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First Lacy and then Kessler! If he destroys Hopkins in the same fashion he did with the prior two I fell as though Calzaghe should be P4P king of the world. That's saying alot considering PBF has a hell of a resume including Pac, but I just see Joe making the jump here. THE BRITISH ARE COMING THE BRITISH ARE COMING, the strip is going to be packed with them the weekend of the fight
I'm a Calzaghe fan. I like him a lot, nice style, work ethic and a diligent trainer. Have watched most of his fights and followed him for a while now. But I couldn't really justify him being placed as p4p No.1.
Currently I have him located in the upper regions of the top 5. However at the top of the scale we have placed; Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao.
There are issues which need to be addressed. Pacquiao's last performance was less than stellar, many feeling he barely squeaked over the line to victory. However as the fight was with a fellow pound for pound ranked fighter, he is forgiven and should remain ranked behind Mayweather alone.
Floyd's ranking is more of a hazed issue. Floyd's inactivity is the only detail which casts a shadow of doubt onto his supremacy.
Can we justify his spot atop the rankings although he is blatantly refusing to fight? Can a fight later in the year (even a victory over DLH) adequatly endorse his skill to allow him the number 1 spot?
Well thats for you guys to decide, but even if he is removed (he's no.1 or not included he won't slip) Calz is still behind Pac, because of competition.
p4p is impossible to judge. Do you go on resume? if so, how far back? or do you go on how unbeatable they look?
As a fan of Joe I rate him high, IMO he's technically better than Pacqiao with fewer exploitable weaknesses, but behind Floyd in the same department. If he beats B-hop, IMO his resume over last few years compares favourably with Floyd's, but well behind the names on Pac's record.
I still have Floyd No.1 due to his remarkeble talent, then Pac second then Joe. After that it gets even hazier.
That's pretty much what I would say too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomp
Beating Hopkins doesn't mean Joe could beat Floyd P4P. I'd CONFIDENTLY back Cazlaghe to beat Pac P4P whether he beats Hopkins or not.
No way Mayweather has beaten many more quality opponents than Calzaghe, he also has many more achievements. And plus P4P Mayweather would beat Calzaghe so how exactly should Calzaghe be above Mayweather P4P ??
He won to Kessler , but in that Div. still having more great and competitive challenger , after this fight with B.H. , he need to fight with others Champ and classified #1 in that Div.....
http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/23...600x600Q85.jpg
I think if Calzaghe was to beat Hopkins soundly, ie knock him out or
totally dominate him I would put him at no2 p4p, but still wouldnt put him ahead of Mayweather, be intresting if De La Hoya was to ko Floyd though :detective:
If Joe beats Hopkins then yeah he'd be p4p number 1 and If Hop beats Joe I'd put him at number 1 .
Floyds inactive and his next 2 fights are likley to be against Oscar and Hatton again so fighting guys coming off losses doesnt do it for me. Its Joes time now . Move over Floyd .
I would say yes if Joe beats Bhop in a dramatic fashion.
PBF is there on talent and his resume. However he hasn't won many of those in dominating fashion. The goal is to beat the other guy senseless. He doesn't seem to want to fight, just to win a decision.
In my book PBF is a bit of an underachiever. Pac is there for his tenacity and his opposition has been by far the most difficult. But considering Joe's domination of Lacy, solid win over Kessler, then winning convincingly over Bhop would earn it in my book.
Mind you it's dependent on a stellar performance against another top rated guy. And as always it's temporary. I just have a little more regard for the guys that really go for broke. In my opinion it's what PBF has been missing, although we did see some of that in the Hatton fight.
One of the things that I think really hurts his chances at p4p is that he has only been a champion in one division.
Plus the supermiddleweight division is not the star studded division that say a welterweight or a middleweight is.
When did Joe destroy Kessler? I think he won fairly easily, but destroyed? Come on Bookkeeper, winning by 3 or 4 rounds is not destroying someone its just a win.
NO WAY! Floyd is still another level above Calzaghe, if Calzaghe beats Hopkins convincingly he deserves #2, but in terms of the p4p title I think that lacy was no where near the threat Hatton was to PBF in actuality, and that Lacy shouldn't count for much in hindsight, and though Kessler was a good fighter, he wasn't great. I think he will be a lot better in the future now that he knows what it takes, but Hopkins is the first great fighter Calzaghe has faced and he is 43... That has to be taken into consideration especially if he just outworks Hopkins, if Jermain Taylor has already done that then this will be nothing new except with Calzaghe pushing the fight more.
The other thing to take into account is that if PBF beats a 35 yr old ODLH at 147 thats as big an achievment as a win over 43 yr old BHOP.
Floyd has dominated PLENTY of his opposition, are you kidding?! The only guys of recent that he didn't dominate.. were the two JLC fights.. Oscar (SD).. Zab Judah is borderline.. and other than that he outclassed plenty of his opposition.. i think floyd has legitimately been hurt ONCE.. and that's not counting when he broke his hand.. i think it was corley who caught him with a shot and floyd fell into the ropes and was stunned for a minute, but then came right back.. if thats not dominating fashion then i don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Agreed. I think Luvfightgame needs to rewatch PBF v Corrales, Hatton, Gatti, Manfredy, Hernandez etc...... They are dominant performances over high quality opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33Floyd has dominated PLENTY of his opposition, are you kidding?! The only guys of recent that he didn't dominate.. were the two JLC fights.. Oscar (SD).. Zab Judah is borderline.. and other than that he outclassed plenty of his opposition.. i think floyd has legitimately been hurt ONCE.. and that's not counting when he broke his hand.. i think it was corley who caught him with a shot and floyd fell into the ropes and was stunned for a minute, but then came right back.. if thats not dominating fashion then i don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I got Calzaghe falling out the top 10 following his loss to Hopkins
I meant his big fights. He did with Corrales. He ko'd Hatton impressively also. I just have seen him barely win a fight and then call it "easy work". To me he coasts. I want to see some fire and him showing up big on his big fights. Joe has done that in spades. He comes out on his biggest fights and puts on his best performances. PBF hasn't had his best performances against his best opposition. That's where Joe edges him in my book IFFFFFFFF he beats Bhop convincingly. IFFFFF he shows up like he did against Lacy and has the performance of his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33Floyd has dominated PLENTY of his opposition, are you kidding?! The only guys of recent that he didn't dominate.. were the two JLC fights.. Oscar (SD).. Zab Judah is borderline.. and other than that he outclassed plenty of his opposition.. i think floyd has legitimately been hurt ONCE.. and that's not counting when he broke his hand.. i think it was corley who caught him with a shot and floyd fell into the ropes and was stunned for a minute, but then came right back.. if thats not dominating fashion then i don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleAgreed. I think Luvfightgame needs to rewatch PBF v Corrales, Hatton, Gatti, Manfredy, Hernandez etc...... They are dominant performances over high quality opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33Floyd has dominated PLENTY of his opposition, are you kidding?! The only guys of recent that he didn't dominate.. were the two JLC fights.. Oscar (SD).. Zab Judah is borderline.. and other than that he outclassed plenty of his opposition.. i think floyd has legitimately been hurt ONCE.. and that's not counting when he broke his hand.. i think it was corley who caught him with a shot and floyd fell into the ropes and was stunned for a minute, but then came right back.. if thats not dominating fashion then i don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
I responded to the other post but it addresses this also. Corrales, and Hatton I credit. But not his best performances on his biggest nights. Joe has so far. We'll see against Bhop.....
Mayweather has only had two close fight, and they were against Castillo... He did dominate Oscar in his own way, especially in the latter rounds it was a huge mismatch. Mayweather dominated Judah from the big left hand Zab landed early in the 4th to the end of hte fight... it was domination. Mayweather vs Gatti was domination. He broke down Corley in a dominating way. Gernaro Hernandez, Jesus Chavez, Baldomir, Hatton.
Corrales was 34-0 and a top 10 P4P guy when PBF fought him and FLoyd knocked him down 5 times. At that stage it was floyds biggest night and i'd say he performed pretty darn well.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by eagleAgreed. I think Luvfightgame needs to rewatch PBF v Corrales, Hatton, Gatti, Manfredy, Hernandez etc...... They are dominant performances over high quality opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33
I responded to the other post but it addresses this also. Corrales, and Hatton I credit. But not his best performances on his biggest nights. Joe has so far. We'll see against Bhop.....
The fight v DLH was huge, a much bigger night than Joe has evr seen and PBF easily outpoints a much bigger man.
Then fast forward to the Hatton fight. Another huge PPV event, PBF KO's a guy that many 'experts' said would beat him.
If thats not performing on big nights what is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleCorrales was 34-0 and a top 10 P4P guy when PBF fought him and FLoyd knocked him down 5 times. At that stage it was floyds biggest night and i'd say he performed pretty darn well.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I responded to the other post but it addresses this also. Corrales, and Hatton I credit. But not his best performances on his biggest nights. Joe has so far. We'll see against Bhop.....
The fight v DLH was huge, a much bigger night than Joe has evr seen and PBF easily outpoints a much bigger man.
Then fast forward to the Hatton fight. Another huge PPV event, PBF KO's a guy that many 'experts' said would beat him.
If thats not performing on big nights what is?
I usually don't agree with Eagle but this time I do, great points. Don't forget the shutout against Baldomir who many said PBF was ducking when signed on for the Judah fight
I can't believe people are actually saying Mayweather doesn't dominate his fights ?? he has dominated 95 percent of his fights the only fights that were somewhat competitive were his fights against Castillo, Chavez. And he doesn't dominate his opponents in impressive fashion huh ?? have you ever actually seen his fights against.
Arturo Gatti
Phillip Ndou
DeMarcus Corley
Genaro Hernandez
Angel Manfredy
Diego Corrales
Ricky Hatton
etc.
Ok maybe he doesn't KO all of them brutally like a young Mike Tyson used to do. But he still dominates his opponents and for anyone to say different hasn't seen a lot of his fights end of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleCorrales was 34-0 and a top 10 P4P guy when PBF fought him and FLoyd knocked him down 5 times. At that stage it was floyds biggest night and i'd say he performed pretty darn well.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by eagle
I responded to the other post but it addresses this also. Corrales, and Hatton I credit. But not his best performances on his biggest nights. Joe has so far. We'll see against Bhop.....
The fight v DLH was huge, a much bigger night than Joe has evr seen and PBF easily outpoints a much bigger man.
Then fast forward to the Hatton fight. Another huge PPV event, PBF KO's a guy that many 'experts' said would beat him.
If thats not performing on big nights what is?
I said Corrales was a big performance. Your opinion on ODH is hotly contested. I don't feel he did anything easily in that fight. I felt ODH actually gave the fight away.
I didn't say he gave poor performances, just that his best nights weren't on his biggest. Joe's has been. PBF left doubts in everyone's mind on ODH. If he administered a whooping like Joe did to Lacy, there wouldn't be any doubts. I am saying with a dominating performance against Bhop, it would be enough to edge Floyd "Pretty Safe" Mayweather......
Quote:
Originally Posted by eagleAgreed. I think Luvfightgame needs to rewatch PBF v Corrales, Hatton, Gatti, Manfredy, Hernandez etc...... They are dominant performances over high quality opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by RP33Floyd has dominated PLENTY of his opposition, are you kidding?! The only guys of recent that he didn't dominate.. were the two JLC fights.. Oscar (SD).. Zab Judah is borderline.. and other than that he outclassed plenty of his opposition.. i think floyd has legitimately been hurt ONCE.. and that's not counting when he broke his hand.. i think it was corley who caught him with a shot and floyd fell into the ropes and was stunned for a minute, but then came right back.. if thats not dominating fashion then i don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
IMO Joe beats Hopkins he deserves the nod over Floyd...Beating Kessler then stepping up to fight Hopkins is a bit more then a SD with DLH and a KO over a taylor made Hatton who is the naturally smaller man....
Lets not go counting Gatti because Gatti was also abused By Baldomir and Gomez with in his next few bouts...and was battle worn from years of abuse...I love Gatti but fact is fact...Corrales was 7 years ago and Manfredy 10 so if we want to go back that far and count those bouts shit SRR still holds the P4P title and Tyson is still the baddest man in boxing....
Mayweather is a great fighter and has earned his position but that does not mean it can not be taken over....Sorry but IMO fighting once a year and playing with the WWE cast does not mean you get to keep your P4P title just because you haven't lost...Gotta be more active...
Ok ICB,Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
How do you rate Gatti? I think I give Gatti more credit than just about anyone on this board. It's not that PBF doesn't ko them all, it's that at times he's content to sit on his lead. There's a huge difference in aggression and will to fight. It's his biggest shortfall other than his public personality. We are talking about if Joe deserves to replace PBF as "P4P". I say yes if he has a dominating performance. I see a big difference in that category. I am not talking "all time". I am saying current Joe would edge it in my book with that type of performance.
ALL TRUEQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
also how the hell is beating LACY - KESSLER - 43 YEAR OLD HOPKINS ,
a better resume than Mayweathers ?? i dont think its close.!!!
a better resume than PACMAN'S 3 fights with Morales / 2 with MAB / 2 with JMM , Calazghe's resume isnt even withing a light year of that ,
Joe is a very good fighter , proven - but hes now chasing the rainbows he should have been many years ago , hes wasted his good years for me.
Mayweather doesn't need to take unnecessary risks if he isn't forced to fight end of. I remember Roy Jones Jr saying the exact same thing as well. I don't know what you class as *dominating* but it can mean different things. Mayweather dominates in a different way, by not letting his opponent have any chance at offense, he takes away all there best weapons and outclasses his opponent in every category. I really don't see how people could have Calzaghe higher than Mayweather in P4P lists, could Calzaghe beat Mayweather P4P ?? no, has he got more achievements than Mayweather ?? not even close, has he beaten as many quality fighters as Mayweather ?? again not really even close IMO. So why should Calzaghe deserve to be higher P4P than Mayweather then ??Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameOk ICB,Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
How do you rate Gatti? I think I give Gatti more credit than just about anyone on this board. It's not that PBF doesn't ko them all, it's that at times he's content to sit on his lead. There's a huge difference in aggression and will to fight. It's his biggest shortfall other than his public personality. We are talking about if Joe deserves to replace PBF as "P4P". I say yes if he has a dominating performance. I see a big difference in that category. I am not talking "all time". I am saying current Joe would edge it in my book with that type of performance.
With me I feel Joe already is number 1 P4P.He has been fighting for how long and still undefeated.Also has never ducked anyone even fought an old Chris Eubank when he didn't have to and won.Robin Reid,Omar Sheika, in their prime.
If Calzaghe goes on to win against Hopkins imo he goes a very close second behind PBF.Pac man just squeezed my Marquez so aslong as Joe wins he moves past him. But if Calzaghe beats a top name after Hopkins (thats if he wins) ,and Floyd has a bad showing against De La Hoya i would have JC going to number1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBMayweather doesn't need to take unnecessary risks if he isn't forced to fight end of. I remember Roy Jones Jr saying the exact same thing as well. I don't know what you class as *dominating* but it can mean different things. Mayweather dominates in a different way, by not letting his opponent have any chance at offense, he takes away all there best weapons and outclasses his opponent in every category. I really don't see how people could have Calzaghe higher than Mayweather in P4P lists, could Calzaghe beat Mayweather P4P ?? no, has he got more achievements than Mayweather ?? not even close, has he beaten as many quality fighters as Mayweather ?? again not really even close IMO. So why should Calzaghe deserve to be higher P4P than Mayweather then ??Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameOk ICB,Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
How do you rate Gatti? I think I give Gatti more credit than just about anyone on this board. It's not that PBF doesn't ko them all, it's that at times he's content to sit on his lead. There's a huge difference in aggression and will to fight. It's his biggest shortfall other than his public personality. We are talking about if Joe deserves to replace PBF as "P4P". I say yes if he has a dominating performance. I see a big difference in that category. I am not talking "all time". I am saying current Joe would edge it in my book with that type of performance.
My take on "p4p" is that it's similar to the college football and basketball ratings. It can change week to week based on performances. Your right PBF doesn't need to take unnecessary risks to win some fights. But it's not the end of the story, cause he needs to take some risks if he wants to be the number 1 p4p guy in my book. It's all an opinion anyway. No real substance, just circumstances and opinions. Mine is that PBF is the legitimate holder right now, Pac is an extremely close 2nd. But Joe can jump ahead if he puts a severe beating on Bhop. I don't think it will even happen, but if it does Joe gets big credit in my book.
My idea of domination is a thorough beating. Not landing just a couple of more punches a round and having a higher landing percentage. I am talking about kicking somebodies ass..... Joe did it too Lacy, and that is what I am talking about. Probably one of the most lopsided beatings I have ever seen without there being a stoppage. PBF has the ability to do that, but he doesn't want to take a risk so he doesn't. It leaves him vunerable to being passed in the "ratings" by someone who does fight that way.....
Its all an opinion but I don't really personally think how you fight should be a part of deciding who's P4P. To me its simply accomplishments (some of it what have you done lately but also career wise) along with who just who you think is the best fighter. I'm a fan but not a huge JTRock type of PBF fan but I think he's the best fighter clearly and I doubt even the biggest Calzaghe fan would say career wise he's accomplished more and beaten better fighters than Floyd.
If he fights Hatton again I might just drop him out of spite