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.....if he had've stayed at LW or at moved up slowly rather than jumping straight up to WW. He's gotta be one of the greatest LWs ever anyway (what was he 31-0(29)??) But if he had've done things differently could be talking about a top 10 p4p of all time fighter? Could he still be unbeaten and p4p number 1? I think possibly 'Yes'
He had to move up he wasn't making weight anymore. He did fight some fights at 140 moving up. He IS great IMO, all time great.
ATG!!! i will not mind putting him alongside PAC as P4P number one right now:)
I think Mosleys win over Margarito was more impressive than Pacs win over oscar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavlik
The thing I like about Mosley is his willingness to take on anyone. Mosley is a real fighter. Even if he loses he jumps straight back in looking for the rematch. Classy guy, I wish more fighters had the approach Mosley has.
That perfermance was all class,he took on someone that had just come off the biggest win of his career and Mosley took him to bits won every round then stopped him you carnt get better than that.If Floyd was watching thats enough to keep him retired with that performance.
Agree, one of my faves but I wrote him off before last night as done. He's HoF no doubt, but IMO he does have flaws, and a fighter with a great jab and tight defense is his kryptonite. I don't think movinf up was his problem against Forrest and Winky, just styles that he would have always struggled with.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Mosley's one of my all time favourite's.
I had just re-watched his career before this fight and had him picked.
I think he may be similar to Lewis and Hagler in that a retrospective eye will allow him his due.
He was an ATG Lightweight. He's right up there with Duran, Chavez et al.
At Welter he also desreves a mention.
Great fighter, great guy
He is a great fighter. Very gifted, reminds me of Meldrick Taylor a bit but. I think he would have faired very well against any lightweight of any era. His loses were to guys with good jabs, which imo has always been his biggest weakness. Hes not hard to find with the jab. Margarito doesnt use his jab so that played right into Shanes hands. All around, Shane is an excellent fighter.
Not sure if he could of stayed unbeaten with Floyd Mayweather around, who at the lighter weights had a terrific jab which is one of Shane Mosley's biggest weaknesses, he's always struggled against fighters with good jabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Floyd Mayweather also had alot of pop and was as fast as Shane Mosley, not sure who would of won but it would of been a terrific fight. But other than Floyd Mayweather i can't really see anyone else at Lightweight really having a chance of beating him.
His toughest challenges would be Paul Spadaforda, Joel Casamayor, Jose Luis Castillo, i think Joel Casamayor would of gave him a tough fight. I don't think the others would of troubled him too much, but basically Joel Casamayor, Floyd Mayweather, would of been his toughest fights had he stayed at Lightweight.
I like Shane Mosley and he's an old school fighter who will fight anyone.
Class act all round :cool:
Rant coming....
In my book, the measure of a fighters greatest comes more from the quantity of wins and great performances against other great/very good fighters. If you fight the best out there consistently, you are bound to have an off night or come up against a matchup that is stylistic nightmare for you. Most fighters today are way over protected and over managed and it probably has something to do with the public being so fickle. Nowadays, having an 0 zero in the loss column is more important to many fans (and fighters) than seeing wins against best available competition. Lossing is unacceptable. They seem to think great fighters can't loose AT ALL, even to other very good fighters, and still be an ATG.
Cotto loses one fight and people are questioning if he's done. Hatton gets sparked by the one of the best fighters of our generation and he people were questioning him. Paul Williams lost once and he was exposed overhyped (seems he proven those people wrong). Pavlik loses to Hopkins and now Pavlik is overrated. Even David Haye...the guy was frickin unified CW champ with some real quality wins at CW and people still harp on the Thompson fight, and I promise, once he fights a good, big, HW and gets his ass beat, everybody will call him crap instead of just saying that he's a very good fighter who is little small to beat the biggest and best HWs. If fact, you're people call you a hater and get angry when you tell them their favorite fighter isn't the second coming of Benny Leonard, only better.
In or near there PRIMES - Duran lost to Benitez and Leonard. Leonard lost to Duran. Hearns lost to Hagler and Leonard, Frazier lost to Foreman, Foreman lost to Ali (an older Ali). Benitez lost to Hearns and Leonard. Arguello lost to Fernandez. Louis lost to Schmelling. etc, etc etc. Very, very few fighters who fight in stacked divisions (like Mosley has since leaving LW) can say they fought the best, toughest fights out there and came away without losing.
Rant over.
I guess he could have fought Kostya Tszyu instead of Oscar and assuming he could keep making that weight, stuck around 140 for a while, beating up on Urkal, Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Chop-Chop and Ricky Hatton. I can't imagine anybody other than Floyd having a chance against him at that weight. That would have been great career, too, and he may have ended up undefeated and considered the greatest LWW of all time. Imagine the prospect of Shane and Floyd fighting at 140, circa 2004-2005. Wow.
But even factoring in the losses, I'm not sure that would make him greater than moving all the way up from LW to become unified LMW champion and 2x WW champion, beating ODLH twice, demolishing Vargas, Mayorga, and (at age 37) Margarito - the most feared, avoided, and recognized #1 WW in an extremely deep WW division. If anything, he screwed himself up by following Oscar up to 154 and then deciding to defend those belt against Winky, then taking a second shot a Winky. He probably should have dropped back down to WW right after the second Oscar fight and fought Mayorga for the belts Vernon took from him.
And what if Floyd come out of retirement to fight Mosley and Mosley managed to pull that off? Could it get much greater than that?
Size wasn't the factor, it was Mosley inability to purely box, physically he was as strong as the big guys, he just doesn't know how to fight guys who can jab and are not mesmerized by his speed. also he was 28 or 29 when he left the LW division that isn't very young, he already had 32 fights, and there was really nobody in the division at the time worth fighting.
I think JLC gives Mosley a ton of trouble, he was a really big LW like Mosley, not as tall, but consistently came in at 147 pounds, he hits really hard, goes to the body well, much faster and more accurate version of Antoniono Margarito. IMO JLC is the missing link between JCC and AM.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBNot sure if he could of stayed unbeaten with Floyd Mayweather around, who at the lighter weights had a terrific jab which is one of Shane Mosley's biggest weaknesses, he's always struggled against fighters with good jabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Floyd Mayweather also had alot of pop and was as fast as Shane Mosley, not sure who would of won but it would of been a terrific fight. But other than Floyd Mayweather i can't really see anyone else at Lightweight really having a chance of beating him.
His toughest challenges would be Paul Spadaforda, Joel Casamayor, Jose Luis Castillo, i think Joel Casamayor would of gave him a tough fight. I don't think the others would of troubled him too much, but basically Joel Casamayor, Floyd Mayweather, would of been his toughest fights had he stayed at Lightweight.
Where did I say size was the factor or the reason he should have moved back down? He should have run back down to avoid fighting Winky Wright for exactly the reason you said. It would have been one thing if a guy like Vargas was his mandatory. He could have made a lucrative, very winnable fight against Mayorga. Duh...We know he was big enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Not that it would have mattered, but Mosley does have much better power at 147 than 154. He's a decent puncher at 154, but he has real power at 147. It's pretty clear that's a better weight for him.
He should have learned from the Forrest fights that a guy with a jab like Wright's was a nightmare for him. And he should have realized again after Winky beat him the first time and not gone back for a second go. Hubris was his downfall.
Mayorga was a better matchup for him and probably a more marketable fight. I'm sure if Shane had tried to make the fight happen, Mayorga would have defended against Mosley instead of Spinks. That would have been twice the money...Shane would have taken two less losses, beaten a younger, more feared Mayorga, and not gotten stuck in the boxing wilderness for a few years. How much better would his resume look if you replaced two losses to Wright with a KO win over Mayorga?