didn't. You say the punishment doesn't fit the crime. He never committed a crime. Attempting isn't committing. And no I'm not changing my views regarding him knowing or not. I'm just coming from a different angle

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this makes absolutely no sense what so ever, id go as far to say it is utter bollox, sorry man

dont kid yourself, matgarito is a cheat yes but so is mosley on the same level

Mosley, Jones, Vitali Klitschko, Toney - all cheaters in my book and they shouldn't be inducted into the HOF. Margarito's sin was much worse than the rest of the lot IMO, he should have never been able to box again. I don't believe for a second that any of these guys didn't know what they were taking/putting in their gloves

Well as far as steriods i mean its cheating only if you get caught using them in my book. I mean the only thing to me that can tarnish you for using them is if you get caught with them.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by blegit

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by #1FightFan

Never been a fan of Cotto, but I hope Cotto beats Margacheatos ass!!!

Margacheato dont deserve to even be in a boxing match, let alone a big payday like this one. I hope karma has a say in this.....

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Enough with the nonsense already. The man has paid his debt to society. He served the punishment that was given to him. I see no reason why his right to earn a living in the country he was born be taken away

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What debt did he pay to "society"? Did he do time, work for a charity, do community service, or anything of merit towards society? And lets stop acting like his right to work was taken away. He was only suspended from "boxing" for a year.

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He served the punishment that was given to him. What more was he suppose to do? He didn't get to pick his punishment. It was given to him. And he served it. Case close

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I'm surprised to see you VD supporting a punk bitch like Margarito! You say a lot of fun stuff & tell it how you see it but I never thought you'd stick up for such a disgrace.

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I do tell it like I see it. And you know what I saw? I saw Cotto take 267 punches (237 of them power shots) from a much bigger man. Wraps were not needed to beat Cotto. 267 punches from a bigger, stronger fighter are gonna bust you up regardless. It amazes me how the Cotto groupies, the Margaito bashers and even Cotto himself always seem to ignore the fact that he took over 260 punches. And that just might be the reason he lost.

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I'm not a Cotto supporter & even bring their 1st fight into question. Margarito got caught with the wraps before the Mosley fight & thats all she wrote! He attempted to cheat in the worst way possible & is a disgrace to the sport imo

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You're one of the few people here who opinions I ponder over when it opposes mine. Maybe I'm wrong? Is it possible? At times the possibility is there. Not on this one. This one I understand. You been following the sport a long time. I consider you a boxing fan. As oppose to just a certain fighters fan. Which is why I acknowledge them. Take away the bias and hatred towards the suspect I don't understand why it's so hard to accept Margarito's story about not knowing. I can't recall if you ever mention having fought before or not. In my lifetime I participated 22 amateur fights. I been around several fighters while they got there hands wrapped. Many times I seen fighters with there heads down. Eyes close. Alone with there thoughts. Others I seen with ear phones on. Into whatever they are listening to. I seen one fighter praying with his minister as he got his hands wrapped. Point is none were paying attention to the wrapping. Until now very few did. Margarito saying he didn't know is very believable. And normal. Why his excuse is laugh at and dismiss so easily to this day stumps me

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The flip side, is, take away the bias that some people have for Margarito, and what's the basis for accepting his story? The entirety of the evidence for Margarito's not knowing is that he says so. Well, of course he says so. That evidence can pretty much be discounted out of hand, as he has a bias in professing his innocence. Guess what Luis Resto's story was? He didn't know. Margarito's story is the same as every guilty person's story - "I didn't do it." (the exception being those whose guilt is so incontrovertible that they have to admit it and cut a deal)

Of course, that's also the same as every innocent person's story. It doesn't mean he did it; it just doesn't provide much of a reason for thinking he didn't do it, either.

The reasons for thinking he did do it vary. He has looked markedly worse in his last three fights than he did previously. That's pretty flimsy, but it's something. (And it's not flimsier than believing he's innocent because he says so).

Ultimately, it's a lot simpler than that, for me. First, we have his own statement that he would have known. If we accept that statement, then the only way he's innocent is if he had illegal wraps for the very first time ever against Cotto. And I don't believe it for the same reason I don't think the cops who beat the hell out of Rodney King never did it before. Because people who cheat/commit crimes don't usually get caught the first time they do it. Most people get caught after they've gotten away with something a bunch of times. With all the money on the line for winning a world championship, and building your reputation, we're supposed to believe that he (and/or Capetillo) never did it before for more than 40 fights, then when he's 30 years old, after winning multiple world titles, for the very first time ever, Capetillo decides he's going to cheat, he doesn't tell Margarito, and he happens to get caught that very time? It's possible, but on balance, I think it's a lot less likely.

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So who is saying that Margarito cheated in the Cotto fight? Cotto and a bunch of Cotto fans here and because they say so we are suppose to believe that Margarito did cheat?? I really dont know the process in getting wrapped but is no one from the athletic commission there to watch the wrapping of the hands? I would think that they have to be there and if they were and they ok'd the wraps I would say that should put an end to all the arguments about that fight.

Cotto was a graceful loser in that fight and he never complained as were his supporters but in the last few weeks when he opened his mouth and brought it up on 24/7 so did the boards start circulating in here. Bottomline Cotto lost, if what he believes is true then we will see him win on Saturday then all you Margarito bashers can have a field day until then better stay quiet, if Margarito wins again what will you all say then??

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It's beyond dispute that he was wrapped illegally for the Mosley fight, and there was a representative from the athletic commission present, so it seems a little odd to suggest that the fact that an athletic commissioner there for the Cotto fight "should put an end to all the arguments" about it.

What will you say if Cotto wins the rematch decisively?

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IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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Originally Posted by Onix

IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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We'll find out really soon!

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Galaxy

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by erics44

taking peds is just as severe as having the plaster in the gloves that margarito did

peds make you 20% faster 20% quicker on your feet 20% stronger 20% harder punch, probably even help you take a punch better

if you believe what margarito did was any more severe or dangerous to his opponents than what mosely or holyfield or toney or klitchko did then you are very naive

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This sounds like the more naive position to me. How come NONE of their opponents came out looking like Billy Collins?! All world champion caliber; contrast with LUIS FREAKIN' RESTO. Washed-up journeyma vs. A solid prospect. Luis Resto + 20% doesn't give you Billy Collins.

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I love the percentages! Basically they make you train for longer & recover faster. Improving your performance. To think that is as dangerous as having cement in your gloves seems very naive

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the percentages are a pretty good guess, bodybuilders will increase strength by about 20% when on a steriod cycle, sometimes more sometimes less and these are steriods that are bought off somebodies mates mate

imagine in mosleys position, he more than likely has access to better gear :)

the billy collins example is a one off too, how many other examples of that type have there been?

its a naive attitude that the way the roiders are cheating is any more acceptable than the way margarito did

are you defending mosley? was his cheatuing acceptable?

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I'm not defending Mosley & like VD said he only got caught attempting to cheat. But imo using plaster wraps would definitely be more dangerous than using PEDs.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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We'll find out really soon!

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Personally, I don't recall ever making outrageous excuses or disappearing from the forum when a fav fighter of mine loses. Onix, you're free to look up any examples to the contrary.

Hey, if Cotto loses, obviously it won't be due to any plaster this time. I'm sure Margacheato's wraps will be looked at under a microscope. And Cotto I believe has prepared as well as I guess he's capable of preparing. (I'm not necessarily happy that he changed from Emanuel Stewart to this unknown entity, but that's another story).

No... if Cotto loses, I'll accept it and move on. I'll still be here, taking my lumps along with the rest of the Cotto fans. I'll still be a Cotto fan..... and I'll still hate Margacheato's guts (for the piece of shit human being I believe he is). But I'll accept defeat graciously.

How's that?

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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We'll find out really soon!

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Personally, I don't recall ever making outrageous excuses or disappearing from the forum when a fav fighter of mine loses. Onix, you're free to look up any examples to the contrary.

Hey, if Cotto loses, obviously it won't be due to any plaster this time. I'm sure Margacheato's wraps will be looked at under a microscope. And Cotto I believe has prepared as well as I guess he's capable of preparing. (I'm not necessarily happy that he changed from Emanuel Stewart to this unknown entity, but that's another story).

No... if Cotto loses, I'll accept it and move on. I'll still be here, taking my lumps along with the rest of the Cotto fans. I'll still be a Cotto fan..... and I'll still hate Margacheato's guts (for the piece of shit human being I believe he is). But I'll accept defeat graciously.

How's that?

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I just dont understand why such hate, I mean we think he cheated on the cotto fight but if he wins it might make us think he didnt cheat in that fight, then what is he still the same piece of garbage?

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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We'll find out really soon!

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Personally, I don't recall ever making outrageous excuses or disappearing from the forum when a fav fighter of mine loses. Onix, you're free to look up any examples to the contrary.

Hey, if Cotto loses, obviously it won't be due to any plaster this time. I'm sure Margacheato's wraps will be looked at under a microscope. And Cotto I believe has prepared as well as I guess he's capable of preparing. (I'm not necessarily happy that he changed from Emanuel Stewart to this unknown entity, but that's another story).

No... if Cotto loses, I'll accept it and move on. I'll still be here, taking my lumps along with the rest of the Cotto fans. I'll still be a Cotto fan..... and I'll still hate Margacheato's guts (for the piece of shit human being I believe he is). But I'll accept defeat graciously.

How's that?

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I just dont understand why such hate, I mean we think he cheated on the cotto fight but if he wins it might make us think he didnt cheat in that fight, then what is he still the same piece of garbage?

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He still tried to cheat in the Moseley fight. That's enough for me. Add to that how much of a prick he comes off as outside the ring, and I get (and share) the negative reaction.

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Originally Posted by Onix

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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We'll find out really soon!

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Personally, I don't recall ever making outrageous excuses or disappearing from the forum when a fav fighter of mine loses. Onix, you're free to look up any examples to the contrary.

Hey, if Cotto loses, obviously it won't be due to any plaster this time. I'm sure Margacheato's wraps will be looked at under a microscope. And Cotto I believe has prepared as well as I guess he's capable of preparing. (I'm not necessarily happy that he changed from Emanuel Stewart to this unknown entity, but that's another story).

No... if Cotto loses, I'll accept it and move on. I'll still be here, taking my lumps along with the rest of the Cotto fans. I'll still be a Cotto fan..... and I'll still hate Margacheato's guts (for the piece of shit human being I believe he is). But I'll accept defeat graciously.

How's that?

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I just dont understand why such hate, I mean we think he cheated on the cotto fight but if he wins it might make us think he didnt cheat in that fight, then what is he still the same piece of garbage?

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Onix, this is just my opinion, but..... if Margarito wins again, obviously it will be fair-and-square, especially with all the scrutiny he's undergoing. BUT.... it doesn't rule out that he may have cheated in the first fight.

Remember:

1. He was caught trying to cheat against Mosely. That alone can cast a reasonable doubt over previous fights, especially since Cotto's face was so badly damaged from those blows. Other fighters, including Cotto have gotten hit that many times before and not suffered the damage Cotto did.

2. Among the pluses and minuses for this upcoming fight, Margarito holds one particular edge over Cotto.... the psychological edge. Once you've taking such a pounding like Cotto did, it's hard to overcome that when you're facing the same fighter again. Cotto may have bounced back against other opponents after Margarito, but we don't know until the bell sounds how he'll react to getting hit by Margarito again.

Finally..... win or lose, Margarito has made it his business to be seen as the bad guy. He says so himself. So much so, and such a good job he's done.... that I've gotten caught up in the hate. Interestingly enough, I didn't hate Margarito when he was first making a name for himself. He seemed like a personable enough dude. But then you start adding up all the stuff he does and the way he acts.... and it's gotten so I just can't stand the guy.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

2. Among the pluses and minuses for this upcoming fight, Margarito holds one particular edge over Cotto.... the psychological edge.

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I don't think Margarito has the psychological edge. If you watch the Kellerman interview, Margarito is very excitable as he reminds Cotto and Kellerman that he won the first fight, and Cotto is very calm as he, "Yes, and I've lived with that." If Margarito cheated in the first fight, then he may have to convince himself that he could win without loaded gloves. And if Cotto thinks Margarito cheated, whether he did or not, and he seems to, then that sort of eliminates the typical psychological disadvantage. Cotto seems supremely confident to me; I think he's of the opinion that he never would have lost to Margarito without loaded gloves, and the gloves will be good this time, so no problem. Given the lingering doubts about the gloves in the first fight, and the pressure on Margarito to prove that he can beat Cotto fair and square, I think if anything, Cotto has a psychological edge, and their demeanors reflected that.

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

2. Among the pluses and minuses for this upcoming fight, Margarito holds one particular edge over Cotto.... the psychological edge.

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I don't think Margarito has the psychological edge. If you watch the Kellerman interview, Margarito is very excitable as he reminds Cotto and Kellerman that he won the first fight, and Cotto is very calm as he, "Yes, and I've lived with that." If Margarito cheated in the first fight, then he may have to convince himself that he could win without loaded gloves. And if Cotto thinks Margarito cheated, whether he did or not, and he seems to, then that sort of eliminates the typical psychological disadvantage. Cotto seems supremely confident to me; I think he's of the opinion that he never would have lost to Margarito without loaded gloves, and the gloves will be good this time, so no problem. Given the lingering doubts about the gloves in the first fight, and the pressure on Margarito to prove that he can beat Cotto fair and square, I think if anything, Cotto has a psychological edge, and their demeanors reflected that.

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Good point.... you might be right. But typically, the psychological edge I mentioned does exist. This may be an atypical situation, though.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

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Originally Posted by Onix

IF Cotto wins then I will congradulate him and call it a night and depending on the way it all goes down It will strengthen my position that he did cheat but will Cotto fans be able to do the same??

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We'll find out really soon!

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Personally, I don't recall ever making outrageous excuses or disappearing from the forum when a fav fighter of mine loses. Onix, you're free to look up any examples to the contrary.

Hey, if Cotto loses, obviously it won't be due to any plaster this time. I'm sure Margacheato's wraps will be looked at under a microscope. And Cotto I believe has prepared as well as I guess he's capable of preparing. (I'm not necessarily happy that he changed from Emanuel Stewart to this unknown entity, but that's another story).

No... if Cotto loses, I'll accept it and move on. I'll still be here, taking my lumps along with the rest of the Cotto fans. I'll still be a Cotto fan..... and I'll still hate Margacheato's guts (for the piece of shit human being I believe he is). But I'll accept defeat graciously.

How's that?

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Stupid is not something Cotto is. The dismissal of Stewart was planned. It's his build in excuse when he loses on Saturday. Planned damage control. It's not much. But what else is he gonna use? He's in excellent shape. His opponent is coming off a serious eye injury. It's just about a guarantee that the wraps will not be an issue. And he's pretty much fighting in his home field. It's not his home but he will have the crowd behind him. So there's nothing else he can point too. He knew that months ago. Releasing Stewart was pretty much his only option. Like I said it ain't much but it's something

lol